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Post by Chris_Sav on Oct 31, 2011 18:25:07 GMT
I'm copying those posts across from the draws thread as it's become messy.
Sav
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Post by Chris_Sav on Oct 31, 2011 18:26:44 GMT
One question - can three players progress from one group? (In one group 3 players could end up with 2 wins or 6 points)
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Post by Chris_Sav on Oct 31, 2011 18:27:57 GMT
looking at seans comments nigel i dont think that is happening as he says the 22 best runner ups. Maybe i am wrong but that is how i read it.
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Post by Chris_Sav on Oct 31, 2011 18:29:00 GMT
One question - can three players progress from one group? (In one group 3 players could end up with 2 wins or 6 points) The rule also states.... Quote; Players who finish 3rd or 4th within their group will automatically be put in the Plate draw on the Sunday.
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Post by Chris_Sav on Oct 31, 2011 18:29:56 GMT
Hi, In response to Nigel S' question, which I'm aware has already been clarified. Groups will be decided on firstly Points, followed by, Average, Highest individual score in any game, head to head and then finally toss of a coin. To clarify, 3 players will not qualify from one individual group, the only players who do have a chance are the group winners (automatically) and 22 best second places, these being decided as per the groups (excluding head to head obviously). Any further questions, please let me know. Cheers Sean
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Post by Chris_Sav on Oct 31, 2011 18:30:39 GMT
wont there be a runner up from every group then?
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Post by Chris_Sav on Oct 31, 2011 18:31:23 GMT
Hi, In response to Nigel S' question, which I'm aware has already been clarified. Groups will be decided on firstly Points, followed by, Average, Highest individual score in any game, head to head and then finally toss of a coin. To clarify, 3 players will not qualify from one individual group, the only players who do have a chance are the group winners (automatically) and 22 best second places, these being decided as per the groups (excluding head to head obviously). Any further questions, please let me know. Cheers Sean Hi Sean, really looking forward to this year`s competition. One question i`d like to ask though is - When you do the live draw, are you going to check as you go along that a group winner doesn`t play the runner up from his group in the very next match? eg: If Mark James and myself finish 1st & 2nd in our group and both qualify, can we draw each other in the last 64?
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Post by Chris_Sav on Oct 31, 2011 18:32:05 GMT
Hi All, Just responding to some questions. Lewis, There will be a runner up in ever group, however as 42 groups with the winners automatically qualifying this leaves 22 to make 'Last 64'; therefore the best 22 runners up shall be placed in this. They shall be decided by the same method as the Groups; Points, Averages, Highest individual score, Toss of a Coin. The remaining players who don't qualify are in the plate with every one else. Hopefully this will encourage attacking play to keep averages high. KT, I understand your concern, however the draw shall be totally random, therefore if you are unlucky enough to 're-draw' your group qualifier so-be-it. The only benefit is that you will be on yet a different table with double game. Odds of 're-drawing' your group player, reasonably high I think. Thanks all Sean
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Post by Chris_Sav on Oct 31, 2011 18:33:05 GMT
Hi Chris, Yes. Rules will be displayed within the arena during the weekend and we shall be announcing/advertising the Live Draws many times during the Saturday. If required, we shall also place signs up advising that Draws start at 7.00pm. See you then. Sean
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Post by Chris_Sav on Oct 31, 2011 18:33:57 GMT
Hi all I think that everyone has concerns over the weekend about how it will all pan out, i`m sure there has been a lot of thought and questions leading up to the event. My thoughts are to let the weekend run how they have set it out and not so many questions, we in guernsey did a pairs compitition this year and to my knowledge it was a great success, i`m sure this year in jersey is going to be a great weekend with so many players having more games and table time. Lets just go and enjoy everyone...... Really looking forward to it........
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Post by Chris_Sav on Oct 31, 2011 18:34:39 GMT
Hi all I think that everyone has concerns over the weekend about how it will all pan out, i`m sure there has been a lot of thought and questions leading up to the event. My thoughts are to let the weekend run how they have set it out and not so many questions, we in guernsey did a pairs compitition this year and to my knowledge it was a great success, i`m sure this year in jersey is going to be a great weekend with so many players having more games and table time. Lets just go and enjoy everyone...... Really looking forward to it........ I agree with the principle of what you are saying Champs..... and we are really looking forward to the weekend..... but people do need to understand the format so they know what they have to do to try to progress in the competition.... ;) Before anybody says it..... yes, I know..... win your games! ::) If only it was that easy..... ;)
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Post by Chris_Sav on Oct 31, 2011 18:36:26 GMT
To J.B.B.L. Is there going to be a rule about players 'conceding' ? ie K.T. v A.Nother last game in group stages - KT is in third place but needs a win over 10K to ensure second place. Opponent watches him break off with 10K and his opponent, (already bottom of the group) refuses to take a shot and shakes his hand, thus affecting the possible outcome of the second placed players score, and possibility of being one of the best placed runners up with a chance to go through on average scores. Sorry about this question and you probably have covered everything in the rules. I think the whole concept is brilliant and looking forward to a very competitive and interesting weekend of Bar Billiards. Well done to Jersey for bringing these ideas forward. .
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Post by Chris_Sav on Oct 31, 2011 18:36:59 GMT
I have discussed this directly with Sean and they are aware, so a definitive answer should be forthcoming soon. There are two situations to cover:- 1) A player cannot be bothered to complete his group fixtures; AEBBA have a rule that his matches are expunged, Jersey's rules are independent. 2) A player overlays and misses his first group match; He would be out of the main competition in previous years. Wait for Sean. Sav
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Post by Chris_Sav on Oct 31, 2011 18:37:41 GMT
Hi Sean. I have a question for you has the new format been sent out to those that don't have access to a computer I had a player yesterday that was unaware that there is a new format this year. Thanks. Ian. That's very unlikely I would think Ian..... after all, how are the organisers meant to know who has access to a computer and who doesn't..... ::) I would assume that most people who are on the Forum would have talked about that with those that they know are thinking about going to Jersey this year..... it's certainly been a popular talking point at most of the matches that I have played in since the new Format was announced. 8-)
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Post by Chris_Sav on Oct 31, 2011 18:38:43 GMT
It was a simple question Dave prehaps not worded very well. Information has gone out in the post in previous years, & as this is so important they may be sending out to all entrants in hard format & not leaving it to be passed on by 3rd parties who could explain it wrong !!!!! Thats why I asked Sean.
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Post by Chris_Sav on Oct 31, 2011 18:39:41 GMT
All, In response to various questions. Ian, Programmes and a basic overview shall be issued either today or tomorrow for people to receive, these are sent to our usual contacts, however we are also reliant on the '3rd party' players advising. Unfortunately we are unable to advise all due to not having contact details. This is in line with all previously years, granted however, with a totally different format. It may be worthwhile obtaining peoples E-mail addresses or an alternative to advise the majority of any big changes in the tournament. The other two major questions raised were: 1. What happens if a player doesn't fulfil all their group fixtures by conceding? 2. What happens if a player misses their first game/ sign in? Both have similar answers in one respect. 1. If a player concedes in the group stages (excluding the last ball) then they theoretically affect other players averages as the other player wouldn't be able to keep playing. If this happens and it is reported to the Tournament Directors, whether in the players first, second or last game, they will automatically be withdrawn from the competition, irrelevant of their league position and they will then be automatically placed in the plate. The matches from the player that does concede will not be counted in the group standings. 2. If a player misses the signing in time for their group which results in them missing the first game in their group, whether playing or only marking/scoring, they will automatically be placed in the Plate, taking no part in the main competition. The key rule is:All Games are exactly that, "a game", and should be played in the spirit of a game. All 'JBBL rules' shall be placed on each table and the 'group rules' shall be read out prior to each group starting their first game. They shall also be placed around the room. Hopefully this will avoid any confusion. Finally, the Tournament Directors decision is final. Any questions, please ask, if not, see you all in less than two weeks. Cheers Sean
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Post by Chris_Sav on Oct 31, 2011 18:40:27 GMT
Yet another question....sorry Champs!! Hi Sean, is the highest break going to count just for the "single leg" matches or for "single" & "double leg" matches? I'm only asking because the other year I'd made the highest break in the single legs only to be told it was now up to the 4th rd which included double legs, even though the programme that I found on a table said single legs only. :o I think KT won it that year with his 18,000+ chasing Steve Ahiers 17,000+. Keith PS Thanks Sean for doing a great job in answering all our questions and in quick time. 8-)
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Post by Chris_Sav on Oct 31, 2011 18:41:25 GMT
Hi Keith, Just a response to your question, which I'm sure you will be pleased to hear. 'Highest Break' shall be contested just in the Group stages of the main competition (i.e. Singles games only). Once the last 64 has started none of the 'individual target' prizes shall be up for grabs. I trust this is the answer you wanted and see everyone in 10 days roughly. Sean
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Post by Chris_Sav on Oct 31, 2011 18:42:18 GMT
Hi Neil, Breaks will be as per previous years whereby once the initial break has finished the second player will get the 'break back'. Thanks Sean
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Post by Chris_Sav on Oct 31, 2011 18:42:49 GMT
All, Just a slight amendment to one of the rules when it comes to 'winning' the break in the third game. For the final two games, on the third table, the breaks shall be decided by each player playing a white ball, from the ‘Spot’ on a direct line to the centre of the white peg aiming to get as close as possible, or touching, the white peg. The first named player on the card shall play first, rolling up to, or touching, the left hand white peg, with the second named player on the card rolling up to, or touching, the right hand white peg. The closest to, or touching, their peg wins the break for that game. If either player knocks over the peg then their opponent wins the break, only after attempts have been made by both the players. If both players knock over the peg then both players shall try again, reversing the order of play. If the referees for the game can’t decide on who is closest to the white peg then both players shall try again, reversing the order of play. If a player, in the opinion of the referee, does not play the shot on a direct line to the centre of the white peg, they automatically lose the break.This amendment to the rule therefore categorically rules out any shot that goes past the white peg as this will be deemed a foul and therefore that player wouldn't win the break. Many thanks Sean
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Post by Chris_Sav on Oct 31, 2011 18:44:09 GMT
All, Just a slight amendment to one of the rules when it comes to 'winning' the break in the third game. For the final two games, on the third table, the breaks shall be decided by each player playing a white ball, from the ‘Spot’ on a direct line to the centre of the white peg aiming to get as close as possible, or touching, the white peg. The first named player on the card shall play first, rolling up to, or touching, the left hand white peg, with the second named player on the card rolling up to, or touching, the right hand white peg. The closest to, or touching, their peg wins the break for that game. If either player knocks over the peg then their opponent wins the break, only after attempts have been made by both the players. If both players knock over the peg then both players shall try again, reversing the order of play. If the referees for the game can’t decide on who is closest to the white peg then both players shall try again, reversing the order of play. If a player, in the opinion of the referee, does not play the shot on a direct line to the centre of the white peg, they automatically lose the break.This amendment to the rule therefore categorically rules out any shot that goes past the white peg as this will be deemed a foul and therefore that player wouldn't win the break. Many thanks Sean So this means that you cannot aim just to the side of the peg? If so, this would give a massive advantage to the player going 2nd as if the first person knocks the peg over, the second person just has to tap the ball off the spot to win it? Just a suggestion, but would it not be a better idea to remove the peg and then have a closest to the spot?
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Post by Chris_Sav on Oct 31, 2011 18:45:55 GMT
So this means that you cannot aim just to the side of the peg? If so, this would give a massive advantage to the player going 2nd as if the first person knocks the peg over, the second person just has to tap the ball off the spot to win it? Just a suggestion, but would it not be a better idea to remove the peg and then have a closest to the spot? I agree, it does seem to favour the player who goes second. The suggestion of removing the pegs seems a good one. Alternatively perhaps a ball played after a peg has been knocked over has to pass at least beyond the back edge of the fifty pocket, otherwise it would also be deemed to be a foul shot. On the subject of breaks, is it possible to work out from the draw which game(s) we will get the automatic first break on?
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Post by Chris_Sav on Oct 31, 2011 18:46:31 GMT
Hi all, In answer to milhouse and Ros: No, the rule states you have to aim directly for the peg. With regards to player 2 having an advantage, we don't think so. Player one shouldn't knock over the white peg but get close enough to challenge the second player. Pegs will not be removed. The skill and nerves is not hitting the peg. Keg of lager and keg of Guinness for both me and Graeme please. Thanks Sean
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Post by Chris_Sav on Oct 31, 2011 18:47:12 GMT
Hi all, In answer to milhouse and Ros: No, the rule states you have to aim directly for the peg. With regards to player 2 having an advantage, we don't think so. Player one shouldn't knock over the white peg but get close enough to challenge the second player. Pegs will not be removed. The skill and nerves is not hitting the peg. Keg of lager and keg of Guinness for both me and Graeme please. Thanks Sean I agree with the element of skill, but the point i was trying to make is that IF the first person does knock the peg over, the second player only has to tap the ball off the spot to win, so no pressure at all!
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Post by Chris_Sav on Oct 31, 2011 18:47:44 GMT
I agree with the element of skill, but the point i was trying to make is that IF the first person does knock the peg over, the second player only has to tap the ball off the spot to win, so no pressure at all! Same has applied for very many years in the AEBBA equal time rule, player one pegs out over half time, so player two plays one break shot and taps Other reason for posting is I will be partnering Nick Barnett in the pairs. Sav
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Post by Chris_Sav on Oct 31, 2011 18:48:56 GMT
I agree with the element of skill, but the point i was trying to make is that IF the first person does knock the peg over, the second player only has to tap the ball off the spot to win, so no pressure at all![/quote] Lets all go with it for this year, and I am sure any adjustments and refinements will follow once this years format has been tested. The only amendment I can think of is that in each 'bull up' or closest to peg situation, it is the best of three with the third attempt choice of who goes first decided on by a toss of a coin. That might add a couple of minutes to each round though.[/quote]
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Post by GBGuernsey on Nov 3, 2011 12:02:21 GMT
there is a pile of posts on the rules.
Is there one single post to read which states what on earth is going on? i heard about rolling up to the pegs to win the break but without sitting at my pc all day trying to wade through this i dont have the time to find that specific post.
also, what about timings?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2011 14:17:37 GMT
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Post by Chris_Sav on Nov 3, 2011 14:20:32 GMT
also, what about timings? Under the Tournament Draw thread Gary, found here. There is a second attachment further down with the timings Must have that beer! Sav.
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Post by GBGuernsey on Nov 3, 2011 22:54:43 GMT
As you've asked so nicely, Gary, I'm always mr nice! Thanks all for clearing up my lack of research. See you tomorrow tommo to show how nice I can be
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