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Post by milhouse on Aug 5, 2009 20:54:57 GMT
Just money received from Dave Ingram added, so total now stands at £3,850 So, only 50% of the people who said that they would contribute have actually passed the money over.....?? :o That doesn't sound very promising. :'( When is the date that the money has to be in by to ensure that the table purchase will go through? No it is not looking very promising, especially as my request for help has fallen on deaf ears ::) Will be interesting to see how many people turn up to the meeting on the 23rd.....
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Post by Chris on Aug 6, 2009 6:12:25 GMT
We have emailed Dave Alder to say we can make the 23rd but that is looking iffy now due to construction works taking place in the house...
Our cheque went into the post to you yesterday..
Regards Chris and Chris
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2009 7:47:29 GMT
This Sunday at Bucks an opportunity to pull in some more pledges ?
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Post by BB Warrior on Aug 6, 2009 8:21:06 GMT
This Sunday at Bucks an opportunity to pull in some more pledges ? I would have thought that it would also have been a good time to hold the meeting about the tables, when a lot of people will already be there...... including many who haven't made a pledge, but would possibly want to if they had more information about it..... rather than people having to make a special journey to Reading.......... ::) :-X IMHO, there should have been more publicity about the table purchases at the Opens this year..... leaflets could have been included within programs, announcements made and Q&A sessions arranged but, apart from at Bournemouth 6 months ago, the only place that I have seen any information is here on the Forum..... and not everybody uses this regularly.
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Post by milhouse on Aug 6, 2009 13:19:29 GMT
This Sunday at Bucks an opportunity to pull in some more pledges ? I would have thought that it would also have been a good time to hold the meeting about the tables, when a lot of people will already be there...... including many who haven't made a pledge, but would possibly want to if they had more information about it..... rather than people having to make a special journey to Reading.......... ::) :-X IMHO, there should have been more publicity about the table purchases at the Opens this year..... leaflets could have been included within programs, announcements made and Q&A sessions arranged but, apart from at Bournemouth 6 months ago, the only place that I have seen any information is here on the Forum..... and not everybody uses this regularly. To have a special meeting while at an open would cause a schedule to be interrupted or asking people to stay behind afterwards and we all know how difficult that is! The comments (not just yours Dave) about people may pledge money if more information was available - i find this kind of comment unbelievable for the plain reason - how much information do you need ? AEBBA need the money to buy the tables or all the opens will cease to be (apart from Jersey & Guernsey) and you will get your money back within 4 years - to be honest, what other information do you actually need ?? While i am having a semi rant, i also think the amount of England players that have pledged money is shocking to say the least!
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Post by BB Warrior on Aug 6, 2009 14:04:46 GMT
To have a special meeting while at an open would cause a schedule to be interrupted or asking people to stay behind afterwards and we all know how difficult that is! The comments (not just yours Dave) about people may pledge money if more information was available - i find this kind of comment unbelievable for the plain reason - how much information do you need ? AEBBA need the money to buy the tables or all the opens will cease to be (apart from Jersey & Guernsey) and you will get your money back within 4 years - to be honest, what other information do you actually need ?? While i am having a semi rant, i also think the amount of England players that have pledged money is shocking to say the least! Personally, I don't need any more information and have already handed my money over...... as you know Mark. Equally, members of the Forum who regularly read all areas (not just the bits about their own Leagues) will also have seen the answers to most of the questions that have been raised...... ;) The people that I was referring to are those that DON'T access the Forum, but still enjoy the game and maybe enter just 1 or 2 of their local Opens each year. Although I am sure that they are aware that the AEBBA are buying the tables..... they may not be aware of the fact that the AEBBA are raising the money from pledges - or, they may think that the money has already been raised. It would cause minimal interruption to have a brief (20 minutes) meeting at an Open to remind everybody of the current situation regarding the money for the tables..... if leaflets were produced and handed out you would probably not even need the meeting! Even 1 more person making a pledge at each Open this year would have meant over £1,000 towards the target. ::) But, I have seen nothing and heard nothing (officially) at any of the Opens since the meetings at Bournemouth - that, speaking frankly, were a waste of time. >:( :P I would agree that it is a shame not to see more of the "top" players making a pledge however, what concerns me more is that 50% of the people that have said that they will make a contribution still haven't........ and that includes 4 people who are on the actual Table Committee itself!! :o :o :o :P I would also like to know who the 2 "mystery benefactors" are that volunteered to make up the shortfall after the meetings at Bournemouth and if they are still prepared to honour this...... and what interest they would have in the tables in the future?? It is a question that I have asked before...... without reply. ::) ??? ???
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Post by BB Warrior on Aug 6, 2009 14:14:36 GMT
With regards to Marks comment about the England Team players not contributing, it is a point that was raised previously by Sav..... and answered well by Tommo...... The Mens England Captain has offered to help, how many of the team who will have the honour to wear an England shirt in his team have offered? Try looking and see if you can find one in the list. Sav Okay Sav, I'll take up your challenge, but I think you're being unfair on people who aren't regular users of the forum. 1 Kevin Tunstall (c) - has pledged 2 Nigel Senior - does enough to save the game already 3 Chris Reeves - irregular forum user 4 Phil Collins - non-Forum user 5 Gareth Lloyd - irregular forum user 6 steven Sheard - non-Forum user 7 Gary Johnson - irregular forum user 8 Leon Beer -non-Forum user 9 Tony Walsh - non-Forum user 10 Jim Millward - in semi-retirement 11 Paul Sainsbury - irregular forum user 12 (Res1) Mark Brewster - irregular forum user 13 (Res2) Geoff Jukes - irregular forum user 14 (Res3) Richard Wooton - irregular forum user I would ask the question, how many of these guys have been clued in on these plans ? Has a 'save the game' flyer been sent out to all the Counties so that it can then filter down to those who need to know ? I suggest a standard letter of appeal, to be given out at every Open held this coming year. So, the points about lack of awareness for non-forum users and the idea for flyers at Opens were raised SEVEN months ago......before any of the Opens this year. :P But NOTHING has been done about it!! >:( ::)
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2009 14:24:35 GMT
AEBBA need the money to buy the tables or all the opens will cease to be (apart from Jersey & Guernsey) ..........not quite right, as Sussex, Surrey (and possibly Kent also) have the wherewithall to stage Opens using their own tables ! Only as a last resort of course, obviously use of the AEBBA-owned tables would be the preferred arrangement.
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Post by milhouse on Aug 6, 2009 16:00:56 GMT
Some good points there Dave, thanks. Yes in hindsight, a leaflet could and maybe should have been sent out, but a little late for that now!
The mystery benefactors are purely in it to make sure Bar Billiards survive - nothing more. I am trying to pursuade them to "come out" at the meeting.
With regard to the England players, i did not notice that post previously, but still, that post was made in January and as far as i can see, most were at the meeting in Bournemouth. Thanks to KT for his money. Just to point out also, i do not expect any from Paul Sainsbury as he donates money every year for table sponsorship.
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Post by Chris on Aug 6, 2009 16:32:35 GMT
Whilst I was one who would have preffered a letter outlining what was going on...
I feel we need to be careful here... Players of whatever ability enjoy the competitions and therefore use the tables as much as top players...
Re the Committee... Let's not also forget those that put their monies in as time, which in my books is the most precious gift you can give, one of the best examples is Dave Alder... always at Reading for the whole day. I used to do that at Portsmouth many years ago but could not now and without him many competitions would not run..
I am not here to judge others financial circumstances and therefore would suggest that a list is not really the way forward and for those who don't have such monies, just entering competitions may in itself be a financial difficulty. Many of those top players fork out travel to Jersey and play for England this in itself costs them a great deal.
I don't need to know who donates just that regardless of what is raised the shortfall will be made up by them if they are able.
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Post by BB Warrior on Aug 7, 2009 7:31:59 GMT
Some very good points there Chris. ;)
Possibly, in today's very uncertain economy, the sum of £200 is more than many people would be willing to part with for what is just a hobby..... however, maybe they would be more than happy to offer a lower amount (£20-50?) towards the cause as either a Pledge or Donation if the option was open to them....??
I appreciate that this would mean more work to keep track of these amounts, however the combined effect could add a significant amount to the total amount raised. 8-)
If the Table Committee think that this would be a viable option (and it isn't too late?), could a "flyer" be produced for Bucks Open this weekend with a section at the bottom for people to complete with their name & address etc which could then be handed to Mark with their money....??
Just a thought..... ???
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Post by Chris on Aug 7, 2009 12:54:39 GMT
Excellent idea Dave :)
Yes it would cause more paperwork but if the outcome is more monies raised then it would be worth it.
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David.G
Distinguished Member
Posts: 550
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Post by David.G on Aug 23, 2009 15:16:05 GMT
Hello everyone
I have just returned from a meeting held at the post office club in Reading. Although the attendance was very low considering the importance of the meeting, everyone who attended the meeting were left satisfied with the outcome.
EVERYTHING IS NOW IN PLACE FOR THE ASSOCIATION TO PURCHASE THE TABLES
We are now collecting the remaining pledges
IF YOU HAVE MADE A PLEDGE BUT CAN NO LONGER HONOUR THAT PLEDGE, PLEASE TELL ME, SO AS TO AVOID ANY POSSIBLE EMBARESSMENT THIS MAY CAUSE. THIS CAN BE DONE DESCRETELY
It is important that I know the exact amount collected through pledges, as the shortfall needs to be known.
I wish to thank each and every one of you for all your help. not just for your pledge but for talking and probing and pushing and yes for wingeing about the purchase of the tables. You should congratulate yourselves for having this forum and keeping everything updated as to our progress. Yes it has taken a long time to achieve our goal, but we got there in the end.
I have printed a few copies of the agenda from the meeting, If you would like a copy please give me your home address via E-Mail to aebbasec@aol.com
I'm sure 2010 will be a great year for the AEBBA and I for one am looking forward to taking the association into a new era.
My thanks once again
Dave Alder
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Post by SirKT on Aug 23, 2009 15:55:54 GMT
Well done Dave, a positive outcome at last.
I was trying to get on the pro-boards this morning to send my apologies for not being able to attend due to family descending upon us. See you next month
kt
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Post by BB Warrior on Aug 23, 2009 18:16:42 GMT
Very worthwhile meeting at Reading today with plenty of information available and a clear plan of action and all of the costings involved. 8-)
Hopefully the remaining outstanding pledges can now be sent to Mark Trafford to enable the AEBBA to complete the purchase at the Berks Open next month. ;D 8-)
The only slightly disappointing thing was the very low attendance (just 10 people, including Dave & Mark) at the meeting today..... ::) .....but many thanks to those that were there and were kind enough to delay the start slightly as we had been held up in traffic on the way. ::) ;)
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Post by milko on Aug 25, 2009 12:44:08 GMT
Yes, it's good to see that everything is in place for the future of our Local & National tournaments. :)
I would like to thank Dave Alder and the "Tables" Committee for their work in getting this package together.
I have sent a PM to Mark Trafford asking him to update the "Investments received" section, as some of those on the list have now invested.
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Post by milhouse on Aug 26, 2009 12:33:51 GMT
Updated.
I will be making some phonecalls tonight, so will hopefully have more of an update on the rest tomorrow.
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Post by peetee on Sept 1, 2009 17:04:10 GMT
Updated. I will be making some phonecalls tonight, so will hopefully have more of an update on the rest tomorrow. What day is tomorrow?
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Post by milhouse on Sept 10, 2009 10:30:40 GMT
I have updated the investments received. I know that Dave Alder has collected and banked 3 or 4 aswell, but just waiting for confirmation of who he has. Everything is in place and looking good to finalise at Berks on Sunday :)
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Post by milhouse on Sept 11, 2009 17:05:38 GMT
Investors thread updated. Although we have the money in place and the purchase will take place this weekend, those that have pledged money which have not been collected, you can still pass money over as it will help with the running costs.
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Post by barbelman on Sept 16, 2009 11:54:55 GMT
Thanks for that Mark, and thanks for topping the money up - it's a real shame it was necessary. Am I the only one who finds it pathetic that we could not raise this money without you doing so and that there are real surprises in who HASN'T pledged money for the continuation of their Opens, AEBBA comps and Finals Nights. Pathetic indeed. Compare the list of regular Open entrants to the list of 'investors' and there are not that many names common to both.
At least the AEBBA got off it's bottom and did something positive and we should be grateful for that. It's not a perfect solution but it's the only one that was actioned and at least the tables are still in the public domain, and still available to all. To the whingers and penny-pinchers in the game who seem to know the cost of everything and the value of nothing, I hope you feel a little ashamed when next you play in an Open...
(Oh and yes I KNOW there are those who can't afford it and I KNOW there are those who do sufficient for BB already)
cheers Tony
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Post by Chris_Sav on Dec 17, 2012 21:28:57 GMT
For the information of those people who have kindly leant the association funds to make the purchase of the national tables possible.
I have been elected as AEBBA Treasurer and am awaiting the handover of all information from Mark Trafford, the outgoing Treasurer.
As soon as the handover is complete I will be in touch with all of you to discuss a schedule for repayment of the loan (should you wish it repayed).
AEBBA is extremely grateful for your patience in this and hope to commence repayments immediately after the Bournemouth accounts have been finalised in mid March.
Chris Saville.
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Post by BB Warrior on Dec 19, 2012 18:58:53 GMT
For the information of those people who have kindly leant the association funds to make the purchase of the national tables possible. I have been elected as AEBBA Treasurer and am awaiting the handover of all information from Mark Trafford, the outgoing Treasurer. As soon as the handover is complete I will be in touch with all of you to discuss a schedule for repayment of the loan (should you wish it repayed).
AEBBA is extremely grateful for your patience in this and hope to commence repayments immediately after the Bournemouth accounts have been finalised in mid March.Chris Saville. Having read the above, I was surprised to see the following shown in the minutes from the AEBBA 2012 AGM..... :o Full accounts were presented including loans by individuals to the AEBBA. This showed that of the £10,450 received £4,350 has been returned. Of the remaining £6,100 that is held by the AEBBA, some members have stated their intention to gift their contribution to the AEBBA. The new treasurer will contact all people from whom monies were received to clarify whether they would seek repayment (and whether that would be in 2013). Mark stated that the accounts would be able to sustain the remaining repayments in 2013/2014 if required. As one of the investors, I would be interested to know why some money has clearly already been repaid when other investors have not even been contacted? ::) >:( Based on an earlier post when AEBBA was trying to get people to invest to save the tables.... I should make it clear that 'Investors' mean shareholders in AEBBA. It is envisaged that sponsors will be paid back over three years, disasters allowing. Hopefully a small amount of interest should be payable but no fixed amount guaranteed. There is little risk as the table can always be sold on Ebay! .... I would have assumed that ALL investors would be treated equally and be repaid (if required) at the same time, but it would now appear otherwise. Perhaps the Treasurer (new or old) would be kind enough to email me a copy of the latest Accounts? Thank you, in anticipation.
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Post by milko on Dec 19, 2012 19:14:13 GMT
Dave, that £4,350 is the money that Mark Trafford loaned the AEBBA and we were told that it was agreed to be paid back this year at last years AGM.
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Post by Chris on Dec 19, 2012 19:34:46 GMT
Dave
Mark put in an absolutely massive amount re the tables. He has earned nothing on his investment only got his monies back and all are now being offered re Sav.
Chris
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Post by Chris_Sav on Dec 19, 2012 20:22:16 GMT
What has been posted above is correct, It was discused at the 2011 AGM and is in the minutes that a substantial repayment be made to Mark. Without Mark's investment (by far the largest) the tables could not have been purchased.
My only comment as incoming Treasurer is that I intend to prioritise reducing the larger debts to a common level, rather than paying off any single debt initially. If any of the investors particularly need all of their loan repaid quickly I will see what I can do.
There are cash flow problems over the New Year with all the major association bills coming at once, before income is generated from the tables in 2013. I will be looking into this.
I will broaden the members only area of the AEBBA section and there attach a copy of the Treasurer's report, published at the AGM.
Chris Saville. Incoming AEBBA Treasurer.
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Post by Chris on Dec 19, 2012 20:52:11 GMT
Openly and fairly put - Chris
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Post by BB Warrior on Dec 19, 2012 22:36:14 GMT
What has been posted above is correct, It was discused at the 2011 AGM and is in the minutes that a substantial repayment be made to Mark. Without Mark's investment (by far the largest) the tables could not have been purchased. My only comment as incoming Treasurer is that I intend to prioritise reducing the larger debts to a common level, rather than paying off any single debt initially. If any of the investors particularly need all of their loan repaid quickly I will see what I can do. There are cash flow problems over the New Year with all the major association bills coming at once, before income is generated from the tables in 2013. I will be looking into this. I will broaden the members only area of the AEBBA section and there attach a copy of the Treasurer's report, published at the AGM. Chris Saville. Incoming AEBBA Treasurer. Many thanks to those that have replied and clarified the current position.... I certainly have no problem with Mark receiving some of his money before other investors due to the simple fact that without his investment AEBBA would not have been able to purchase the tables. I am not "pushing" to get the money back quickly, I simply thought that the statement issued about repayment seemed to contradict the minutes from the AGM and felt that some clarification was needed. I fully understand now. ;D
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Post by BB Warrior on Dec 20, 2012 8:46:07 GMT
My only comment as incoming Treasurer is that I intend to prioritise reducing the larger debts to a common level, rather than paying off any single debt initially. If any of the investors particularly need all of their loan repaid quickly I will see what I can do. There are cash flow problems over the New Year with all the major association bills coming at once, before income is generated from the tables in 2013. I will be looking into this. I will broaden the members only area of the AEBBA section and there attach a copy of the Treasurer's report, published at the AGM. Chris Saville. Incoming AEBBA Treasurer. Thank you for making a copy of the accounts available, which I have read with interest. Being completely realistic about things.... and allowing for the fact that table hires for 2013 appear to be higher than last year and the (unfortunate but obvious) "black hole" in the Bournemouth Accounts for the last couple of years will not be present in future... :-X .... I do not see that it will be possible for AEBBA to repay more than 50% of the money due to investors next year without leaving themselves without sufficient reserves for any unexpected expenses, such as repairs to the van. :-/ With that in mind, I would suggest that AEBBA consider aiming to repay the 3 investors that provided more than £200 first, which would be a total of £2,050, and then look at the situation before the end of the next financial year to see if any further repayments are possible at that time, with priority given to anybody that would need the money to be returned to them quickly? I am assuming that there is unlikely to be any interest added to amount that is owed to the individuals and would personally not want any interest even if it were available. ;D I would also humbly suggest that AEBBA should not purchase any further additional tables until investors have been repaid as that will only increase the delay in repaying the money further and we are already beyond the initial proposal to repay the money within 3 years. ::)
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Post by Chris_Sav on Dec 20, 2012 9:35:31 GMT
Hi Dave, I had hoped you might have some input on this for a fledgling Treasurer. I also produced a budget forecast for 2013 at the AGM, I'll upload that as well.
The table project is complete with a full set of ten identical tables in AEBBA possession (at my recommendation). The first round leg table has a buyer and the second will be sold when the main set have been used without problem for a couple of tournaments, there is a potential buyer.
Yes you are correct in that full repayment will be difficult in 2013 due to reliability uncertainty over the near twenty year old van and the December cash flow bottleneck which see bills of £3k needing paying. I am also looking into the legality of the use of the van as it would appear that we are operating close to the load limits.
More I cannot forecast at present as the handover has not taken place.
Chris Saville Incoming AEBBA Treasurur
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