|
Post by Chris on Jan 4, 2013 20:08:58 GMT
Before someone decides to jump down my throat I am in no way being critical of what is a superb!! means of communication, an information board and a way of publicising.
I go on here fairly regularaly.
Even I though may not go on for one or two weeks and therefore miss personal messages and deadlines. Which I appear to have recently due to family holidays and being away. First time I have been on since 30th December.
I may miss a thread, not keep up with other boards. I cannot know what I don't know ::)
Sav asked for SECRETARIES lists from each league. I would propose that this list is sent to each league secretary with emails and that any event is emailed to each and the forum is not relied upon.
I have the emails of all of the Portsmouth Teams and can pass info to them and do. If it came through on email as Tony Willis does I can send it on.
This is meant as a supportive, lets help spread the events further as we need to not just do it via the board, but just also put on the board! :-* :-* :-* Happy New Year :-*
Sav though has a lot to answer to... my oldest grandson now wants to know why Father Christmas appears more than once and chucks out presents loads of times and then why he went and the fireworks came !!` Yes the mind of a 3 year old... Thinking of taking him to Bournemouth and letting Sav sort it.. It will take him all weekend as he is at the why stage !! ;D :o ;D
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2013 21:06:58 GMT
Not meaning to jump down your throat Chris, and Margo and I both wish you and Chris a Happy New Year. Just to say that the Forum is already not the sole information medium as there are many conscientious people maintaining information websites for individual leagues - on top of the very informative AEBBA website and the SCBBA (Sussex) website.
Most of the information you seek is already available out there, at the click of a button.
Were you aware you can easily take a print of all the forthcoming National and County events by viewing the Forum Calendar (middle choice on the menu at the top of this page) and clicking on "View All Calendar Events" ? These correspond with the 'events for the month' listed at the foot of the Forum welcome page.
These are repeated on most of the Individual Leagues' websites, as well as on the Sussex one.
We have eight active websites in Sussex, all holding archives of past events and champions dating back 50 years or so : Sounds like you could do with having one for Portsmouth. ;)
Regards,
tommo
|
|
|
Post by Chris_Sav on Jan 5, 2013 11:15:08 GMT
Sav though has a lot to answer to... my oldest grandson now wants to know why Father Christmas appears more than once and chucks out presents loads of times and then why he went and the fireworks came !!` Yes the mind of a 3 year old... Thinking of taking him to Bournemouth and letting Sav sort it.. It will take him all weekend as he is at the why stage !! ;D :o ;D I love kids, just can't eat a whole one!! Remind me to take a nice bar of Ex-Lax chocolate for him just before I hand him back!! ;D ;D Sav
|
|
|
Post by BB Warrior on Jan 5, 2013 11:19:06 GMT
Good points made here by both Chris and Tommo, which I think are worthy of further discussion. 8-) Tommo is quite right to say..... Just to say that the Forum is already not the sole information medium as there are many conscientious people maintaining information websites for individual leagues - on top of the very informative AEBBA website and the SCBBA (Sussex) website. Most of the information you seek is already available out there, at the click of a button. .... but ONLY if you know where to look and you can be bothered to search for it! ::) The Forum (and local websites) are without doubt great sources of information about the game, but I know of many players who hardly ever look at them and they rely either on team mates to let them know about events / competitions or receiving emails about them.... which is the point that Chris is making.... Even I though may not go on for one or two weeks and therefore miss personal messages and deadlines. Which I appear to have recently due to family holidays and being away. First time I have been on since 30th December. I may miss a thread, not keep up with other boards. I cannot know what I don't know ::) .... and I have to agree with her that it is very easy to miss a thread, even when you are a regular visitor to the Forum. :-/ I think that it would be a very good idea for some sort of "database" to be set up with contact information for players around the country, whether that is initially along the lines of.... Sav asked for SECRETARIES lists from each league. I would propose that this list is sent to each league secretary with emails and that any event is emailed to each and the forum is not relied upon. I have the emails of all of the Portsmouth Teams and can pass info to them and do. If it came through on email as Tony Willis does I can send it on. .... or whether we find somebody willing to take on a central role to set this up and then send the information out to everybody about the Tournaments and other events that go on during each year. ;) A few months ago I raised the question about how do non-members of the Forum find out information about Tournaments.... it proved a bit controversial at the time although in many respects it was another way of saying the same thing that Chris has here. ;D Pretty much as a result of that, I recently experimented by emailing out entry forms for the Sussex Competitions and the additional 6 players (none of whom I believe have ever taken part before) that have entered this year has shown me that perhaps "other means of communication" can make a difference to entries for competitions. 8-) To the best of my knowledge, none of these 6 players are members of the Forum, although I know that they do come on here occasionally.... I don't know if any of them ever look at the local websites. :-/ Perhaps Sussex is slightly different to other parts of the country, we have so many different Leagues and each League seems to have it's own way to provide results and information.... ::) Of the Leagues in Sussex that I have played in.... Brighton.... results, tables and averages all on the website, but most communication is on the Forum and nothing about national comps. Lewes.... website and forum, competitions emailed to contacts. Horsham.... website, forum and weekly results letter, but nothing about national comps. Mid-Sussex.... website, forum and weekly results, nothing about national comps apart from on website. West Sussex.... email sent to contacts with weekly results, nothing about national comps except on website. Worthing.... website, forum and a regular newsletter to Captains which includes both Sussex and national comps, but I know that a lot of players never see the newsletters - myself included! ::) I know that Billingshurst, Eastbourne and Hastings all have websites.... but I don't know if they also send out any information to the players in those Leagues and I don't know how Littlehampton keep their players up to date.... ??? So, at present, I think that the ONLY way that 90% of players within Sussex find out information about Competitions is either from the Forum or by word of mouth from team mates.... :o .... but maybe that is different in other parts of the country? :-/ Personally, I think that if competition organisers email entry forms out to all known contacts and ask them to formward them on to people that they know would be a good way to start.... most players have access to email and are probably more likely to enter something if it is made easy for them by having the information sent directly to them rather than having to look for it. ;D ;D ;D
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2013 12:10:31 GMT
I have read your message, Dave, with interest, but am also having to read between the lines as well, as until this moment in time I haven't been aware of a problem with communication.
Much has been said in the past about information 'cascading down' from the top, down to grass roots level....AEBBA down to County Secretaries, then down to League Secretaries, finally down to team captains and their players.
AFAIAA lines of communication have improved dramatically in recent years, aided considerably by the popping up of league websites all over the place. In Sussex for instance Hastings have had a regeneration in interest and their players seem well informed on what is going on. As you say, though. Littlehampton could do with one, especially as the West-Sussex one seems to have become stagnant since Steve A (aka Hon Chair) moved away a few years ago.
I am left wondering as to whether there are any specific instances where things could have been 'done better'? Certainly in the leagues I play in (Horsham and Billingshurst) communication is excellent, with weekly newsletters from the Secretaries which are both emailed out and put up for display on the websites, and also separate ad hoc messages for anything of extra importance.
Not every single player in a team is contactable by eMail, of course, there are many I can name who don't even own a computer, but an accepted requisite seems to be that the team captains are computer literate and it's then up to them to pass on any snippets filtering down from above.
|
|
|
Post by barbelman on Jan 5, 2013 12:24:05 GMT
Communication is always a problem in Bar Billiards and whatever way one chooses to do it it has to be electronically - post is just an expensive no-no. Chrissie makes a very good point in that lots of people are not regular lookers-in on the Forum (I can't understand why? ;D) and some counties hardly seem to be represented at all on here.
I do think this is an opportunity for the Forum to be useful to the community as a whole and to get a little positive publicity amongst non-members.
Let's get a database of recipients together and mail them information and an entry form for every competition this year and see if it makes any difference to entries.
Subject to consent from Dave Alder and the AEBBA committee for their competitions, and as I am an idle bu**er now, I would be willing to give this a try for one year as a test under the umbrella of the British Bar Billiards Forum/AEBBA.
I have North of the Thames and Pompey covered with my Inter Area mailing list but would need some info from the southern counties and our friends in the East to make it comprehensive. The more names the merrier and I can put an opt-out sentence at the end of each mailing if people find it irritating.
I would suggest a period of 2 months before each competition apart from the ones that require accommodation and travel and as Dave and Chris have intimated it would STILL be very dependant on Secretaries and Webmasters disseminating the information to all their members although, as I said, there is no limit to the names that could be added right down to ordinary team members.
I will await reaction from AEBBA officers and anyone else!
Tony
|
|
|
Post by Chris_Sav on Jan 5, 2013 12:59:24 GMT
Let's get a database of recipients together and mail them information and an entry form for every competition this year and see if it makes any difference to entries. I will await reaction from AEBBA officers and anyone else!Tony I'm new to the job, but that's why I am harvesting email addresses on the Bournemouth entry forms 8-) 8-) Sav
|
|
|
Post by davejones on Jan 5, 2013 22:20:56 GMT
Worthing.... website, forum and a regular newsletter to Captains which includes both Sussex and national comps, but I know that a lot of players never see the newsletters - myself included! ::) Team captains should bring the Black Peg newsletter to matches it is not just for them. Ask them to bring it to matches. Plus it is on the Worthing website!
|
|
|
Post by BB Warrior on Jan 6, 2013 11:06:16 GMT
I have read your message, Dave, with interest, but am also having to read between the lines as well, as until this moment in time I haven't been aware of a problem with communication. I don't think that either Chris or myself are saying that there is a "problem" with communication.... only that perhaps MORE could be done to spread the word and ensure that as many people as possible find out about competitions at national & regional levels in addition to their own local Leagues. ;) I would agree entirely with this statement.... AFAIAA lines of communication have improved dramatically in recent years, aided considerably by the popping up of league websites all over the place. .... as far as those people that regularly visit the Forum, or the local websites that have the dates for National Competitions and an easy way for players to find out about these and download entry forms if they want to. ;) But, how often do we read on here about people, often regular members, who didn't realise that there was a calendar of events here on the Forum.... I can't think of several recent instances ::) ....and does everybody know that there is a link from here to the AEBBA Website and Entry Forms for competitions are on there? Probably most of the regular Forum members know that, but that still leaves a lot of players that don't know about it.... :-/ As far as.... I am left wondering as to whether there are any specific instances where things could have been 'done better'? Certainly in the leagues I play in (Horsham and Billingshurst) communication is excellent, with weekly newsletters from the Secretaries which are both emailed out and put up for display on the websites, and also separate ad hoc messages for anything of extra importance. .... I am certainly not being critical of the excellent work carried out by many individuals in any of the local Leagues, where certainly LOCAL information is regularly provided to players. BUT.... using Horsham as an example as Tommo has quoted them.... I have never seen any information in the weekly newsletters about competitions outside of the Horsham League itself, although the website does have a nice calendar of events showing these and points out that the entry forms will be available on the AEBBA Website. 8-) But, you are still relying on players going to find the information.... rather than making life easy for them by giving them the details and everything that they need. Perhaps it is just a sign of "modern culture", but it often seems to me that many people now just wait until everything is handed on a plate to them.... ::) I agree entirely that.... Not every single player in a team is contactable by eMail, of course, there are many I can name who don't even own a computer, but an accepted requisite seems to be that the team captains are computer literate and it's then up to them to pass on any snippets filtering down from above. .... and it does mean that the people who care most about the future of the game have a "responsibility" to ensure that more people hear about the competitions and encourage them to take part. 8-) Having given more thought to the idea of a "central database", I do wonder whether it would be better to have one person who ensures that all of the entry forms are put on the Forum and AEBBA Website and who then sends these out to "regional" contacts around the country who then pass them on to members of the Leagues that they play in..... The reason that I suggest this would be better is simple.... how often do you receive "junk mail" and delete an email from somone that you don't know? I do it all the time if I don't recognise the sender.... whereas if I know the person then I will usually read it. So if Tony (Barbelman) is prepared to take the "central" role on for a year, I am sure that he can work with Sav to ensure that the information is both on the Forum and the AEBBA Website..... 8-) I would be more than happy to send out copies of entry forms to the contacts that I have within Sussex that include Lewes, Horsham and West Sussex.... ;D .... and perhaps some of the following could cover the areas that they are based in.... Sussex Billingshurst & Mid-Sussex.... Tommo? ???? ::) Brighton.... Nigel S? Worthing.... Dave Jones 8-) Eastbourne & Hastings.... Gandalf? Littlehampton....?? Oxon & Bucks.... Tony W? (Inter Area Contacts?) Berks.... Dave A or Tony W? Northants.... Elsie? Hampshire.... Chrissie N? Surrey.... Gary Powell (Magners) or Richard Plaw? Kent Tunbridge Wells.... Pete S? Medway.... Curt D or Gerry F? Dover & Deal.... Sav? Not wishing to "Army Volunteer" any of the above.... ;D .... but let's give it a try and see what happens?
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2013 11:45:23 GMT
Billingshurst & Mid-Sussex.... Tommo? Chrissie - what have you started? >:( ;D ;D ;D Dave - while your enthusiasm which is second to none is to be admired, I (probably like many others) already feel I do enough to 'spread the word'. What you have suggested is really a job for each individual League Secretary.....I don't really want to step on anybody's toes, and I feel already have a good working arrangement with these people, and they hopefully don't feel that the websites impinge too much on their responsibilities. Tony (Barbelman) has volunteered to cascade the information down from 'on high' and will be equipped with the required contact details for these delegates. Let's bite his hand off and give that a go! ;D
|
|
|
Post by bigtj on Jan 6, 2013 12:06:46 GMT
Agree that we should take Tonys kind offer, but think that there is no harm whilst we try and promote the game that things get duplicated at local level. We are lucky with some excellent web sites, but as Dave has mentioned no mmatter how hard you try some people need spoon feeding, and others will always think leave it to others.
I do e-mail Sussex Comps to all my contacts and ask that they in turn cascade to others on their respective contacts base as this seems to have worked well as we are mainataining a good level of entries.
We do also have to remember that these are still hard times financially for many, and it sometimes can be this rather than not wanting to support. Also there are a lot of grass roots players who know their standard and are happy enough just to go along on a league night and enjoy themselves with no other commitment. Both Brighton and Worthing run competitions for the lower divisions, but that along with the main competitions are less supported thatn they used to be. This again is due to many circumstances, among which are less players/teams, a feeling that they maybe only cannon fodder for other players ( and yes I know all about the aguements about improve your game).
League secretaries are all keen people and I am sure they do their utmost to cascade news locally, but as Dave Jones has said some captains are guilty of not passing on information (i.e. black peg newsletter). Also there is the assumption that all have access to the inter net and are also competent in using this tool, I for one am very novicy when it comes to a lot of functions.
The enthusiasm shown by some is commendable but there will always be those who see it as social evening with a few mates ( and leagues survive on this), also although we are seeing a percentage of young blood, not many of these are becoming involved with the running of the leagues. As our average age is probably on the older rather than younger side I would also suggest that some are coming to the end of their careers and are winding down and do not have the same get up and go they used to.
|
|
|
Post by Chris on Jan 6, 2013 16:21:49 GMT
I don't think that either Chris or myself are saying that there is a "problem" with communication.... only that perhaps MORE could be done to spread the word and ensure that as many people as possible find out about competitions at national & regional levels in addition to their own local league''
Exactly Dave ;D ;D :D
Chrissie - what have you started?
Sorry Clive :-*
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2013 17:15:24 GMT
As our average age is probably on the older rather than younger side I would also suggest that some are coming to the end of their careers and are winding down and do not have the same get up and go they used to. How true! I think my "get up and go" just got up and went. ;D I can't help but reflect on how, while everyone else seems to have been battling away as normal, by Wednesday I'll have had three glorious weeks without any competitive bar billiards. 8-) 8-) 8-)
|
|
|
Post by gandalf the untidy on Jan 6, 2013 23:22:23 GMT
Hi All
Reckon AEBBA should forward National events diary to affilieated County Secretaries, County secretaries should add this to the county event diary and pass on to affiliated league secretaries who should then pass the whole shooting match via League AGMs to ALL registered teams (provided there is time to forward the info prior to all agms)
Job Done ;D
Then the hard bit is for someone in each league to take the trouble to remind and re remind players when events are up for registration. sometimes i do wonder if its all worth it :'( :'(
regs cs
|
|
|
Post by BB Warrior on Jan 7, 2013 9:25:30 GMT
Hi All Reckon AEBBA should forward National events diary to affilieated County Secretaries, County secretaries should add this to the county event diary and pass on to affiliated league secretaries who should then pass the whole shooting match via League AGMs to ALL registered teams (provided there is time to forward the info prior to all agms) Job Done ;D Good idea.... in principle.... apart from the fact that most League AGM's are held in the summer by which time the National Tournaments are more than half way through. ::) Tommo..... Billingshurst & Mid-Sussex.... Tommo? Chrissie - what have you started? >:( ;D ;D ;D Dave - while your enthusiasm which is second to none is to be admired, I (probably like many others) already feel I do enough to 'spread the word'. .... I am sorry that I suggested you as somone who could have been one of the contacts for this, but with your position running the websites for Billingshurst, Horsham and Mid-Sussex I thought that you would have been the ideal person with all of the contacts within that area.... I agree that you have done a great deal to spread the word about the game already. 8-) I do however think that you are missing the point that I was making.... ::) [What you have suggested is really a job for each individual League Secretary.....I don't really want to step on anybody's toes, and I feel already have a good working arrangement with these people, and they hopefully don't feel that the websites impinge too much on their responsibilities. .... the League Secretaries do a great job within their own local Leagues.... BUT.... as I have previously pointed out, most of them do not provide any information about the national competitions to their players which is why I was suggesting that the "regional contacts" should be players who either regularly enter the competitions themselves or have a real interest in the game.... ;D IMHO, direct contact to the players themselves is the best way to try to promote the national competitions and I have now sent out copies of the entry forms for the Oxon Open, Bournemouth Pairs and the National Off the Spot Competitions to all of the contacts that I have within Sussex and I will forward any entry forms for future tournaments to both them and Barbelman in the hope that it will mean more entries for these competitions. ;) If there are any other players who would like to be added to the list of recipients for these, please contact me and I will be pleased to send the forms to you as well. ;D Sadly, as far as this discussion on here is concerned, I think that it is time that I joined this camp.... sometimes i do wonder if its all worth it :'( :'( .... and said nothing more about it! :o :-X :-X :-X
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2013 11:06:52 GMT
You sound a bit upset Dave, and I am sorry if I have caused this. But your idea amounts to appointing 'regional managers' and at this stage in my life I am not prepared to carry any such responsibility.
Whatever next - weekly seminars to check current progress and realign existing targets? ::) 'Matrix management' (too many bosses) was what did me in at work: I am just about beginning to rebuild my life again. ::)
As for yourself, don't throw the towel in so quickly, it's only me who is being apathetic on this one....Give the scheme a chance to fly first. Though I suspect that the increased yield in competition entries for Opens will be minimal, and unlikely to justify all the great extra effort put in. :-/
|
|
|
Post by davejones on Jan 7, 2013 16:10:12 GMT
I Worthing.... Tony Jenner and / or SirKT? I do not mind being Worthing's contact as the Black Peg is my baby
|
|
|
Post by BB Warrior on Jan 8, 2013 8:07:57 GMT
I do not mind being Worthing's contact as the Black Peg is my baby Thanks Dave, that's great. 8-) I have just emailed you copies of the entry forms for Oxon, AEBBA Pairs and National Off the Spot Competitions, if you could forward these to your contacts in Worthing that would be brilliant. ;D
|
|
|
Post by BB Warrior on Jan 10, 2013 23:30:05 GMT
Nice to see some additional competition entries already as a result of my emails..... ;D Cheque in post for colin southouse from eastbourne Cheque in post for Colin Southouse and Chris Haynes from eastbourne regs cs Let's hope that by sending the information out to people it will create more interest in the future. ;)
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2013 0:10:30 GMT
Nice to see some additional competition entries already as a result of my emails..... ;D Cheque in post for colin southouse from eastbourne Cheque in post for Colin Southouse and Chris Haynes from eastbourne regs cs Let's hope that by sending the information out to people it will create more interest in the future. ;) LOL - Are you taking the credit for this one as well ? Re: East Anglian 4-Pin OPEN 2013? cheque in post for Colin Southouse Eastbourne Scared?
|
|
|
Post by BB Warrior on Jan 11, 2013 18:11:05 GMT
LOL - Are you taking the credit for this one as well ? Re: East Anglian 4-Pin OPEN 2013? cheque in post for Colin Southouse Eastbourne Scared? No.... I only sent out entry forms for Oxon, Bournemouth and the National Off the Spot as they were the only ones that I had available. ;D I am pleased to say that I received several email replies thanking me for sending the forms out.... three of which said that they would forward them on to other people who were not on my contact list. 8-) I have also received requests from a couple of players in Mid-Sussex and Billingshurst asking me to add their email addresses to my list (which I am obviously more than happy to do) so hopefully they will be able to forward them on to other people in those areas as well as I do not have contact details there. ;D ;D ;D PS. Tommo, if you want to send me an entry form for the East Anglian 4-Pin Competition which you are promoting so well I will happily forward it on.... life is a bit busy here sorting out the Sussex Comps at the moment for me to have to hunt around for it! ::) ;D
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2013 19:10:09 GMT
PS. Tommo, if you want to send me an entry form for the East Anglian 4-Pin Competition which you are promoting so well I will happily forward it on.... life is a bit busy here sorting out the Sussex Comps at the moment for me to have to hunt around for it! ::) ;D All five entry forms which have been issued so far for Opens in 2013 are available here: www.aebba.org.uk/a_entry_forms.shtmlWas merely suggesting that Gandalf is not new to the circuit and would probably have been entering anyway ! ;D
|
|
|
Post by BB Warrior on Jan 11, 2013 22:01:02 GMT
All five entry forms which have been issued so far for Opens in 2013 are available here: www.aebba.org.uk/a_entry_forms.shtmlWas merely suggesting that Gandalf is not new to the circuit and would probably have been entering anyway ! ;D Not very impressed with a couple of recent comments.... >:( .... however as I can find no record of Gandalf playing Oxon in the last 5 years perhaps I will simply suggest that perhaps he might not have been entering anyway.... :-X I would like to thank Gandalf for forwarding my email on to other people with the following message.... See attached comp entry forms, please ensure that you discuss with all your players asap and compile a list of those wishing to participate, so that we can arrange transport and approriate payments in good time ( ...which means January) regards Colin Southouse.... which is exactly the sort of effort we need to try to get more people to play in the competitions. 8-) I am sure that there is somebody who will happily promote the 4-Pin Comp.... ::) .... and if I receive it as an email I will happily forward it on! ;D
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2013 23:34:58 GMT
I am sure that there is somebody who will happily promote the 4-Pin Comp.... ::) .... and if I receive it as an email I will happily forward it on! ;D After a stuttering start, entry for the 4-Pin appears now to be going along swimmingly: Some big names have come forward and there are now just 11 away places left. I would imagine that Carl is delighted with the response, and the competition could end up being over-subscribed !
|
|