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Post by barbelman on Nov 24, 2009 13:14:45 GMT
As fascinating as people's lunch preferences are ;D, would it be possible that the AEBBA AGM agenda is published beforehand along with any proposals or amendments please?
Oxfordshire (and some others) are a county with four associations and hundreds of players and are allocated only two paltry votes at the AGM. It would be good to be able to discuss in advance any contentious proposals and make a considered decision as a County rather than the opinion of who happens to be there at the time, however sensible they may be.
thank you
Tony
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Post by milko on Nov 24, 2009 13:33:40 GMT
As fascinating as people's lunch preferences are ;D, would it be possible that the AEBBA AGM agenda is published beforehand along with any proposals or amendments please? Oxfordshire (and some others) are a county with four associations and hundreds of players and are allocated only two paltry votes at the AGM. It would be good to be able to discuss in advance any contentious proposals and make a considered decision as a County rather than the opinion of who happens to be there at the time, however sensible they may be. thank you Tony Good idea & point Tony, If I had thought of that myself I would have added the fact of only 2 per County to my other proposals, as I think the rule should change to at least 2 per association, maybe even 3. But if more than 2 turn up at the AGM who then decides who the 2 are going to be when we get there?? Mind you if the turn outs of previous years are anything to go by we wont need to worry about it. :-/ Keith.
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Post by barbelman on Nov 24, 2009 13:45:38 GMT
Agreed Keith but I think the apparent apathy is due to the lack of proportional representation to a degree. Last time I attended my mind was made up for me by someone from Northampton ;) and I haven't bothered since. We had had no chance of a pre-meeting discussion but as it was something I didn't feel THAT strongly about then I let it go.
I attend enough meetings in my life and to attend one into which I can have no influence on the outcome is just a waste of a Sunday afternoon. I have stated before that I DO think the AEBBA should be Association based and not by County, thereby giving a fairer representation of opinion across the country and even engendering more enthusiasm for the AEBBA... Well perhaps not but.... ::)
cheers Tony
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Post by barbelman on Dec 2, 2009 18:11:13 GMT
Oh well - it was only a suggestion.... ;D ;D
Has the agenda been sent to County Secretaries at all, may I ask?
PeteE, anyone?
cheers Tony
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Post by peetee on Dec 2, 2009 18:20:01 GMT
Hi Tony No Agenda received from Dave, if I did receive an agenda I would have sent a copy to all other Oxon Secretary's.
All the best Friday ;D ;)
Cheers Pete
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2009 18:39:50 GMT
Agenda ? :o :o :o
I think they make it up as they go along. ;D
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Post by Chris_Sav on Dec 2, 2009 21:31:36 GMT
I've emailed Dave Alder to see if there's a possibilty of the proposals being listed on here prior to Sunday.
Sav.
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David.G
Distinguished Member
Posts: 550
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Post by David.G on Dec 2, 2009 21:40:47 GMT
It appears to me that everyone else seems to know what they are doing and what needs doing, apart from the secretary. ???
If that is the case then I would recommend that everyone else turn up for the AGM so that everyone else can have this thankless and personal time consuming job. ;) so that perhaps even I could spend some weekends with my wife and children :) instead of the endless hours of trying to keep everyone happy by never complaining :-X and always smiling ;D except when banging my head against the proverbial brick wall whilst trying to remember to do the right things at the right time :-/ because fellow officers make no attempt to help or even get in contact just to see if your head is still above water (sometimes I think its just easier to drown and float away down river into the abyss. >:( >:( Inhale.
Do I feel better after that :-/ :) ;D
I've just had a thought :o How about if next year a diary of things to do on certain dates of the year can be produced so that I don't need to rely on my absent memory 8-)
Sorry guys just sounding alound and letting my brain do the talking instead of the thinking. :-X :-X :-X
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David.G
Distinguished Member
Posts: 550
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Post by David.G on Dec 2, 2009 21:48:29 GMT
Proposals are
1) Start times for AEBBA Tournaments to be changed from 12.00 to 11.30
2) All AEBBA Tournaments have entries in early with no entries accepted on the day
3) To change all AEBBA rules with measurements to metric. IE the distance between the spots from 6 & 3/4in to a maximum 7 & 1/16th to a metric equivalent of 17cm to 18cm
4) To change the voting on proposals from 2 per County to 3 per Association.
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David.G
Distinguished Member
Posts: 550
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Post by David.G on Dec 2, 2009 22:03:07 GMT
Sorry, forgot the AGENDA
11.00 Selection Committee meet to select the England Teams for 2010 11.45 Socialise over Dinner 2.15 AGM
AGM AGENDA
Eric Hill to open meeting Roll call & apologies Minutes of 2008 AGM Matters arising Chairmans report by PHIL HAWKINS Secretaries report by DAVE ALDER ;) ;D Treasurers report by MARK TRAFFORD ??? Secretary Honourarium Report on Competition tables by DAVE ALDER Proposals Election of officers International report by KEVIN TUNSTALL Selection Committee Report Competition Dates Other Competition Dates Any other business (Club Food Supply) Chairman to close the meeting ;D 8-)
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Post by Chris_Sav on Dec 2, 2009 22:38:13 GMT
Thanks Dave
Rule changes 1 - 3 are small beer in the scheme of things.
I do not understand rule change 4, what constitutes an association please? what difference would this make to two votes per county?
This will have no effect at this AGM??
Chris.
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David.G
Distinguished Member
Posts: 550
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Post by David.G on Dec 2, 2009 22:53:08 GMT
The changes will not effect this years AGM.
The change to the voting system will mean that a County as large as Oxfordshire has only Two votes but has something like Four Associations within its bounderies. Thereby giving them 12 votes instead of 2 (at least as i understand it) I think the Associations are Oxford, Wallingford, Whitney & Eynsham (Please correct me if i am wrong)
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Post by barbelman on Dec 2, 2009 23:11:47 GMT
Thank you Dave.
I'm sorry that you have got upset during this thread but please remember that this forum is the ONLY channel through which the majority of us obtain any information at all, apart from the results in Nigel's excellent newsletter.
All I wanted at the start of this, and it is not an unreasonable request, was to have the chance to discuss any amendments to the rules with the other associations (or leagues if you wish Chris) in Oxon so that we could distribute our two votes accordingly and democratically...it is now Thursday and too late to do so effectively.
In Berkshire you can simply go to the Reading committee and they can make a decision for the County - this is not so in multi-Association Counties like Sussex, Oxon, Surrey etc.
Tony
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2009 23:36:52 GMT
I can't be there at the AGM so please acceot my apologies.
But I would like to say that IMHO it's worked very well this year with Dave as Secretary with the support of Nigel, backed up by the Forum as a vehicle for rapid contact and arrangements. (See, we moan at 'no agenda' - and almost immediately one appears, as if by magic ! ;D)
In other words, thanks to all concerned for their hard work, much has been achieved during the course of this season.
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David.G
Distinguished Member
Posts: 550
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Post by David.G on Dec 2, 2009 23:37:20 GMT
No need to be sorry Tony 8-) Just a bad hair day :(
Seriously though. I do need to get my act together if the Association is to move forward. I know what I have to do and have some ideas for future discussion. My problem is my memory(or lack of it) :-[ Getting myself organised is a priority that i am working on. I really feel that with a little help from a lot of people I can give the members an Association they can be proud to be a part of instead of feeling like they are mushrooms(Being left in the dark and being fed with B******T) :-X
Next year 2010 is a massive year for ALL ENGLAND and will see it change from a stagnent pond into something more like a flowing spring. But only with the help of it's members can this be achieved.
I am truly looking forward to the challenges ahead.
Best Regards Dave
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Post by barbelman on Dec 3, 2009 7:03:00 GMT
Dave
I can certainly sympathise with the memory thing - I have to write everything down on my phone and to tell me something after 10 pm in the pub is a complete waste of time....... ;D ;D
cheers Tony
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Post by Chris_Sav on Dec 3, 2009 7:06:06 GMT
The changes will not effect this years AGM. The change to the voting system will mean that a County as large as Oxfordshire has only Two votes but has something like Four Associations within its bounderies. Thereby giving them 12 votes instead of 2 (at least as i understand it) I think the Associations are Oxford, Wallingford, Whitney & Eynsham (Please correct me if i am wrong) Two votes per association (league) so that Oxford get 8 votes also means that Sussex will get twenty odd votes and Berkshire two, cannot say like the sound of such imbalance. Rough count from known leagues on the board (may depend on affiliations) means Sussex 22 votes the rest 24. Sav.
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Post by barbelman on Dec 3, 2009 7:56:21 GMT
The changes will not effect this years AGM. The change to the voting system will mean that a County as large as Oxfordshire has only Two votes but has something like Four Associations within its bounderies. Thereby giving them 12 votes instead of 2 (at least as i understand it) I think the Associations are Oxford, Wallingford, Whitney & Eynsham (Please correct me if i am wrong) Two votes per association (league) so that Oxford get 8 votes also means that Sussex will get twenty odd votes and Berkshire two, cannot say like the sound of such imbalance. Rough count from known leagues on the board (may depend on affiliations) means Sussex 22 votes the rest 24. But does that not show how unfair the system has been in the past, Chris? County boundaries mean nothing in BB but leagues and associations do. For example Eynsham are as likely to agree or disagree with Wallingford as they are with, say, Dover and Deal. Just because the first two happen to be in the same county is totally irrelevant. cheers Tony
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Post by BB Warrior on Dec 3, 2009 8:17:28 GMT
Two votes per association (league) so that Oxford get 8 votes also means that Sussex will get twenty odd votes and Berkshire two, cannot say like the sound of such imbalance. Rough count from known leagues on the board (may depend on affiliations) means Sussex 22 votes the rest 24. But does that not show how unfair the system has been in the past, Chris? County boundaries mean nothing in BB but leagues and associations do. For example Eynsham are as likely to agree or disagree with Wallingford as they are with, say, Dover and Deal. Just because the first two happen to be in the same county is totally irrelevant. cheers Tony It all depends on whether you believe that either proportional representation (ie where the most people play the game) or that all Counties are equal, regardless of how many Leagues and players are in each County, is the fairest way to move forward. Personally, I think that giving a vote to each Association (League) would be best, but that they would have to be individually represented at a meeting to enable their vote to count..... so you couldn't have only 1 or 2 people present at a meeting representing "all of the Leagues" for a county such as Sussex or Oxon.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2009 10:11:09 GMT
Two votes per association (league) so that Oxford get 8 votes also means that Sussex will get twenty odd votes and Berkshire two, cannot say like the sound of such imbalance. Rough count from known leagues on the board (may depend on affiliations) means Sussex 22 votes the rest 24. Sav. I have to side with Sav on this one, as his example above demonstrates exactly why the political doctrine of proportional representation would not work in bar billiards. At All-England level it's about Counties and not Leagues. Sussex has sufficient infrastructure to be two counties - East and West - which would still have the luxury of five 'associations' in each. But it suits them/us to remain as one big giant - only paying one lot of affiliation fees. If, some time in the future, it divided into two, then they would be entitled to four votes..... as also they would be to send extra champions to play in the AEBBA Singles and (Team) Watney Mann competitions. All the time they don't, it should be two votes like any other county.
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Post by Colemanator on Dec 3, 2009 11:48:17 GMT
I agree with the two votes per county.
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Post by everybodyshappy on Dec 3, 2009 12:20:43 GMT
Hi, Im fairly new to all of this and would like to know more, could anyone explain briefly the reasons for this, what do the votes impact on, and the need for a change?
as from looking at this if it is something that effects all and not the individual areas then not sure it makes sense to give more votes to any area, as wouldnt this be a case of those areas having more of an impact on all and not themselves?
For instance take football they are have the FA to sort it all out and each team gets 1 vote, just beause one team is bigger then another at this stage does not have any bearing on the rest of the league, and things like financial and areas and squad sizes are not considered as this can change at any time.
I think if something effects all then all should have an equal share but do agree that you should be at the AGM to issue your vote.
Sorry but as i am not aware of the full issues/situation am only saying the above based on what i can see, let em know
Regards
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Post by milhouse on Dec 3, 2009 13:50:20 GMT
Just one thing to note - There are not very many people who attend the AGM, why is this ? Me personally, why would i waste a whole day travelling to Reading where i can have no effect on what goes on because i am not allowed to vote ? Can't say the same for everyone, but this could be a big reason why people do not attend ?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2009 13:56:24 GMT
You have a very good point there, Milhouse.
A better 'alternative system' might be to let everyone who takes the trouble to turn up to have a vote.
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Post by Colemanator on Dec 3, 2009 13:57:42 GMT
Maybe it could be ran instead at either jersey or Bournemouth in the evening, i remember there was a meeting held in the queens this year. At least we will have people there, guaranteed.
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Post by milko on Dec 3, 2009 15:51:44 GMT
Maybe it could be ran instead at either jersey or Bournemouth in the evening, i remember there was a meeting held in the queens this year. At least we will have people there, guaranteed. Hope not, Ian, as we don't want to waste half the evening at one of these outstanding occasions. :-/
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Post by milko on Dec 3, 2009 15:55:55 GMT
I agree with the two votes per county. That's your County votes wasted then, as no one from Northants comes along to the AGM. ::) ;)
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Post by milko on Dec 3, 2009 16:04:40 GMT
Just one thing to note - There are not very many people who attend the AGM, why is this ? Me personally, why would i waste a whole day travelling to Reading where i can have no effect on what goes on because i am not allowed to vote ? Can't say the same for everyone, but this could be a big reason why people do not attend ? Mark, this is what Tony stated in one of his first posts and one of the reasons why I/We wanted to put a proposal forward in the first place, to try and get more people there and also give more members a chance to have a vote. I totally agree with what you are saying. Keith.
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Post by milko on Dec 3, 2009 16:08:15 GMT
A better 'alternative system' might be to let everyone who takes the trouble to turn up to have a vote. This is what I would like to see back, maybe next year!!
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Post by Colemanator on Dec 3, 2009 16:14:17 GMT
I agree with the two votes per county. That's your County votes wasted then, as no one from Northants comes along to the AGM. ::) ;) I am waiting to hear whether the secretary will be going this year. I'm not on any committee, that's why I've still got a lot of friends in the game 8-) ;)
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