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Post by daveuk1 on Feb 9, 2018 0:19:45 GMT
So tonight it happened, Colin Southouse became the second foreign player, joining Chris Saville to become registered as a player in the Sudbury and district league. Colin pulled on the team shirt of the White Horse marathons as they took on the taverners in a mid table clash. It took Colin no time to adapt to the marathons style of play, a full glass at the start of a game and a refill before the end and despite our merry way of playing some how Colin managed to record the highest score of the night as the marathons came out 4-3 winners. CS seemed to get to grips with the narrow top rather well and I'm thinking about revising my predictions for the group One winners at the EA open
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Post by gandalf the untidy on Feb 9, 2018 9:48:10 GMT
So tonight it happened, Colin Southouse became the second foreign player, joining Chris Saville to become registered as a player in the Sudbury and district league. Colin pulled on the team shirt of the White Horse marathons as they took on the taverners in a mid table clash. It took Colin no time to adapt to the marathons style of play, a full glass at the start of a game and a refill before the end and despite our merry way of playing some how Colin managed to record the highest score of the night as the marathons came out 4-3 winners. CS seemed to get to grips with the narrow top rather well and I'm thinking about revising my predictions for the group One winners at the EA open yes if i dont get picked for Sussex this year i could play for Suffolk in the county comps  |
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Post by daveuk1 on Feb 9, 2018 11:44:20 GMT
Hope you enjoyed our relaxed style of play and the sandwiches
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2018 12:22:24 GMT
yes if i dont get picked for Sussex this year i could play for Suffolk in the county comps I just knew there had to be an ulterior motive !  |
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Post by Mark James on Feb 9, 2018 17:42:58 GMT
yes if i dont get picked for Sussex this year i could play for Suffolk in the county comps Yes indeed you could Colin but, if I have correctly understood the rule that was passed at the 2017 Sussex AGM, to do so would mean that you would be banned ”sine die” from all SCBBA events. |
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Post by daveuk1 on Feb 10, 2018 10:04:08 GMT
yes if i dont get picked for Sussex this year i could play for Suffolk in the county comps Yes indeed you could Colin but, if I have correctly understood the rule that was passed at the 2017 Sussex AGM, to do so would mean that you would be banned ”sine die” from all SCBBA events. Surely counties should be encouraging players to play anywhere and promote the game, not banning them for branching out to help others. Suffolk is 4 pin country, as far as I know not a three pin team in sight and therefore without the help of others, unfortunately 3 pin wont even be considered. Four pin is still growing and although our season is still in progress we have already had enquiries from new teams wanting to enter next season. I am guessing that judging by how quick the entries filled up for our four pin open and the number of three pin players entering that players enjoy our four pin game, we have little chance of getting our players to even try three pin on a competive county level if players wishing to help us face being banned from their own competitions. sorry I just dont see the logic but maybe thats because we think of bar billiards as a pub game to be played and enjoyed with a drink or three and not taken too seriously, you try to win but if you lose you shake hands and buy your opponent a drink Please take note that these are my thoughts only and are not meant to upset anyone Dave |
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Post by gandalf the untidy on Feb 10, 2018 18:46:19 GMT
Yes indeed you could Colin but, if I have correctly understood the rule that was passed at the 2017 Sussex AGM, to do so would mean that you would be banned ”sine die” from all SCBBA events. Surely counties should be encouraging players to play anywhere and promote the game, not banning them for branching out to help others. Suffolk is 4 pin country, as far as I know not a three pin team in sight and therefore without the help of others, unfortunately 3 pin wont even be considered. Four pin is still growing and although our season is still in progress we have already had enquiries from new teams wanting to enter next season. I am guessing that judging by how quick the entries filled up for our four pin open and the number of three pin players entering that players enjoy our four pin game, we have little chance of getting our players to even try three pin on a competive county level if players wishing to help us face being banned from their own competitions. sorry I just dont see the logic but maybe thats because we think of bar billiards as a pub game to be played and enjoyed with a drink or three and not taken too seriously, you try to win but if you lose you shake hands and buy your opponent a drink Please take note that these are my thoughts only and are not meant to upset anyone Dave Here is the rule Dave New Rule Proposal.
Entry to SCBBA Closed events shall be restricted to players who do not represent a County other than Sussex in any AEBBA individual or team event during the same calendar year (Jan - Dec).
By taking part in a SCBBA Closed competition, whether or not they have personally signed an entry form, every competitor shall be deemed to have declared that they have not represented, nor will they represent, any County other than Sussex in any individual or team event as defined by AEBBA Rule 47 during the same calendar year as the Sussex Closed event they are entering.
Any player who, having competed in a SCBBA Closed event on those terms is found subsequently to have breached this undertaking, shall be banned sine die from all bar billiards events under the auspices of SCBBA, with no right of appeal.And i Agree with you, though my comment was tongue in cheek I've disagreed with pretty much all the rule changes that SCBBA have implemented recently and have consequently tendered my resignation effective from the next AGM.  I could say a lot more but there would be consequences  |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2018 19:27:58 GMT
yes if i dont get picked for Sussex this year i could play for Suffolk in the county comps No good reason why you shoudn't be picked for Sussex A again after last year being third-best performer for the team which finished runners-up in the top section ? Unless you have some insider information...... |
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Post by gandalf the untidy on Feb 11, 2018 15:54:46 GMT
Another issue would be with only 14 teams invited to the counties as I understand it if Suffolk entered a team it might be that Sussex b would get dropped even though as I remember it they Will be in div 1 this year
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Post by JB on Feb 11, 2018 16:31:29 GMT
Not sure about that
Sussex B would be the first B team invited according to the rules as their in Division 1
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2018 17:07:16 GMT
If you'd fallen out of favour with Sussex you could always take your chance by helping to make up a "Select 7" provided there was a vacancy.
But here again you'd be snookered by having to hoist Suffolk colours as the Select 7 is only for counties who do not field a B team. And as I understand it, the sine die ban would include future Interleague !!!
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Post by Chris_Sav on Feb 11, 2018 18:22:20 GMT
If you'd fallen out of favour with Sussex you could always take your chance by helping to make up a "Select 7" provided there was a vacancy. But here again you'd be snookered by having to hoist Suffolk colours as the Select 7 is only for counties who do not field a B team. And as I understand it, the sine die ban would include future Interleague !!! Interesting hypothesis Clive! Reading through the various rules; The SCBBA 'Closed' rule only appears to apply to individuals Sussex comps, not interleague. The 'Closed Comp' rule says players must not play for other counties, the select 7 is not a county. Anyway, welcome to the second member of the 3½ pinners association Colin |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2018 18:32:42 GMT
The SCBBA 'Closed' rule only appears to apply to individuals Sussex comps, not interleague. Not my understanding of it, Sav. Colin jeopardised his future prospects of playing for Suffolk by having taken part in one of the Sussex Closed Competitions (= Singles) a month ago. The penalty is quite clear: Interleague is one of the competitions run under the auspices of SCBBA. Effectively, by turning himself an outsider his only chance of playing in Sussex would be league matches, or the Sussex Open. |
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Post by gandalf the untidy on Feb 11, 2018 18:35:03 GMT
If you'd fallen out of favour with Sussex you could always take your chance by helping to make up a "Select 7" provided there was a vacancy. But here again you'd be snookered by having to hoist Suffolk colours as the Select 7 is only for counties who do not field a B team. And as I understand it, the sine die ban would include future Interleague !!! Interesting hypothesis Clive! Reading through the various rules; The SCBBA 'Closed' rule only appears to apply to individuals Sussex comps, not interleague. The 'Closed Comp' rule says players must not play for other counties, the select 7 is not a county. Anyway, welcome to the second member of the 3½ pinners association Colin I guess its good to talk. though i'm none the wiser, i suppose as you're not a Sussex player you don't have the same restriction, nothing like 1 rule for you and a different rule for me and another for the select 7!, as mentioned before my comment was tongue in check and as usual glad to see comment on the boards to highlight some interesting points that probably hasn't been considered And thanks Chris, nice to be in this select band of 3 1/2 ers |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2018 11:36:51 GMT
I guess its good to talk. though i'm none the wiser Well, the new rule looks pretty watertight to me, and the ball is entirely in your court: Either you remain 100% loyal to Sussex and can carry on as normal. Or, in the autumn, represent another county and receive an indefinite ban by SCBBA. Whatever your plans are, you may as well go ahead and play in the Masters on the basis of "may as well be hung for a sheep as for a lamb".  |
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Post by gandalf the untidy on Feb 12, 2018 13:30:46 GMT
I guess its good to talk. though i'm none the wiser Well, the new rule looks pretty watertight to me, and the ball is entirely in your court: Either you remain 100% loyal to Sussex and can carry on as normal. Or, in the autumn, represent another county and receive an indefinite ban by SCBBA. Whatever your plans are, you may as well go ahead and play in the Masters on the basis of "may as well be hung for a sheep as for a lamb". still have no current plans to desert Sussex Tommo |
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Post by BB Warrior on Feb 12, 2018 14:47:10 GMT
I was not going to get "involved" in this thread, however in view of some of the comments made here I feel that replies are needed.  Firstly, although I am sure that Colin's original comment was made very much tongue in cheek, some of the subsequent comments have almost taken that to mean he will be not be playing for (or selected for) the Sussex teams this year. At this stage, nobody can predict who will be selected for the Sussex teams this year as that will be decided by the Sussex Committee after the AGM.... it is not even possible to say who will even be in the Sussex Committee that make that choice until after the AGM and obviously different people on the Committee may mean that different players are selected for the County teams in future. As the current Sussex A team captain, I am a member of the Sussex Committee. I am very aware that the new rule (which has been highlighted many times in this thread already) has divided opinions about it however the simple fact is that a MAJORITY of Sussex players that attended the AGM this year voted in favour of this rule. Sussex County Bar Billiards is a democratic organisation and the Rules and Playing Conditions for county competitions are decided by the PLAYERS, not the committee!  I know that Colin did not agree with this rule and has advised the committee that he will be standing down at the next AGM from his position as Vice-Chairman. Personally, I think that is a shame as it is important for any committee to have people that are prepared to voice their opinion, even if their viewpoint is different from others. With regards to the actual new rule itself, the purpose of the new rule was give genuine SUSSEX players the chance to enter their own county competitions to play against other SUSSEX players. We award ranking points in our county competitions and these give players the chance to qualify for the Sussex Masters at the end of each season and also to be considered for the Sussex County Teams. If anybody can tell me what is wrong with that then please do...??  Why should we give more "practice" to top players from other counties by allowing them to take part in Sussex competitions? Why should they be allowed to knock Sussex players out of their own competitions and prevent them from gaining ranking points? The players from other counties have no desire to represent Sussex so why should they play in Sussex Competitions?  With all respect to the other counties, I believe that winning the Sussex singles (which usually has 40-50 entries) is much harder than their competition to qualify for the All England Singles! Obviously, that level of competition means it is effectively a "mini-open" which presumably is why the players from other counties want to play!  Sussex County allow players from other counties to play in our County Pairs (what other county does that?) and we are  that we have teams in our Inter League competition from both Kent and Surrey meaning they have the option to enter teams in 3 different divisions which provide varying standards. Despite all of this, Sussex County are constantly criticised for excluding players.... personally, I am sick of reading that, especially from people that either choose not to play in Sussex Competitions or are not even associated in any way with Sussex!  I appreciate that DaveUK has tried in the past to get interest from Suffolk players to take part in the AEBBA County Championships, sadly without success. It is a pity that the majority of 4-pin players will not support 3-pin events to the same extent that 3-pin players support 4-pin events.....  But, here is a question for DaveUK.... should playing ONE game as a "guest" player in Suffolk make you a genuine "Suffolk" player that represent the county at a ntional tournament? (Yes, I appreciate that it may make someone eligible to play under the current AEBBA Rules, however is it really in the "spirit of the game"?)  Perhaps Suffolk should consider starting a 4-pin county championships? I am sure that a lot of the other counties (including Sussex) would support this and that it would be approved by AEBBA.... after all, we want to encourage people to play the game in ALL of the different formats.  Just to confirm, these are MY PERSONAL OPINIONS, they do not in any way necessarily reflect the views of Sussex County Bar Billiards Committee to please shoot me down in flames if you disagree with my comments.... not Sussex County. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2018 17:28:35 GMT
Suffolk competing on the National stage at 3-Pin is probably several years away, as (they would be the first to admit) they would be the "whipping boys". Much the same way that in the 4-Pin world, Norwich have similarly been daunted by the standard and intensity of the opposition, which I think is a shame.
It should be recognised that the two self-styled "3 and a half pinners" - Sav and Gandalf - have done a great deal to build bridges between the two worlds with Sav sourcing narrow tables, giving advice on mechanisms and table care etc etc, and Colin arranging visits, home and away, between Suffolk and Sussex. A national team challenge has already been introduced (last year, involving four counties) so progress continues at a reasonable rate, with Daveuk1 being the vital link at the other end for Suffolk.
As an ackowledgement to these efforts, I do not see the harm in either of these persons participating in a national event for a county they have registered for, if in doing so it helps that county to get off the ground.
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Post by BB Warrior on Feb 12, 2018 18:55:23 GMT
Suffolk competing on the National stage at 3-Pin is probably several years away, as (they would be the first to admit) they would be the "whipping boys". Much the same way that in the 4-Pin world, Norwich have similarly been daunted by the standard and intensity of the opposition, which I think is a shame. Tommo, I am sure you are correct with what you say. Unfortunately, as it is with most sports, the only way to improve is to play against players of a higher standard, learn from watching those players and then practice, practice, practice! Obviously, we are all different but the simple fact is that when you start playing any game you learn while you are losing and you have to have the desire to improve. As an ackowledgement to these efforts, I do not see the harm in either of these persons participating in a national event for a county they have registered for, if in doing so it helps that county to get off the ground. I would agree that the work done by Gandalf, Sav, DaveUK and others should be applauded and has certainly been responsible for bring the 2 different versions (3-pin and 4-pin) of the game together.... however, I would not agree that justifies them being selected to play for a county where they have "guested" in a couple of games. I would also think that it would still be doubtful that Suffolk would find 5 other players to make up a county team.... or do you then start to allow "other guests" which then really defeats the object of having a Suffolk County team?  I can think of a great number of players from Kent, Surrey, Hampshire, Oxon, Bucks and Northants that have either played regularly or as an occasional "guest" for teams in Sussex.... but it would not make it right (on any level) for Sussex to select any of them for our county team as a result of that. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2018 19:56:53 GMT
I would also think that it would still be doubtful that Suffolk would find 5 other players to make up a county team.... My point exactly. In fact in my post I guessed a Suffolk county side would be years away (although a side for the National Team would only require 3 other players)So all this is really hypothetical and there's not a lot of point in arguing the rights and wrongs from a moral standpoint. |
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Post by daveuk1 on Feb 13, 2018 19:26:59 GMT
Hey my original post was never meant to start a war, it was meant to be a bit of fun, stating that as both sav and Colin have played for the white horse they are now registered in the Sudbury league as white horse players.
As far as three pin goes us Suffolk lot know we stand no chance, playing and practicing 3 pin on a narrow top just doesnt work. I myself have entered a few 3 pin tournaments and as yet have not won a single game. I do how ever feel that if we were allowed to field a couple of guest players who can actually play three pin it may up the interest from a few players around here.
I can see and understand some of the logic of banning players from Sussex tournaments if they are not from Sussex and dont play for a Sussex based team but we all know Suffolk have no chance playing three pin competitively without the help of some others. For us entering a three pin tournamemt once or twice a year knowing we will lose and may only have a couple of shots during the day is hardly going to give us any match practice. I personally have watched some of the good players play and admired the skill and concentration but have to admit there is no fun travelling a hundred miles or so just to be humiliated, so may be for now we should leave it and except Suffolk is a four pin county.
We are a happy bunch down here and appreciate the same people supporting our tournaments every year, but fortunately for us we think of bar billiards as a pub game to be enjoyed by all the players, new and old, good and bad.
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I could say a lot more but there would be consequences 
that we have teams in our Inter League competition from both Kent and Surrey meaning they have the option to enter teams in 3 different divisions which provide varying standards. 
