League Improvements

[GBGuernsey]

We need to think about a league shake up.  Certain players have expressed concerns about playing each week and not enjoying watching better players play for 10 plus mins, there is no fun in that.

Currently, we have a league of five teams, five players each.

Lets say the league consists of teams of three, but you play a double game!

Both players then have the break!

We would have more games played, more teams and probably more players would be interested in coming back.

I mean lets face it.  You turn up, watch a good player knock in 10k then go home, whats the fun in that.  

My way round, teams of three and double games means you watch a good player knocking in 10K, still knowing you will get your own chance to play in the next game.

I would say we do the draw as normal.  Say A V B, if B wins the first game that’s 1 point.  The score is then zeroed back level so its not accumulating therefore next game means only 1 point and I don’t think that a player wining both games should get a bonus point.

Worth a try to improve the league standings.

Also, if we create mini teams, we could end up with 10+ teams, so I would suggest a Div 1 & Div 2 so the learning players don’t get hammered each week.

As a committee, we need to think about this for the good of the game, the above may not be the best solution but we need to put ideas together to generate interest and not scare players away.

Any comments would be appreciated.

[The Bullet]

HI GBG

Good idea, I tried to push for this a couple of years ago but was there was little interest at the time..

I'm sure now that a couple of teams have dropped out due to the fact that they where fed up watching some of us knock in 10k plus breaks the format would be supported.  

I for one would fully support a "triples" league, either the current league changing to three a side or a new league running along side and possibly played on a Monday.

The idea certainly warrants further discussion.

[GBGuernsey]

Hi BC,

thanks for the support, its good to have a reply either for or against, i see some members have read this without commenting.

The idea of this thread is to stimulate thought and share ideas for improvements. If players dont say anything then you wont be heard.

come on lads, share ideas.

[oge]

Hi Guys

In theory this sounds very good however i am concerned that all it will do is reduce the league by 2/5.

As 3 players head off to play in a team what happens to the other 2. my opnion is that most of them will either give up or become the reserve team player for their mates.

I do though fully support some debate on improving things. A handicap system with either all opening breaks or points head start. (I accept this could be hard to justify though).

Maybe run 2 league like Bob suggests however i would do it differently. The season to start at the begining of September 3 aside. (as per Gary) and run through for say 10 weeks.

Then start a 5 aside league as per now for the remaining season. This would prevent us from having to play each other 4 times.

It would count as 2 seperate leagues with a finals night a presentations for each.

[Chris_Sav]

Couple of points you should consider from an outsider.

1) Publicans, six people attending for an evening is a drop in revenue for the landlord and you may still expect food.

2) We have tried a lot of formats down here to try to attract more new players and none of them do. The only success we feel we have had is by playing singles and pairs in league matches, however the stronger players will resist this initially. Four a side with four singles and two pairs gives all two games on the night which is far preferable to all who have played it here. You can blood a new player in the pairs more easily for him without embarassment.

3) Weaker players have a chance with the break in one-leggers and that's what league play has always been about, just because players are good does not give them a right to win every week.

4) Whenever you promote change the outcome will be contentious and you need to proceed carefully and democratically.

A few thoughts from a wise old bird

Sav

[The Bullet]

Hi Sav

Thanks for your comments.

As GBG says the more suggestions and comments we have will help us when and if we sit down to look at the long term future of the game in Guernsey.

[GBGuernsey]

Great stuff wise old Bird!

BC is right, we need comments / advice like that to make the right changes.

I can comment as follows;

1 - Publicans - good point loss of revinue is key, although i hope to maintain the numbers of players. So although there may only be 6 players each night, there should be more game nights being played. Hopefully the revenues wont drop but the frequency of games will increase - we currently have four venues and five teams, meaning one team does not play each week and only two venues are used. This change would see all venues being used each week. so publicans may be happier.

2 - im not sure i fuly understand the idea of singles / pairs in a match, sounds promising would you be good enough to give a little more detail?

3 - some weeks, weaker players dont get the break, the proposed change would mean they get a break every week.

4 - good point, any further tips on this would be appreciated.

There has been some concern expressed about changing the league and its the players who should decide this but if the players dont speak up then nothing will happen.

Mar 31, 2011 14:09:35 GMT GBGuernsey said:

2 - im not sure i fuly understand the idea of singles / pairs in a match, sounds promising would you be good enough to give a little more detail?

If you need a couple of pointers on how to use players in a three-a-side match.....................

1. One of the Oxfordshire leagues plays 3 singles, then the same 3 singles again with the breaks reversed - seemingly to good effect.

2. If you wish to bring doubles into the frame, the Redhill Summer League used this system:  player a) plays player a); player b) plays player b); player c) plays player c)  (=Three singles);  then a + b Vs a + b; b + c Vs b + c; and finally c + a Vs c + a (=Three doubles).

To make up the shortfall in the landlord's revenue, you Guernsey boys will really have to push the boat out and increase your alcohol consumption!  (Is that possible ?) ;D   Sav makes a good point about food being arranged just for six persons, though.

[GBGuernsey]

great stuff tommo, many thanks.

we only get food at two out of four venues but again, less players less food required. Us Guernsey boys can increase the fuel consumption easy, but eating twice the going rate is more for Jersey players.

[The Bridesmaid]

how about 4 aside and you play home and away twice, for singles you play every player in the other team over the 4 weeks so no excuse for not playing weaker or stronger players.
i think our rankings is a good idea but you dont get a true reading on how good you really are as you may miss the better players when drawn on the night.
maybe some sort of doubles matches could also be done as you can have 2 matches and no player will miss out.
i`ve not put a lot of thought into how this may work out points wise but maybe someone could add or modify this somehow......

[Sir Chancelot]

I applaud Gary's apparent concern, although the same concerns were raised and brought to the attention of the GBBA last season by two of the lower ranked teams who have since disbanded.
With the Nomads pulling out this season also we have lost an unprecedented 3 teams, which has reduced the league to under 30 registered players.
All we will end up with if this continues is a bunch of sad old men awarding each other Island places and trophies year after year without any competition. (Sounds familiar ?)
So we all agree that some radical steps have to be made to save the game of Bar Billiards in Guernsey. Here are a few suggestions;
1 -Any player beating a lower ranked player will be deducted 1,000 points from his next league game.
2 - When playing a lower ranked player, the higher ranked player will not have the advantage of the red ball counting double.
3 - All players selected to play International matches for Guernsey will play the following season's league matches with the white pegs counting as black pegs. Therfore if they knock down the white during their break, they forfeit all their scores.
4 - If a lower ranked player is on the table when the bar drops, and has the break and is behind, they should have the opportunity to put another coin into the table to continue their break after the bar has dropped.
5 - If a player looses five consecutive matches, the sixth match will be scored on the basis that the white as well as the red balls count as double scores.
6 - If a lower ranked player knocks down more than three white pegs during the course of a game, the fourth peg he knocks down will count as a black peg for his opponent, and his opponents score will be wiped off the scoreboard.
7 - If a higher ranked player plays the same lower ranked player twice in one season, the lower ranked player should have a 5K score advantage and the opening break.
8 - Any higher ranked player should be made to consume as much alcohol as his lower ranked opponent. That would give Mace's team an advantage and swell the takings at the Rangers Club for Darren Ogier.
9 - Any Guernsey league players who do not support and enter the Guernsey Open should be made to enter and attend the Guernsey Chess open the following year.
10 - Any committee members awarding themselves more than one trophy per season, should go on a compulsory re-cycling class and give a talk on the subject during the first league match in the following season.

[GBGuernsey]

Stormin,

I think the only aspect you are missing is asking good players to play left handed when facing weaker opposition!

I also think these proposals are too complicated. How do you define a strong or weak player? And what about the players who are mid table, they wont get such benefits / disadvantages and how will players be able to keep track of all these changes.

I think simple changes are the best. Champ has a good proposal to reduce to 4 players per team, Tom mentioned last night its was like that before but we still need to protect the weaker players from playing strong players and becoming disinterested.

If we have 30 players, three aside means 10 teams. 10 teams means we have 2 leagues. I also believe this change will attract new players to start in the lower league and give the added incentive to be promoted, and the fear of being relegated!

I do like your thought process about the white pegs counting as blacks, red and white balls etc but these change the fundamental game rules which may take our game away from the way other leagues play and we could end up playing a variation of the game. Im against that.

I would prefer to focus on a league setup change. If we stay as we are, there is a threat that we will lose another team this year. I have my fingers crossed the Nomads will return next season as they have been missed and if we change the setup to a system which protects lower strength teams from facing 5-0 beatings each week then I would think we wont lose a team this year but gain one.

Any other thoughts are appreciated, keep them coming.

GBGuernsey.

I don't think Stormin' was being serious, Gary. ;)
Check the date on your calendar..........

[GBGuernsey]

really? you wont believe the stuff Stormin is coming up with these days, its hard to tell, Tommo.

what date are you talking about? thats very cryptic of you.

[oge]

I think we should add a trophy to the best weak player of the season along with the best weak team and the best weak pairs.

That way it would be made worth while for the weak players to turn up.

[Sir Chancelot]

Apr 1, 2011 14:34:44 GMT GBGuernsey said:

really? you wont believe the stuff Stormin is coming up with these days, its hard to tell, Tommo.

what date are you talking about? thats very cryptic of you.

April 1st - .................................Fool ::)

[GBGuernsey]

aha i see, childs play is not my speciality.

i like darrens idea about best weak player, that would mean stormin has a chance at a trophy. ;)



[edit - 'smiley' added so's not to cause offence]

[The Bridesmaid]

i`m off to the re-cycling tomorrow to make some space on my shelf for some more trophies.
:-)