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Post by chellster on Feb 26, 2007 12:03:49 GMT
Hi all
Where do i start?
i have played every game for my inter league team this year but it seems am not good enough for the one day as there are 3 people that have not played one game that are better players (which i'm not arguing with).
Two of the players are actually signed up with other inter league teams and one has played one inter league game for us for the sole purpose of getting into the Inter league one day. IS THIS FAIR? I DONT THINK SO. I was offered the chance to share a spot with one of the other regular players - to which i repled - no thanks.
It seems to me like there are players in the team that are just worried about winning the competition where are for me the game is primarily about enjoyment.
Are these players going to play for our team next year - again i dont think so - but the captain is now going to have to hunt loyal regular players because on this basis i will never play for them again. I don't completely blame my captain by the way he is not only a wonderful person but a very good friend and i believe he has had pressure to make this decision. He is meeting me tonight to discuss the decision but even if it is overturned (which i doubt) it would be impossible for me to play under the circumstances!!
Asked a certain team mate if he thought i should play and was told to be honest i was not good enough and if the town had more to chose from i would not even be in the normal team (great - i feel so much better now).
In saying that other team members have been supportive - so thanks to them.
SOrry to start off Monday morning with such depressing news but it has to be said.
Very upset
Chellster ???
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Post by JB on Feb 26, 2007 12:33:24 GMT
The same thing happened to me a few years ago. You turn up, travel to places like Redhill Eastbourne Littlehampton every inter-league match mostly to get thrown in matches. You win some lose some but hold your own in the team. Then the one days come along and to get told your not included as someone much better than you is going to play in your place STINKS. Yes it does seem that for some teams winning is the most important and lets just forget the players that turn up for every match throughout the year. I for one love the team i play in now and the 7 of us who turn up regularly are always asked to play the one day comp even though there are better players out there. If i got asked to play for the other team i would refuse on principal even if it meant i could not then play for the team im playing in now. Know how you feel as ive been there and know exactly how it feels.
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Post by Chippers on Feb 26, 2007 12:39:39 GMT
Quite honestly I think its outragous !!
As captain of Lewes, I would never dream of dropping any of my regular players.
I think you are right Chelle its all about winning and nothing about being a team.
You have now been put in a impossible position, which next season will have a big impact on the Littlehampton team, when all said players will have left to play in "bigger" teams and Littlehampton are left with very few players.
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Post by Sami Sheard on Feb 26, 2007 13:22:20 GMT
I think it is disgusting you are a fantastic player mummy and this shows as u r feared by many!!! How can some one justify fighting to get there missus to get in a team which they shouldn't be in when they can barely hit a ball and then have the audacity to say u are not gd enough to play in this. You are obviously gd enough to travel miles to play for them every week but now it is convenient for another player to play, which yes may b better than you, they put them in sorry ur Alli can't b there to defend u and u know she would if she could Love u mummy Chin up don't let that idiots grind u down he he xxxxxxx
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2007 13:36:04 GMT
You have opened a can of worms on this - there are lots of variables (should the one-day team be chosen from the 'best players' from the home/away interleague teams? - there may be A,B and C to choose from; can a player who plays in more than one league mix his/her loyalties?; can an extra B team be got up for the one-day when there wasn't one for home and away?; should ladies play in the ladies competition AND the open competition the following day? )
At the end of the day, these are all matters for your own domestic league to thrash out. And some appoint selection committees especially for the purpose.
Maybe it's time for the Sussex County Bar Billiards Association to tighten up a bit on the grounds for qualification: perhaps to be able to play in this competition you would have had to play for that particular league in the Home and Away. This would put piad to someone like me playing for Mid Sussex in the Home/Away and Redhill in the One-Dayer, which I have done in the past (2001 the last time I think). But I would accept it if the rule were there.
I have every sympathy, having once been considered not good enough for Horsham when a new captain took over. And I've only just got back into the Redhill One-Day team by turning out for them regularly in the Home/Away, I wouldn't have been considered otherwise.
So yes, maybe it's time that Sussex looked at it. But someone needs to put something forward at the next AGM if you want to change things for the better.
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Post by Chippers on Feb 26, 2007 14:09:16 GMT
With all due respect Tommo...............I think its down to each Captain to select his/her team. Littlehampton dont have A/B/C teams, so selection IMHO is easy. Littlehampton Interleague (regular) players play the one day.
Bringing other players in (in these circumstances) is not fair on the regulars...........in this instance Chelle.
Of Course its Littlehamptons Captains choice.............and he will have to live with it.
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Richard
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Post by Richard on Feb 26, 2007 14:45:48 GMT
Michelle
I think it is really not on. One of the players who will be playing for Littlehampton asked me as Brighton captain if he could play for Brighton in the One day, I said if I could not get a team I would see but called my standard team all could make it so the answer to him was no. I would never consider dropping one of my team just to play someone better. I know the same person also tried to play for Worthing in the one day so in fact Littlehampton is at the very best the third choice.
I will also be interested to see if Littlehampton get relegated in interlegue will this new wonder team stay, I think not.
We were not happy that Littlehampton brought in Ian Lelliott to play for them against us, he has never played in Littlehampton , but it looks like this is the way Littlehampton are going, try and win anyway you can !!!!!!!!
Dave Hampton I am very surprised you are letting yourself be talked into this by new members to your team. still it is you that has to live with the decision.
Must go now , trying to get hold of Keith Sheard for the Brighton Summer league before anyone else gets there first.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2007 15:20:23 GMT
With all due respect Tommo...............I think its down to each Captain to select his/her team. Did I say otherwise ? Oh, I must have inferred otherwise. ;D I had two separate three-year stints of being captain of Horsham A (back in the 80s/90s) and for the first stint I was governed by a selection committee, and for the second stint I was allowed to choose my players. I didn't mind either way. The only time I had any aggro was when I dropped Bob Toye during the one day for poor form, and he went ballistic. He played for Brighton after that. It is really down to each individual league how they want to run things.
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Ice Man
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Post by Ice Man on Feb 26, 2007 15:28:46 GMT
To answer your original question chelle, yes this game is just about winning or so most people may think, no names being mentioned.
This whole situation is outrageous and clearly shows that bar billiards is now purely about politics or as some people may say, its not what you know its who you know!!
How can a decision like that ever be justified coz its quite preposterous. Chelle is a fantastic player and in my opinion an ambassador to the game.
Unfortunately Bar Billiards in general is fast becoming a joke as its not now about playing the game and having some fun but more about politics than anything.
No disrespect to the captain coz he's a gentleman and a friend of mine but i honestly think that someone may have influenced his decision somewhere along the line, which cannot be accepted under any circumstances!
What are we doing to the game that so many of us once loved to play?
Very annoyed by this decision!! >:( >:(
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2007 15:32:13 GMT
I said if I could not get a team I would see but called my standard team all could make it so the answer to him was no. I would never consider dropping one of my team just to play someone better. Agreed, it's all about loyalty. We all want our team to be the best possible, but team spirit is important also. If room has to be made for an extra player in any of my teams, all the other players would have to be in agreement first. If the Sussex Association tightened their rules a bit, we would not have this trouble: Perhaps a player should have to play six games in a particular league in the same season in order to qualify to represent that League at One-Day Interleague ? Just a suggestion.
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Post by JB on Feb 26, 2007 15:39:29 GMT
If the Sussex Association tightened their rules a bit, we would not have this trouble: Perhaps a player should have to play six games in a particular league in the same season in order to qualify to represent that League at One-Day Interleague ? Just a suggestion. (Sorry still havent worked out how to do quotes yet)
This wouldnt solve the problem. A player could play every league game but not be bothered to turnout for home & away inter-league but then offered the chance of playing in the one day and take the place of a player who has bothered.
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Ice Man
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Post by Ice Man on Feb 26, 2007 15:44:48 GMT
Dont let this get you down Chelle x Dont give anyone the satisfaction of letting it upset you x
Luv James x x As sami said, keep your chin up mummy number 2 lol x x :-*
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2007 15:47:51 GMT
This wouldnt solve the problem. A player could play every league game but not be bothered to turnout for home & away inter-league but then offered the chance of playing in the one day and take the place of a player who has bothered. Well, that slapped my bright idea down good and proper and no messing, Jean ! ;D So what's your suggestion then ? Or are the rules/guidelines perfect as they stand ? (I'm one of the ones who benefits from the current flexibility by the way. ;) )
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Post by JB on Feb 26, 2007 15:59:34 GMT
Personally i dont know tommo. Most inter-league teams have their basic 7 players and then reserves who play the home & away. To me its only right that these 7 players are given the choice first of playing in the one day then the reserves. If a player declines then start asking your reserves and other players. Bit garbled that - sorry. My main point is when you turn up every inter league match home & away and then get told that someone is playing instead of you in the one day its out of order and would make anyone angry.
Can anyone tell me how to do a quote-whatever i do dont seem to work.
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Ice Man
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Post by Ice Man on Feb 26, 2007 16:06:07 GMT
This matter has every right to be discussed on pro boards. I'm afraid to say that something like this can never just be discussed in a committee meeting as it doesn't just affect the committee but whole of the one day interleague! In the end of the day a captains decision should be final and should under no circumstances ever be influenced by any individual either playing or not playing in the team. There are far too many egos in this game and several players that need to knocked down a peg or two before its too late!! NOT >:(
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Post by Chippers on Feb 26, 2007 16:09:32 GMT
Its a good point ..........exactly what are the rules for the one day tournament.
I play Lewes, Brighton and when needed Worthing leagues. Now I know I can choose what interleague team to make myself available to, but suppose I choose and play for Lewes ..........can I play for Brighton in the one day ? I seem to remember hearing somewhere that I could.
Whatever the case, I think it should be ruled that you would not be able to play the one day, without first playing at least 4 games in normal interleague for that team.
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Post by davejones on Feb 26, 2007 16:15:27 GMT
The Sussex rules state that:
"SECONDARY" COMPETITION - ONE DAY BASIS - THIS IS AN 'OPEN' COMPETITION
1. REGISTRATION - In this competition, a player may play for another league than the one represented in the main competition, if the original league does not make any formal objection.
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Ice Man
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Post by Ice Man on Feb 26, 2007 16:21:12 GMT
The Sussex rules state that: "SECONDARY" COMPETITION - ONE DAY BASIS - THIS IS AN 'OPEN' COMPETITION 1. REGISTRATION - In this competition, a player may play for another league than the one represented in the main competition, if the original league does not make any formal objection. Maybe this stupid rule needs to be looked into at the next committee meeting to stop something like this happening again in the future!!
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Post by JB on Feb 26, 2007 16:26:34 GMT
The Sussex rules state that: "SECONDARY" COMPETITION - ONE DAY BASIS - THIS IS AN 'OPEN' COMPETITION 1. REGISTRATION - In this competition, a player may play for another league than the one represented in the main competition, if the original league does not make any formal objection. Seems a bit stupid this rule definately needs looking into. The chances are the player concerned wont have been asked to play in the one day and is therefore looking to play elsewhere. The main comp league wont object if they havent asked them. Think this ones going a bit off the topic asreally the rules as they stand dont come into it but loyalty and team spirit does.
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Post by Chippers on Feb 26, 2007 16:39:18 GMT
Thanks Dave.
Sort of makes a mockery of the whole competition really. Almost anyone can play for anyone.
Although I am captain of Lewes, I could have turned out for Brighton A in the one day. (Of course the existing team plus probably 20 or 30 other players would have to have gone down with flu first) ;D
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Post by davejones on Feb 26, 2007 16:43:03 GMT
It really comes down to loyalty doesn't it?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2007 16:50:19 GMT
Almost anyone can play for anyone. That was the point I was making: Whilst it is great to have flexibility, in this case the rules on qualification are too lax. I've been one to take advantage in the past, registered for a Horsham team, didn't play a single league game, and yet played Interleague for them (in the late 90's). I would support Marcus's view that you should have to play, say, four games in one to qualify for the other.
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Post by Chippers on Feb 26, 2007 17:04:43 GMT
Lets go for it Tommo........lets ask for a rule change :D
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Post by Owners' Account on Feb 26, 2007 17:22:27 GMT
Yes, Chubbsters alive and well... are you shocked?
My absence from here has been for many reasons, but you can expect and announcement soon from me, one that some of you already know, and others will find shocking...
But that's not for now...
Michelle, I'm really sorry you are having to go through this, and I know things like this upset you a great deal. It's worse for you because you put allot into the game and expect very little in return, which hurts me when I hear about this going on.
The way I see it, a team is a team. Littlehampton is not the biggest league in the world, and far from the strongest, but that's not the point. I always thought the point of playing for your league is that you were one of the best players in the league.... simple as that. What hurts me about this is that if, for example the captain came up at the end of the season and said "Michelle, I'm giving another LEAGUE player a go next year as I feel they have performed well enough to represent there league in inter league" then you Michelle would say fair play, and try and play harder to win your place back.
Is that not the point? Isn’t the point of a Littlehampton Inter-League team to get the best players in the league together to see what they can do on the county stage. And if your not the best team, surly the point is to improve, make the league stronger, give all the players a reason to do there best and work there way up...
That's the way it should be, that’s the way it's always been, that's what's good for the game. Nobody, and I mean nobody can dispute what I have said here....
And then I see what's going on. Instead of doing what's best for Bar Billiards, someone, or some people decide that rather than letting things be, they can give themselves a chance of winning by bring in non league players, just to give them a chance of winning.... So we cast aside the people who love the game, put there heart into it and work there socked off, spend there time and money whist out going to the matches representing THERE League, just to be cast aside by outside players who simply want a game, and realize they can get one in your team.
Dave, I am too Surprised at you. Your a truly great guy, and gentleman and a friend. That will not change no matter what happens, but ask yourself this.. Lets say you brought in 3 new players, top players who don’t play in Littlemapton. Lets say you won the competition... Where is the reward in that? I mean what satisfaction is there to be gained by that. Why not just start up Worthing E, and bring in 7 top players from Oxford? Sounds stupid when you put it like that doesn’t it, but there’s little difference with this. All you have done is pull in strong players to win something. There's no reward for the hard work you have put in with your current team. If I was captain of littlehampton, I would find far more reward and satisfaction by not being relegated with your current team (no offence intended) than just bringing in outsiders for the sake of being a better team....
And personally, if I was someone who played in Littlehampton, was not a great player, but had that goal of one day representing my league, working hard on my game only to get my chance taken away because of this, I would take that as an insult, a slap in the face and damn right disrespectful to the league, the game and it's players...
This, this right here is killing the game…..
Dave, end this now. Whoever is putting this pressure on you is simply wrong. Your a good guy, and this path your going down, the one where winning is far more important than the development of the league, it’s players and team spirit is just wrong. I would be ashamed to play with anyone who thinks this kind of idea is good, and I am truly shocked that a good person as yourself is being pressured into this.
No doubt some people will have many things to say about me next time I see them. Whoever they are, then feel free to say them. I'm happy with my views, and I think chairing a league before I was even playing Bar Billiards, running this forum etc shows that I care about Bar Billiards. We are all here to develop and enjoy the game of Bar Billiards, and this is not the way to go. If it's that important to you to win like this, then I'll quite happily throw my games for you, if it's that important you win. But your doing the game no good, and I'll say this openly to whoever thinks this "Real Madrid" style of team play is a good idea.... your simply ruining not only the hard work we put in, but the pure spirit of the competition, and the game as a whole...
I've said my piece. Sorry to here about this Michelle, I hope Dave reads this and changes his mind, and I can look forward to seeing you next week...
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Ice Man
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Post by Ice Man on Feb 26, 2007 17:27:21 GMT
Well said Glenn and thanks for posting on this rather lively debate!! ;)
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Post by chellster on Feb 26, 2007 17:45:52 GMT
Firstly i'd like to say thank you very much for all your kind words x i have been corrected in something i said and would like to put this straight. The team mate did not say I was not good enough but was not playing well enough and if LH was stronger could not expect to get in the team at all - sorry for that - i think it amounts to the same thing but needed to clarify!!!
Also i have read my daughter's comments and feel she was a little rough on Hayley and told her so. But all who know Sami knows that she is fiercly loyal to me and she has her own personal issues on this subject and feel maybe that has clouded her judgement. Just for the record i know Hayley is improving every day and will be a very good player.
I have also been called a hypocrite today so need to clarify this as well. I have been asked to play for Brighton for the ladies next week. I tried and tried and tried to get a ladies team for LH together but to no avail. Unfortunately most of the LH ladies also play Worthing and were approached by them first (which i have absolutely no problem with) Everyone knows how i like to play the game and was not approached by Worthing and Jean was struggling to get a team i agreed. But i know that i have not taken anyone's place in this and if i had i would have refused. I just thought that i had better explain this so that everyone is absolutely clear.
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Post by NigelS on Feb 26, 2007 18:05:11 GMT
I will have a proper chance to read this later and respond in full, got the score Chubbsters and Tupps quarter final in Brighton in an hour.
But in brief, the captain has to make these decisions, I faced it in Brighton when I was captain. I always offered the seven regular players a place for the one day competition, they are the ones turning out wvery other week for you. If and only if any of the seven did not accept I would invite other players to play on the one day. It is awful to tel someone they are not playing in the one day when perhaps it will be their only chance to get an equal chance as their teammates as they will have 4 breaks out of 8 and be drawn their opponents instead of nominated tough opponents (although that doesn;t change my mind re nominating rule Tommo!)
I am glad that Richard has stuck to this principle for Brighton and Worthing a similar stance, but it is up to each league to pick their team. I think a rule change must be thought about very carefully - there is a flip side (ie the ladies interleague proves a point of this). I will explain later in more depth but got to go now to get my bus.....
PS Chelle cannot be labelled a hypocrite at all here by playing brighton ladies, the circumstances are very very different and I want to reiterate that.
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Ice Man
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Post by Ice Man on Feb 26, 2007 18:05:36 GMT
Looks like today's hot topic has caused quite a stir in the Bar Billiards, ;D Fantastic ;D
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Post by Mark James on Feb 26, 2007 18:39:16 GMT
Hello everybody, I've truncated my post dramatically as it was taking too long to type. I don't want to go the way of Fazza, but I do hold the contrary view to most of you on this thread.
Can I presume that most of the contributors to this discussion believe that it was morally reprehensible of the Australian cricket authorities to have selected Shane Warne for the recent Ashes Test series, given that he is unavailable for One Day Internationals?
Oh, and by way of an aside, before you bring in a rule requiring players to play 4 H&A games before becoming eligible for the 1-day comp, you might want to spare a thought for poor old West Sussex, who won't be able to do that (they have a 1-day team but no H&A team, for those who don't know).
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Post by 4timeschamp on Feb 26, 2007 18:42:33 GMT
chelle, nigel, richard jo etc i totaaly agree with what you are saying. One of the players involved in this discussion is a good personal friend of mine and when he told me what was happening i told him what was happening in my opinion was morally wrong although within the rules. I would like to say though that i DO think the game is all about winning but winning in the right way. That does not mean you go and get a group of players together and play them as your league team, that is just not on. Winning is good but has to be done the right way. I dont know who the other players are but presume that they play in Worthing B and because of Worthings selection process choose instead to play for Littlehampton. If that is the case i also think that is morally wrong on the Littlehampton players whom are GOOD enoughth to turn out in the home and away. I seem to remember that this rule was brought in quite a few years ago to accomodate a couple of players to allow them to play for Littlehampton as their normal Interleague town either didnt pick them or they didnt want to play for the other Worthing side and obviously the people whos places they took then were a lot more forgiving towards their league but at last somebody has stood up for themselves. WELL DONE CHELLE
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