Handicap for Bar Billiards

[The Bullet]

Hi All,

Well let’s have some fun, set the cat amongst the pigeons and discuss handicaps for barbilliards :) :) :) :).

This season the GBBA introduced a handicap for players, I’ve had a quick look at the stats and the way they are calculated and administered and believe they are fundamentally flawed.

From the little I know, the idea of a handicap is to make a level playing field for both players, the current system employed by the GBBA does not achieve this.

As I am not an expert in handicap systems I thought it would be a good idea to start a thread for discussion on handicaps for barbilliards.

A quick note on the way the GBBA league works: games are played over one game lasting 15 to 17 minutes, player’s names are randomly picked to decide who plays who, the away player has the opening break, where games are played on neutral tables the captains toss a coin with the winner deciding if his team has the breaks in games 1, 3 and 5 or 2 and 4. The games are not equal breaks.

The GBBA has calculated this seasons handicap from the average score for a player from the preceding season.

Following a very quick look at the way the handicaps are calculated I believe this gives an unfair advantage to the away player/player with the opening break in single game matches; also there is no weighting for the difference in the highest score possible on each table. Some tables are high scoring and some are not and this should also be incorporated into calculations.

However the current system might have some credence in games of two legs i.e. both players have an equal chance on the break.

In my opinion the current system in single game format gives an unfair advantage to the away player/player with the opening break. Let’s imagine there are two players “A” and “B” who are both equal in ability and handicap from the previous season, they are both able to knock in breaks of 10,000+ and score 16,000 over a 16 minute game i.e. 1,000 per minute.

With the current system all player “A” has to do is knock in 8,500 in 8 ½ minutes to win the game to get 2.2 points for the league player stats and one point for a handicap win.  As player “B” has no advantage in playing the rest of the game as any score will go towards his handicap next season likewise player “A” has no incentive to increase his score over the remaining game time, so for the following 7 minutes or so of the game they just tap around on the table, hardly the best way to raise the standard of play in Guernsey.

IMHO I believe that in single game matches the player with the opening break handicap should be increased to reflect the advantage that having the opening break can give him.

I believe that the handicap should be calculated on an individual player/game basis i.e. when the committee receives the score cards they should be looking at each individual pairing and calculate what each players handicap should be on the particular table taking into account the player’s season score to date. I know this will produce a fair bit of work but in single game matches this is probably the only way to produce a level playing field for both players

Feb 25, 2012 18:11:04 GMT The Bullet said:

Following a very quick look at the way the handicaps are calculated I believe this gives an unfair advantage to the away player/player with the opening break in single game matches; also there is no weighting for the difference in the highest score possible on each table. Some tables are high scoring and some are not and this should also be incorporated into calculations.

Can't aspire to solve the situation - only Guernsey can do that - but just to say that when Mid Sussex ran our Charity League (last run 2 seasons ago) it was based on a grid which grouped players into Bands (A,B,C,D,E,F,G & H) dependent on scoring potential and the very thing you mention above - a weighting for the difference in the highest score possible on each table. This seemed to work okay to level the playing field, but towards the end was definitely favouring the lowlier teams (maybe not a bad thing !) as the handicaps for the lower Bands were overgenerous and you got the occasional 'bandit'.

[BB Warrior]

Feb 25, 2012 18:11:04 GMT The Bullet said:

I believe that the handicap should be calculated on an individual player/game basis i.e. when the committee receives the score cards they should be looking at each individual pairing and calculate what each players handicap should be on the particular table taking into account the player’s season score to date. I know this will produce a fair bit of work but in single game matches this is probably the only way to produce a level playing field for both players

An interesting question as games with handicaps involved will always throw up some form of debate about how much of a handicap players should have in matches.... and table qualities should also come into the equation.

But I don't think that games should be decided "retrospectively" by a committee as surely the players have to know what they have to do to win the match while they are playing the game.... or you will have the inevitable situation of a player touching up (I believe you call it "sticking" over there! ;)) during a game thinking that they have scored enough, only to find out afterwards that they actually lost the game as the committee adjusted the scores.... ::) :'(

I have played in 2 Handicap Competitions that are regularly played in Leagues in Sussex, the Brighton Summer Cup and the Mid-Sussex Charity League that Tommo has already mentioned.  Both have slightly different ways of calculating player handicaps and a different format to each other.... and are different to the method that GBBA are using.

In the Brighton Summer Cup, players are given a handicap which is based on about 90% of their previous seasons average and they give their "score" to their opponent at the start of each game.  Away teams get the breaks in games 1,3 and 5 and the Home teams get breaks in 2 & 4 and each game is nominated by the Captains rather than "lucky draw" with the team having the break nominating first, so the Captains can choose to pick a weak player against a strong player if they feel that the handicap will give them a significant advantage. ;)

There are no adjustments made for the quality of the table and I remember one captain using this very well to their advantage in a Semi-Final a couple of years ago when he managed to play his weakest player (handicap 0) against SirKT (handicap 8,000) on a table where nobody could even get both balls down on the break.... it was on a neutral table that hadn't been used since the end of the normal season 3 months earlier and nobody had touched the table in that time. :'(  Despite KT playing the table better than anybody else, he still lost by over 2k and his team lost the game. ::)

The Brighton Summer Cup tends to be played mainly by the Lower Division Teams, although a few of the Premier players do offer themselves up for sacrifice sometimes in the Competition. ;D  It does tend to be played more as a "fun" competition that the normal League, however table qualities are variable during the summer months and is also not unknown for some players to deliberately knock the Black Peg over at the end of a normal League match which they have lost to deliberately lower their average for the Summer Cup Competition.... so the occasional bandit does exist in Brighton as well. :o

The Mid-Sussex Charity League has a slightly different format and, as Tommo has already mentioned, players are banded into groups based on their previous seasons average and table scores from the previous year are also taken into consideration, which can make quite a difference.  An "A Rated" player was usually based on somebody who averaged more than (about) 4,000 the previous season and always had a 0 Handicap wherever they played, while a beginner would receive an "H" rating and would therefore receive a start of somewhere between (about) 2,200 and 4,400 depending on the rating of the table.

All games were nominated by the Captains and the away teams received all 6 breaks (4 singles and 2 doubles) and had to nominate their player first.  There was no adjustments made to the handicap to allow for who had the break in the games, but the system still seemed to work pretty well and, as Tommo mentioned, the "lower rated" players enjoyed a good level of success against the "higher rated" players during the Competition and the Teams that reached the finals were often from the lower end of the bottom division rather than the "Top" teams in the League. ;D

But, there were still flaws in that system.... it did not make any allowance for the difference in standard between two A Rated players, one of whom could have averaged 4,001 the previous season and another who averaged 8,500, both would start on zero in matches although there is a clear discrepancy in standard between the players.  It couldn't allow for new tables being installed and new players & teams entering the League were always awkward to grade appropriately to be fair to everybody involved. :-/

But, of the two systems, I think that the Mid-Sussex method was perhaps slightly better as it did take into consideration the table qualities.... but possibly a combination of the 2 systems basing the handicap on the ACTUAL average of each player but taking the table into consideration and adjusting the handicap accordingly would have been even better. ;)  

I do agree that having the break (or not) should also make a difference to the handicap and I also think that nominated games are better than "lucky draw" as the Captains can then decide who to match up against individual opponents to get the best result for their team.  You could even take the handicap system further and give different handicaps for players in Home and Away matches, as we all know players who are "Home Table Specialists" but perhaps struggle more on away tables.

So for me, the ideal Handicap system would include....

1) Individual Players Average, adjusted for both Home and Away games.
2) The average score of each individual table.
3) Which player has the break, with an advantage given to the non-break player.
4) Captains to nominate players, rather than lucky draw.
5) Away teams to get the breaks in games 2,3 & 5, Home teams to have break in games 1 & 4 (so they have to show the away team where the break is).
6) Teams with break to nominate first in each game.

The down-side of this is that you would end up with some very complicated Handicap Sheets with players Handicaps changing in every game, which would certainly keep the Captains thinking.... and I wouldn't envy the poor administrator who would have to work out all of the handicaps each season! :o

If that all sounds too complicated, the fairest alternatives that I can think of would be to have "equal breaks" in each game.... or even 2 timed games (10 minutes each, to enable the games to be fitted into the evening?) with each player having the break in one of the games... 8-)

[The Bullet]

Thanks for the comments they are very well received, in particular BB Warrior for such a full and very informative response.
Your idea on the ideal system is very close to what I had in mind although No. 4 would probably be a step to far.

[Chris_Sav]

I personally do not like handicap systems. On a decent table against a second division player I'm going to tap up at 6k and give them a game. With a handicap facing me I'm going to try to run it out, which hisses them off even more.

The only handicap system I have ever played under that worked reasonably well across a variety of tables and abilities was in the old Canterbury league, problem was scoring was difficult, though they did not have mobile phones in those days. That system used a multiplication factor. Players had one, two, three or four as their multiplier. Everything they scored was multiplied at the end of the break by their multiplier. This at least meant they had to do something to win and not just sit on an 8k lead chalking their cue and studying shots for ages. You try beating someone whose every score is multiplied by four!!

Solution is simple and well like in our League Cup where all play all and that is triangles, but not off the spot (including break) as triangles was never meant to be played that way.

It's a real leveller with close finishes and makes the good players master more than three shots.

Sav

[oge]

I read these with interest but feel the context of the competition needs to be taken into account.

As you all know Billiards is a dying sport and in Guernsey we currently only have 5 teams. We introduced the Handicap system to try and support new and lower ability players. ( before we lose even more)

Normal stats exist and Island selection is based on those.
Handicap points are calculated as an average from the season before. I.e. home, away and Neutral so therefore over a season should even themselves out.

The handicap has no bearing on team league position and is for individuals only.

I will honestly tell you i look to win my game 1st as this is the most important thing for the team and for Island selection. We don't even know our oppositions handicap at the start of the game.

[BB Warrior]

Feb 27, 2012 11:01:17 GMT oge said:

I will honestly tell you i look to win my game 1st as this is the most important thing for the team and for Island selection. We don't even know our oppositions handicap at the start of the game.

Errrr.... this may be a silly question, but..... how do you know if you have won if you don't know the oppositions handicap at the start of the game.... ??? :o :o :o

[Sir Chancelot]

Feb 27, 2012 18:01:33 GMT BB Warrior said:

Feb 27, 2012 11:01:17 GMT oge said:

I will honestly tell you i look to win my game 1st as this is the most important thing for the team and for Island selection. We don't even know our oppositions handicap at the start of the game.

Errrr.... this may be a silly question, but..... how do you know if you have won if you don't know the oppositions handicap at the start of the game.... ??? :o :o :o

Darren is trying to point out that the Handicap league is not as important to some players as it is for others.
His league win goes down as a win towards the Masters top 16 and a point for his team.
The "handicap" league is an experiment to encourage some of the lesser players to improve their game, if they put in a better than last season performance.
Currently Davey Richardson is 4th and Paul Mason 6th, from the bottom team and usual whipping boys La Fontaine, so surely that explains what the G.B.B.A.are trying to achieve when they brought this experiment in.
Perhaps the word Handicap has confused some people, and it should be re-termed Underdogs League.

One could work out a more complicated scheme with average scores per table and away v home fixtures.
But you are going to have to get some mathematician with the time and dedication to do all this, and it would be complicated as some tables get re-covered mid season, so how would that affect the averages ?

Unless someone comes up with a more simple and workable system, I think this experiment should be viewed for what it was brought in for, and viewed as a bit of fun.

Also to encourage some of the lesser known players to see their names at the top of a league, if they put in the performances and raise their averages.

Any tweaks to the system can be discussed at the A.G.M.

[GBGuernsey]

BB - that was a great initial detailed response, comments noted.

Lets remember this system is a trial and had we not started we would not be in the position we are now.

Meaning, yes we now see the system has issues but without comments such as the one from BB above we would not know how to improve the system.

Keep the comments coming.

[gandalf the untidy]

Probably worth looking at double breaks to give all an even start, probably not worth reducing averages for the comp as
1. players will probably score better than their averages due to multiple matches
2. handycap averages are still open to agressive 200 shots abuse during the season when a player already knows hes lost which could give a lower net average for that season (unfortunately)

regs cs

[BB Warrior]

Feb 27, 2012 19:05:28 GMT Sir Chancelot said:

Also to encourage some of the lesser known players to see their names at the top of a league, if they put in the performances and raise their averages.

Anything that is introduced to encourage more players to take the game up and to improve their game should be welcomed and encouraged by all.... and I hope that the trial by GBBA is successful and that all of the players enjoy the format that you use. ;D

Given that the aim is to encourage the "lesser players" (although I don't really like that expression), I'm not sure that this would work though....

Feb 29, 2012 15:41:47 GMT gandalf the untidy said:

Probably worth looking at double breaks to give all an even start

....would that simply not make it easier for the better players to chase down the advantage given by the handicaps. ??? ::)

Another alternative that you could consider would be to remove (or at least reduce) the handicaps but restrict the maximum size of break a player can make in a visit to the table.  This system has been used in the "League Cup" Format this season in the Lewes League with a restriction of 3,000 maximum break in any one visit playing off the spot and has proved to be a good "leveller" with "lesser players" knowing that they will get plenty of visits to the table during the course of the game regardless of who they are drawn against. ;)

[gandalf the untidy]

[/quote]
....would that simply not make it easier for the better players to chase down the advantage given by the handicaps. ??? ::)[/quote]

yes ....and looking at it from the other side would it not make it easier for the lower handicap player to catch up if against the break!!! :-* fairer from both points of view me thinks.

regs cs

PS Also think this needs to be simple rather than working out massive calculation variations, players averages are based on playing all types of tables through the season, so net average should suffice, dont think its necessary to make things complicated, those who play on good home tables will have a higher average but this will be offset by playing on "neutral" tables which will have a slight negative effect and with double break a slight positive.

[BB Warrior]

Feb 29, 2012 17:04:09 GMT gandalf the untidy said:

yes ....and looking at it from the other side would it not make it easier for the lower handicap player to catch up if against the break!!! :-* fairer from both points of view me thinks.

No, I don't get that at all.... how does it help the lower player beat the higher player when they both have the break? :o

Surely, the higher player will simply try to stay on the table even longer to catch up the handicap and put themselves far enough in front that the lower player can't catch them up, whereas the idea seems to be to make it harder for the better players to win and give the lower players the opportunity to beat them. 8-)

So maybe just give the break and a head start to the lower rated player in each game and really make the big boys work for their wins.... seemples! ;D

[gandalf the untidy]

Feb 29, 2012 18:11:39 GMT BB Warrior said:

Feb 29, 2012 17:04:09 GMT gandalf the untidy said:

yes ....and looking at it from the other side would it not make it easier for the lower handicap player to catch up if against the break!!! :-* fairer from both points of view me thinks.

No, I don't get that at all.... how does it help the lower player beat the higher player when they both have the break? :o

perhaps thats what the handicap is for?