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Post by Chris_Sav on Jun 5, 2013 11:32:25 GMT
Starting off a thread to cover rule changes needed for the 2013 AEBBA AGM in December.
Proposals will be summarised in this, the first post, to prevent them being lost in the following posts.
PROPOSAL 1)
"The AEBBA committee is empowered to act in the case of any contingency that may arise which is not provided for in these rules.
The AEBBA committee is empowered to impose any penalties they may consider necessary and their decision will be final on any matter."
To be proposed by Keith Sheard) and seconded by Chris Saville.
(Edited by milko)
PROPOSAL 2)
That playing in the National Pairs (currently in Bournemouth) be conditional upon residency at the hotel where the competition is being held provided that rooms are available. Compulsory residency to commence from 2015.
Proposed Chris Saville (AEBBA Treasurer), seconded Phil Hawkins (AEBBA Chairman)
PROPOSAL 3)
"AEBBA will appoint one or more 'Independent Examiners' (formerly AKA Auditors) each year, starting in 2013, to examine (audit) the accounts prior to the Annual General Meeting."
Proposed by Chris Saville, seconded by Dave Ingram and Dave Alder has been informed;
PROPOSAL 4)
Entry for all AEBBA Competitions to be by advanced entry only and entries will only be accepted upon receipt of the relavant entry fees. The closing date for entries will be at the discretion of the Tournament Director but will normally be a minimum of 7 days before the date of the relevant competition. Late entries, including on the day, will only be accepted if there is a space available within the draw and at the discretion of the Tournament Director.
There are various benefits to AEBBA to add this rule...
1) A better idea of the number of entrants to all competitions in advance, which would mean the correct number of tables can be put up. 2) Payment received in advance, meaning that the players that fail to turn up will not get away with paying nothing - as they do now. 3) The draws and table schedules can be done in advance, saving time on the day.... and substantially reducing the workload of the person running the competition.
Proposed by Dave Ingram, seconded by Lorin Clough
PROPOSAL 5)
AEBBA appoint a publicity officer, who is also a voting member of the AEBBA committee, has the power to co-opt a sub committee if he sees fit and is authorised to claim justifiable expenses up to a figure not exceeding £500.
This to cover printing work, postage, travelling to/from special appointments and such like.
Proposed Chris Saville, seconded Clive Thompson.
PROPOSAL 6) 1) That the clause 'one vote per county' be removed from the AEBBA committee voting constitution.
Proposed Chris Saville, seconded by Dave Alder. It cannot be applied and is ignored as the current committee has two from Berks and two from Sussex.
PROPOSAL 7) 2) That the AEBBA committee voting constitution be amended to include a Publicity Officer, if appointed.
Proposed Chris Saville, seconded by Dave Alder.
PROPOSAL 8) That AEBBA recognises and welcomes, but does not administer, the four pin version of Bar Billiards. The rules and playing conditions for the Four Pin variant of Bar Billiards are those currently in force for the East Anglian Four Pin Open.
Proposed Chris Saville, seconded by Dave Alder. This is to allow Suffolk the choice of affiliation or associate membership from their application to join AEBBA.
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Post by Chris on Jun 5, 2013 17:03:30 GMT
I know that this will be for discussion at the AGM but in advance...
but for me these proposals basically say the AEBBA Committee can do anything it decides?
What would be a 'Contingency'?? that could be anything??
How will you ensure that if penalties are to be applied you have all facts? the word 'thinks' is of a concern. I am not in disagreement at all just the wordings need to be tighter to ensure a process and procedure not just a blanket statement.
The AEBBA is a governing body that needs to act within it's terms of reference and rules laid down by such a body.
It should if it requires more rules to carry out its duties be precise about what it requires and why, so that members can make an informed decision in backing or not that decision. It needs to be very clear and transparent in its dealings and therefore the above proposals would compromise that from its members.
Chris
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Post by Chris_Sav on Jun 5, 2013 17:33:18 GMT
but for me these proposals basically say the AEBBA Committee can do anything it decides? What would be a 'Contingency'?? that could be anything?? The AEBBA committee is bound by its rules and constitution and can only act within that framework, however no set of rules can cover the totally unexpected. This rule is to allow the committee to act only if something totally unexpected and not covered by the rules happen. How will you ensure that if penalties are to be applied you have all facts? the word 'thinks' is of a concern. I am not in disagreement at all just the wordings need to be tighter to ensure a process and procedure not just a blanket statement. Open to suggestions on rephrasing 'thinks' with 'considers' etc. The AEBBA is a governing body that needs to act within it's terms of reference and rules laid down by such a body. It should if it requires more rules to carry out its duties be precise about what it requires and why, so that members can make an informed decision in backing or not that decision. It needs to be very clear and transparent in its dealings and therefore the above proposals would compromise that from its members. AEBBA is still recovering from the total lack of a coherent set of rules for over twenty years. When the rule-book was rewritten three years ago It was not spotted that AEBBA has absolutely no power to act or apply sanction in the event of any incident outwith the scope of the rules and constitution. This terminology is used on every other committee I act on to cover the unexpected. The AEBBA committee is elected by its members at the AGM and is answerable to those members for actions at the following AGM. Sav [/quote]
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Post by Chris on Jun 5, 2013 20:58:52 GMT
The AEBBA committee is elected by its members at the AGM and is answerable to those members for actions at the following AGM.
The AEBBA committee is not elected each year at its AGM, if it was I missed it. I do though agree it is answerable for its actions annually at the AGM.
I fully support the AEBBA Committee and respect that if it was not for this great body we would not have such great events and totally respect how hard they work with often very little thanks.
I do though feel that we must always ensure, as now with the accounts, total transparency ensuring a balanced decision especially in a possible 'catch all' rule.
Chris
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Post by Chris_Sav on Jun 5, 2013 21:44:56 GMT
The AEBBA committee is not elected each year at its AGM, if it was I missed it. Chris Oh yes they are!! take a look at the minutes. www.aebba.org.uk/agm/2012.pdfSav.
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Post by milko on Jun 6, 2013 11:30:00 GMT
The AEBBA committee is not elected each year at its AGM, if it was I missed it. Chris Oh yes they are!! take a look at the minutes. www.aebba.org.uk/agm/2012.pdfSav. That's because you left before the committee were elected! ;)
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Post by milko on Jun 6, 2013 11:33:59 GMT
Modified proposal to (consider) from (think) but can't see what difference it really makes!
milko
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Post by Chris on Jun 6, 2013 20:21:57 GMT
Then you have missed the point.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2013 15:51:11 GMT
Too late in my opinion
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Post by The Chubbster™ on Jun 10, 2013 16:08:41 GMT
Ok guys I would appreciate an official clarification here.
Reading AEBBA rule number 15, it states that Changes to the Association rules must "Be With" the secretary 21 days before the AGM.
Could we please clarify what "Be With" means? I was assuming that this would be written notification, but does this forum act as the same function?
Also, how can I alert to possible agenda items to be discussed, ones that may well lead to, but not necessarily facilitate a rule change (or at least a discussion of)
Thanks in advance.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2013 19:21:27 GMT
I will offer an opinion here of how I think things work, and then stand by any corrections offered by the "powers that be".
Although there exists a special board under the AEBBA section for urgent communication with the AEBBA Secretary, proposals for consideration at the AEBBA AGM must be submitted formally 'in writing'. The Forum is not seen as being the correct medium, although other counties such as Sussex may consider it ok for their own purposes/AGMs as long as a proposal is visible and has been seconded.
The AEBBA is its "own man" though and has in the past accepted proposals submitted on the back of a fag packet - as being "in writing".
Pete Sainsbury and myself successfully submitted a proposal last year about the new National Off-the-Spot which Pete wanted ratified. This we did by means of a typed page of A4 with proposer and seconder's signatures, sent to Dave Alder under cover of an eMail.
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Post by Chris_Sav on Jun 10, 2013 22:06:00 GMT
Rule 15 covers both the previous questions.
Proposals must be 'with the AEBBA secretary' 21 days before the AGM, this forum is not 'with the AEBBA secretary'. email or letter to him yes and make sure he has received it with a phone call.
The AEBBA secretary is obliged to inform county secretaries of the AGM agenda, you can find out from them. The proposals were also publicised on this forum last year.
Also not too late to correct what was not realised was wrong.
Sav as an AEBBA committee member.
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Post by The Chubbster™ on Jun 11, 2013 10:53:22 GMT
Thanks Sav,
Can I aslo assume that I will be given time under AOB to talk about a "possible" rule change that I would like explored for the future?
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Post by Chris_Sav on Jun 11, 2013 11:31:59 GMT
Thanks Sav, Can I aslo assume that I will be given time under AOB to talk about a "possible" rule change that I would like explored for the future? . Yup, AOB is for discussion purposes as is this forum, but rules cannot be changed or created under either heading. Sav
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Post by The Chubbster™ on Jun 19, 2013 15:14:02 GMT
I read in the 2012 minutes that there was talk of a publicity officer and that it would need a proposal for this years AGM to go through. Is anyone out there planning on making that proposal? I mention it purely because I think it's a great idea and long overdue, so would be interested to know any updates.
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Post by The Chubbster™ on Jun 26, 2013 8:40:23 GMT
One final call to people with regards to the above post. Anybody following this through?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2013 9:52:17 GMT
Ok Glenn, You have underlined something that is supposed to be happening, and doesn't appear to be........and although it's not obvious that it is happening, it is ! Let me first identify a couple of Forum threads which have a bearing on publicity: barbilliards.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=14245&page=1and: barbilliards.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=website&action=display&thread=14027 From this you will be able to see that noises have been made about furthering publicity, following which several volunteers have come forward: As far as I can make out, although no one person has been elected to the AEBBA-sanctioned role, these aforementioned volunteers are all attempting to fulfil the purpose in their own way. We have Dave Alder and Chris Saville; Tony Willis; Chrissie Newson; Dave Ingram; Colin Southouse all visibly getting the message out there. Two important innovations are Tony's Poster advertising this Forum - which I expect you haven't seen yet. And Dave Ingram's regular reminders to all and sundry by eMail of Opens and other National events in the pipeline. Which you probably have. The implication is that the job is too big for any one person to manage - they would have to be committed 24 hours a day and seven days a week. So it's up to all of us to do what little we can to send the message out there. Perhaps you are right though in hinting that progress should be reviewed at the 2013 AGM ! Regards, tommo
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Post by The Chubbster™ on Jun 26, 2013 11:12:02 GMT
Thanks Tommo, I will take a look at the threads.
For an AEBBA publicity officer, I would assume the role would be to vastly "broaden" the range of people we are appealing to, and reach a far wider audience than this forum or emailing lists will. After all emailing lists and this forum are for people who already play Bar Billiards or are at least fully aware and have an interest in it.
I would have assumed this role if created (although I don't know as I was not at the last AGM) would have the primary purpose of attracting new people to the game, identifying the audience that we might appeal to, exploring new ways of communication with said audience, exploring and at least attempting to lease with various publications outside of the Bar Billiards world that might be interested in further getting the word out about Bar Billiards as a whole.
I know that is "Big Thinking" and "overreaching" but that is why I was so excited to read the last AGM minutes, so I hope someone takes this forward and creates this role with these specific purposes in mind. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate all the hard work with regards to this subject that people have put in (And I'm really pleased to learn about the Posters) but the AEBBA as the custodians of our great game surely has a responsibility to find new ways of bringing new people into the game to safeguard it's future exsistance. If I'm right, how are we doing that? Or am I wrong?
I'm probably wrong, I always am lol
(awaiting slapdow) :)
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Post by gandalf the untidy on Jun 26, 2013 13:11:22 GMT
Publicity within the affiliated leagues should not be a problem, league secretaries (or a designated person) should be passing info to team captains already. The key is to get non affiliated venues/teams/leagues affiliated thus expanding the AEBBA unbrella. This is not a job for a roaving troubleshooter to go round the whole country for obvious reasons but certainly someone needs to take the reins and works out a strategy for coordination of efforts..( might be worth me putting this on a tape ::) Anyway for Publicity officer read DEVELOPMENT OFFICER regs cs Why not play some of the competitions on neutral tables in non affiliated venues, they will need to be visited and checked for levels first and permission obtained and tables booked but we do that now anyway, and new people will see the game being played, what better way to "publicize" bar billiards regs cs
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2013 13:47:35 GMT
That really brings us on to this (third) thread, started by Gandalf: barbilliards.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=14131Pardon me for saying so, but all this is 'old hat' - I have become like a parrot, repeating myself about how the Forum is global, attracting interest from other continents; how League websites reach out beyond the influence of the Forum, have thousands of 'hits', attract enquiries - and even business propositions. The AEBBA map of venues has earned us new followers - and friends who now act as our 'agents' reporting back on venues found in obscure backwaters of the country. And of course the 'Four-Pin' variant of the game is gaining in popularity. And I reckon that the standard at the top level has reached the stage where it won't get much better - so many players are now capable of 'perfect play' and speed has now become a factor. Perhaps the questions now should be: - How happy are we with our cosy bar billiards community set-up now, and do we need to protect it at all from outside influences which could turn out to have an adverse effect ?
- Do we now need a professional spokesperson concerned with increasing Media interest - and obtaining sponsorships ?
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Post by BB Warrior on Jun 26, 2013 14:07:42 GMT
Perhaps the questions now should be: - How happy are we with our cosy bar billiards community set-up now, and do we need to protect it at all from outside influences which could turn out to have an adverse effect ?
Sorry Tommo but that has to be one of the daftest comments I have ever seen on here.... ::) .... obviously we don't want to "protect it all from outside influences" although we do need to ensure that the traditions of the game are maintained. ;) [/li][li]Do we now need a professional spokesperson concerned with increasing Media interest - and obtaining sponsorships ?[/li][/ul] [/quote] Great idea.... however AEBBA certainly do not have any budget to employ somebody to do this (unless a major sponsor suddenly appears out of thin air) and I would imagine that most of the (willing) "volunteers" do not have the spare time to do more than they already do.... so, being realistic, nothing is going to happen unless somebody comes forward with time to spare and some new ideas. :-/
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2013 14:26:05 GMT
Perhaps the questions now should be: [/li][li]How happy are we with our cosy bar billiards community set-up now, and do we need to protect it at all from outside influences which could turn out to have an adverse effect ?[/quote] Sorry Tommo but that has to be one of the daftest comments I have ever seen on here.... ::) .... obviously we don't want to "protect it all from outside influences" although we do need to ensure that the traditions of the game are maintained. ;) [/quote] Let me explain: Other sports have been threatened by a number of outside influences, eg the setting up of rival bodies with conflicting agendae. Pool, Chess, Snooker, Football. I used to play in the Pool summer league. 3 years was enough as they kept bringing in new rules each year, detracting from the enjoyment. How would players take it, if, for arguments sake, we were all forced to play "off the spot" ? What if the World Championships were taken away from Jersey ? These are the sort of things I'm referring to as casual examples, dismiss them as 'daft' if you like (what do I care ?) I'm only trying to see the bigger picture and open up the debate for others. I got it instead! LOL
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Post by The Chubbster™ on Jun 27, 2013 17:58:12 GMT
Taking us back on topic... Should we not first get the position implimented and then try and find someone to fill it? If nobody does then fair enough, but I would hate for this to stop dead just because we think it will be hard to find someone. I would refer people to my thread in the general discsion forum barbilliards.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=13754Some ideas I mooted a long time ago. These are smple examples of how we could be branching out. I would assume any formal Publicity or development officer would be interested in these ideas as a way of massivly enhancing our reach. But I can;t stress enough, I would rather everyone agree we need to do something and agree that we should put someone in place to try something, rather than stessing ove what can and can't be done before we have even start. So back to my original question, is anyone taking this forward at the AGM?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2013 19:36:51 GMT
But I can;t stress enough, I would rather everyone agree we need to do something and agree that we should put someone in place to try something, rather than stessing ove what can and can't be done before we have even start. So back to my original question, is anyone taking this forward at the AGM? If the post was agreed in principle at last AGM and you feel that due obligations have not been met, then you should apply directly to the AEBBA Committee for comment. Waiting for the next AGM will only serve to lose you six months. :-/
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2013 21:18:33 GMT
Might be worth me adding a sentence or two since I was one of the more vocal people at last years AGM regarding this topic. I agree entirely that this role is much needed but the harsh reality is this: in order to effect the kind of progress many have highlighted here and elsewhere in the past, it will demand significant change of both approach and attitude. My experience is that there are many that are currently resistant to such change. That said - we have got to the stage where change is inevitable. Rather than my usual jovial bluster I was quite serious at the AGM but felt that first I ought to test some of my thoughts locally before presenting them for national consideration. So, since the last AGM, Pete S helpfully provided me with Simon Tinto's useful assessment of how they changed their league and rescued it from a damaging trend of decline. I have read this, brought it up to date and applied some additional methodologies from my own corporate experience and have started to apply a number of principles in Northants. Some have taken off and others less so at this stage - but these things will not always have an immediate response. Some examples of what I have done locally include: The Northants Bar Billiards Ladder - which Tommo has spotted before - which is a new way of encouraging players to play more regularly. The aim here is to increase commitment. With help from Stephen C we have created a new Northants Bar Billiards Website with a couple of new ideas to encourage new players such as mentoring (the site is VERY basic at this stage but I just wanted to get something up and running - it will be tidied and 'professionalised' in the coming days/weeks). ( Feel free to visit www.northantsbarbilliards.org but be gentle as it is only in the foothills!) There are proposals in this years Northants AGM for significant structural and organisational change all centred around growth of the league (of course the AGM is yet to happen and maybe not all of the proposals will be adopted). I am happy to share some of them though nearer the time. We have managed to increase our sponsorship locally through determined effort and approaching new companies (notably employers of current league players) but with the commitment of giving them credit and quantifiable referrals. Anyway - just a few examples. As I said at last years AGM - I would be happy to contribute more and take on greater responsibility on this matter should a proposal be submitted according to current AGM requirements.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2013 21:41:12 GMT
Admirable advancements in Northants, and very noticeable.
What a shame though that Facebook (I think) seems to have replaced this Forum for a lot of the very profuse Northants posters of the past.
I should have included your goodself in the list of names who are "getting the message out there" - for which I apologise.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2013 22:03:01 GMT
Absolutely no apology necessary - I'm not that sensitive!
What I would add, however, is that I would like to think that the impact of our re-energised league is being seen nationally with more Northants players attending, performing well in (and now actually winning!!!!) Open competitions. You need only compare Northants entries 5 years ago to now and I expect you would see a marked improvement.
Much, much, much more to do however!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2013 22:39:40 GMT
Yes indeed, Northants once more punching above its weight: Life after Fazza, n'est ce pas ? ;D
How do you stand with regard to 4-Pin ? You have an enclave (Wellingborough) right in the middle of your patch - do you feel any need to encourage/extend sponsorship there ? And have you investigated Gedney Hill (Snookerette) which must be near to where you live ?
I say this as you and a couple of others did enter the East Anglian Open, along with two lads from Wellingborough.
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Post by Chris_Sav on Jul 23, 2013 12:33:03 GMT
New proposal added to the first post
That playing in the National Pairs (currently in Bournemouth) be conditional upon residency at the hotel where the competition is being held provided that rooms are available.
Proposed Chris Saville (AEBBA Treasurer), seconded Phil Hawkins (AEBBA Chairman)
Sav.
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Post by milhouse on Jul 23, 2013 17:04:43 GMT
New proposal added to the first post That playing in the National Pairs (currently in Bournemouth) be conditional upon residency at the hotel where the competition is being held provided that rooms are available. Proposed Chris Saville (AEBBA Treasurer), seconded Phil Hawkins (AEBBA Chairman) Sav. Going to be interesting to see number of entries if this goes through.... At a time when money is tight and entries for comps decreasing, proposing more restrictions on entries is only going to turn people away.....
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