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Post by triplex on Jan 30, 2017 17:15:20 GMT
Please find attached the entry form for the 2017 AEBBA 4 Pin Open being ran by Northants
Entries are limited and must be received by the 1st of May
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Post by daveuk1 on Jan 30, 2017 18:15:45 GMT
Can I play on the 20th, I dont like st
Will put a text message out tonight to all the four pin players I think may be interested
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2017 18:30:31 GMT
I'll be there on the twentiest. Have publicised on the three north Sussex websites.
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Post by bigtj on Jan 30, 2017 18:33:12 GMT
PM sent forms on the way TJ
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Post by milhouse on Jan 30, 2017 18:42:52 GMT
I see that this has now been renamed as an AEBBA competition. Has it been resolved if this is a brand new competition or it has replaced the Alternate Rules (Triangles) competition?
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Post by triplex on Jan 30, 2017 19:51:52 GMT
Can I play on the 20th, I dont like st Will put a text message out tonight to all the four pin players I think may be interested I will sack my secretary !!! 😂
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Post by triplex on Jan 30, 2017 19:53:13 GMT
I see that this has now been renamed as an AEBBA competition. Has it been resolved if this is a brand new competition or it has replaced the Alternate Rules (Triangles) competition? Not sure if it's replaced anything, all I know is that it has been endorsed by AEBBA.
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Post by milhouse on Jan 31, 2017 0:20:49 GMT
I see that this has now been renamed as an AEBBA competition. Has it been resolved if this is a brand new competition or it has replaced the Alternate Rules (Triangles) competition? Not sure if it's replaced anything, all I know is that it has been endorsed by AEBBA. OK, if a new competition, will need a meeting with the ranking committee then to decide if ranking points are available
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Post by triplex on Jan 31, 2017 6:20:12 GMT
Im in the understanding that the ranking points will be on the basis of the other Touraments, such as 'off the spot' etc. Which I think is half points.
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Post by barbelman on Jan 31, 2017 8:54:01 GMT
Not sure if it's replaced anything, all I know is that it has been endorsed by AEBBA. OK, if a new competition, will need a meeting with the ranking committee then to decide if ranking points are available Who cares.....
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Post by NigelS on Jan 31, 2017 12:03:41 GMT
Im in the understanding that the ranking points will be on the basis of the other Touraments, such as 'off the spot' etc. Which I think is half points. Whether ranking points are awarded will be decided by the AEBBA ranking committee. It is done on a tournament by tournament basis so not set it stone yet as to whether points will be awarded or not...
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Post by daveuk1 on Jan 31, 2017 20:57:30 GMT
Have to say, for some us ranking points mean nothing, we play for the fun and social side, ok I mean drinking
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2017 12:15:19 GMT
Have to say, for some us ranking points mean nothing, we play for the fun and social side, ok I mean drinking You'd absolutely hate the stop-over events (Bournemouth, Guernsey and Jersey) then !
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Post by Coleman Jnr on Feb 11, 2017 9:08:59 GMT
Entry forms will be available both Saturday and Sunday this weekend.
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Post by triplex on Feb 20, 2017 9:41:42 GMT
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Post by Chris on Feb 20, 2017 19:12:30 GMT
OK, if a new competition, will need a meeting with the ranking committee then to decide if ranking points are available Who cares..... Agree with Tony who cares - maybe Nigel it could be discussed and agreed for next year with the ranking committee rather than worry this year. It is a great event. The event matters more ....
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2017 19:40:19 GMT
“Procrastination is the thief of time.”
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Post by gandalf the untidy on Feb 20, 2017 23:47:35 GMT
I'm sure it can be agreed at Bournmouth one way or the other guys, depends if the AEBBA wants extra money this year or not
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2017 1:11:56 GMT
I'm sure it can be agreed at Bournmouth one way or the other guys, depends if the AEBBA wants extra money this year or not Let's hope so. What those discussing this in Bournemouth would do well to explore is, in the event that the decision is not to award RP's for this event, what is the merit for Northants (or any other host) in making it an AEBBA event. The current way of working appears to suggest that the 'prestige' of AEBBA sanctioned events is entirely connected with Ranking Points. This means that if you remove the latter, you eliminate the prestige of the former. Whilst this may be the way things work today - it does not mean that it should always be so, of course. I would heartily suggest that those organising this event will make it a success regardless of whether AEBBA RPs are attributable or not, as the case may be - but your discussions ought to set out the value proposition for both organisers and the AEBBA.
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Post by gandalf the untidy on Feb 21, 2017 1:42:14 GMT
As i understand it, ranking points should be awarded to AEBBA events depending on the number of entrants, I'm not a member of any AEBBA committee so will have to leave it to the select few to make their decision... or not. but i do wish Northants well
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Post by BB Warrior on Feb 21, 2017 6:40:22 GMT
I'm sure it can be agreed at Bournmouth one way or the other guys, depends if the AEBBA wants extra money this year or not Please forgive my confusion here however, as a member of the AEBBA Ranking Committee, I have no idea why awarding Ranking Points (or not) for this competition should make any difference to AEBBA receiving "extra money" or not? Surely, the table hire fees will be the same as they are for every other county that hosts an AEBBA event (if that is what this is?) along side of a competition of their own? Having read the minutes of the AEBBA AGM last year, I am also somewhat confused as to what was agreed at that meeting as far as the rules for the "Alternate Rules" competition? It would appear from the minutes that it was proposed that this competition could be played under any one of three different formats each year, as follows:- a) When “Triangles” version used: b) When run as “Off the Spot” (hosted in turn by Counties on behalf of AEBBA): c) When run as a “4-Pin” competition (hosted by Counties on behalf of AEBBA): Proposed by: Clive Thompson Seconded by: Colin Southouse Vote: Unanimous in favour and accepted for the 2017 competition. Although the minutes state that the proposal was "accepted for the 2017 competition", unfortunately the minutes do not show which of the 3 formats will be used this year? Looking further down through the minutes of the AEBBA AGM at the AEBBA Competition dates, these show both the AEBBA 4-pin Open being hosted by Northants here and also an "Alternative Rules" being played at the Totteridge Club on 8th October.... does that mean that BOTH "Alternate Rules" competitions will be played this year when it would appear from the AGM minutes that only ONE version should be played in any year or is the "AEBBA 4-pin Open" here a totally different competition that is now claiming AEBBA status? Perhaps someone from the Northants committee could advise if they are simply hosting this competition on behalf of AEBBA this year (and that it may be moved to other counties in the future) or if they intend to make this 4-pin Open a regular feature to be played on the same weekend as the Northants Open every year in the future? That may help to clarify the actual status of the competition? I am confident that regardless of whether this is an "AEBBA" event or another "4-pin Open" in its own right that the Ranking Point Committee will award Ranking Points if it is going to become a regular feature every year and I am sure it will be discussed the next time that the Ranking Point system is updated by the RP Committee.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2017 8:23:46 GMT
"Perhaps someone from the Northants committee could advise if they are simply hosting this competition on behalf of AEBBA this year (and that it may be moved to other counties in the future) or if they intend to make this 4-pin Open a regular feature to be played on the same weekend as the Northants Open every year in the future? That may help to clarify the actual status of the competition?"
Whilst no formal or long term decisions have been made either way, given the feedback the organisers received regarding last year's competition, it made the decision to run the competition this year very straightforward.
Given our location, there is considerable sense in it being hosted in Northants as it may be that we stand a better chance of securing entries from players from East Anglia and York, as was the case last year. My understanding was that this additional reach was one of the elements that made it attractive to the AEBBA.
Last year's competition was not an 'AEBBA event' and there appears to be no significant change in entry numbers (at this early stage) given the assumption that it will be this year. Maybe some sort of certainty around RP's will change that (although I am not sure it will impact it to any significant extent).
There is no reason why an AEBBA competition of this nature could not be hosted by other counties if they so desire - if there is any value in that - and if that is what the AEBBA requires. Nevertheless, being clear on what the benefits are to both parties will still be required.
I suspect the 'additional revenue' comment relates to the payment due to the AEBBA based on entries over and above the table hire, Dave. I believe this payment is due for AEBBA competitions hosted by counties.
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Post by Chris on Feb 21, 2017 15:34:46 GMT
As far as I am aware, and as usual I may be wrong, this event does not replace the Alternative Rules and the secretary will decide on the format for the alternative rules nearer the date.
This is a separate, new AEBBA badged 4 pin event, that was suggested at the AGM.
So I would suggest therefore it will have ranking points by being added to the ranking rules by the AEBBA Ranking Committee - although I am unsure as to why the AEBBA ranking committee part is never discussed at the AEBBA AGM? If it is AEBBA endorsed, then in future maybe it should be so that officers decide with members present, which events carry points for the following year ??
Anyway that aside..
Tables will be provided free on the Saturday for this event as it is an AEBBA event now and will be full price for the Sunday re the Northants Open. Northants are totally aware and accept this.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2017 15:54:07 GMT
As far as I am aware, and as usual I may be wrong, this event does not replace the Alternative Rules and the secretary will decide on the format for the alternative rules nearer the date. This is a separate, new AEBBA badged 4 pin event, that was suggested at the AGM. So I would suggest therefore it will have ranking points by being added to the ranking rules by the AEBBA Ranking Committee - although I am unsure as to why the AEBBA ranking committee part is never discussed at the AEBBA AGM? If it is AEBBA endorsed, then in future maybe it should be so that officers decide with members present, which events carry points for the following year ?? Anyway that aside.. Tables will be provided free on the Saturday for this event as it is an AEBBA event now and will be full price for the Sunday re the Northants Open. Northants are totally aware and accept this. Indeed we do. Thanks.
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Post by NigelS on Feb 21, 2017 21:48:50 GMT
There seems to be some confusion here re Ranking Points....
Earlier in this thread I did make it clear that "Whether ranking points are awarded will be decided by the AEBBA ranking committee. It is done on a tournament by tournament basis so not set it stone yet as to whether points will be awarded or not..."
The fact that it is an AEBBA event does not automatically make the event eligible for ranking points. The AEBBA Mixed Pairs is not a ranking event. With the event being 50% women and 50% men it was considered that it was not appropriate to give it out ranking points in this event. Other events such as internationals, all england team championships, were also considered not appropriate for ranking points
I will be contacting the AEBBA ranking committee with their thoughts on this and will post on this thread our decision. So Chrissie, this is not something normally discussed by the AEBBA officers, it is discussed by the 5 people appointed by the AEBBA who are on the Ranking Point committee. We tend to discuss potential changes every year to keep the system up to date.
The decision will be that it is a ranking event or not a ranking event and if it is a points system will be decided upon. It will have nothing to do with number of entries. The fact that this has become an AEBBA event may have become relevant but also does not determine the final decision.
Once a decision has been made I will inform everyone on this thread. Personally I am looking forward again to the Northants weekend, and whatever ranking points are awarded in the end I am sure it will be a great one.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2017 23:10:35 GMT
I look forward to discussing this very soon then.
Cheers,
Lorin
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2017 0:36:26 GMT
Leaving aside the question of whether or not this is a Ranking event, Lorin mentioned earlier the prestige attached to staging an AEBBA event. All of the AEBBA-run competitions are classed as Nationals - as are County Opens - but with the added prestige of entitling the winner to be called National or sometimes even British champion.
Bournemouth = British Pairs, and we have National Mixed Doubles, and the National Singles run as an Off-the-Spot competition. There are separate mens and ladies All-England championships and age-related events to find National under30 champion and National over 50 champion and a national over 60 champion. And the Grand Prix are in essence a National Masters competition.
Having also the Triangles competition with the accompanying opportunity to become “National Alternative Rules champion” seemed strange to me when in recent years 4-Pin has come to the fore as the most obvious 'other version' of the game: With this in mind I submitted the AGM proposal defining 'Alternative Rules' as any one of three versions which would allow AEBBA the opportunity to embrace the Northants 4-Pin as 'their' event whilst still retaining the flexibility to continue or discontinue the other Alt Rules versions as they saw fit.
Again, the point was made that last year's Northants attracted entries from Yorkshire and also East Anglia, and I was impressed with the AGM's foresight in adopting this popular new event and in doing so affording it national status. We can now look forward to seeing someone crowned 'National (Alt Rules) 4-Pin Champion' although this in itself creates an anomaly………
The spiritual home of 4-Pin is in Suffolk, and their Open must remain as the Prime 4-Pin event of the year. An easy way round this may be for them to adopt the name of 'British' as a sort of parallel with Jersey and Off-the-spot, and there is scope for them in the future to expand the event maybe over a weekend and with the addition of a Pairs competition.
Whichever way you look at it, it is gratifying that our East Anglian cousins now have the attraction of a second event on the calendar to take part in should they wish. And a prestigious one at that.
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Post by Chris on Feb 22, 2017 12:01:07 GMT
The fact that it is an AEBBA event does not automatically make the event eligible for ranking points. The AEBBA Mixed Pairs is not a ranking event. With the event being 50% women and 50% men it was considered that it was not appropriate to give it out ranking points in this event. Other events such as internationals, all england team championships, were also considered not appropriate for ranking points I will be contacting the AEBBA ranking committee with their thoughts on this and will post on this thread our decision. So Chrissie, this is not something normally discussed by the AEBBA officers, it is discussed by the 5 people appointed by the AEBBA who are on the Ranking Point committee. We tend to discuss potential changes every year to keep the system up to date. Thanks for clarifying Nigel - It might though still be worth putting it as an item for the AGM, not to change the way it is done but to state whom it consists of and if they are all still willing to continue, if not then the AEBBA Officers would need to appoint a new member? I don't have a clue whom these 5 are, except you and Dave - just a thought Going back into my burrow now
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Post by JB on Feb 22, 2017 19:11:15 GMT
I'm really confused. Although I was at the Agm (seems ages ago now and lots going on) I was under the impression that the proposal was to change the Alternate Rules (triangles) to 4 pin. After discussion it was agreed that the committee decided which format would be played each year.
I wasn't aware of making the 4 pin comp there is now into an AEBBA event.
It had been a long day and large lunch so may have totally got this wrong.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2017 23:54:41 GMT
That was something separate Jean:
Although part of the agenda, I believe Colin withdrew it after discussion and (rightly or wrongly) no mention was then made of it in the minutes recently pubished.
You are correct when you say "After discussion it was agreed that the committee decided which format would be played each year."
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