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Post by Chris_Sav on Aug 28, 2008 9:28:51 GMT
Table laout for a standard width table slate is as per This link and slate support This link (updated June 2017) Sav. |
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Post by Chris_Sav on Aug 28, 2008 9:32:39 GMT
Two people can move a complete table, but it's easiest with four, one on each corner.
I still strongly recommend unscrewing the external back hinges on a Sams table and separating the top from the bottom. The back hinges on a Jelks are internally screwed and not easily removed.
Table will stand, complete, on end or side quite happily for transport, so long as the table is strapped to the wall of your transport.
When dismantling a Jelks table do NOT pivot the table on the legs when you turn it on end. Lift the back of the table, unscrew the back legs, Lower the back an tip the table to stand on its end, unscrew the front legs and you are ready to go. Make sure the table is locked before you start.
Chris,
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Post by Chris_Sav on Aug 28, 2008 9:34:57 GMT
You should be able to tap them in whether they are plastered (the white stuff!) or not.
You need a very large plastic handled screwdriver and a hammer. The choice of a plastiv handled screwdriver is because is is of a similar hardness or slightly softer than the cup. Thus the cup will not get marked. It also has a curved surface.
A wood one would also do, but that may get marked.
Hold the fat part of handle of the screwdriver over the edge of the cup with your finger under the handle near the stem (shaft). This is so that the surface of the handle is SLIGHTLY inclined, the lower end in the centre of the hole.
Tap the handle with the hammer and move the screwdriver after each tap. You must try and keep the cup as flat as possible or you can ruck the cloth.
If the cup is too proud you can feel the ridge on the edge of the cup and in bad cases a straight edge run over the baize will foul the edge of the cup.
When you can no just longer feel the ridge on the edge it is correct. Do NOT bash them in too far and leave the edge of the slate exposed or the cloth will cut quite quickly with the balls hitting it.
Rucked cloth around the holes often accompanies poorly inserted cups, let me know if you have this problem as well.
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Post by Chris_Sav on Aug 28, 2008 11:09:25 GMT
Presuming a Jelkes table, but the slates are almost the same for Sams. Most slates and wooden front are all in one frame. Some Jelkes have been ‘Samsised’ and the slate surround separated from the wooden insert at the front. The recovering part of the instructions are the same for Sams and Jelkes.
You need a fine good quality cloth, not more than 30oz and not speedcloth, Strachan 6811 Tournament Gold or better still Hainsworth Match.
You need a staple gun with FINE wire staples, such as a Rapesco 53EL Hobby Gun, £30 in a DIY shop. Do not use the normal staples you get with a chippy's staple gun or you will muller the frame after a couple of recovers
Remove the cushion screws and take off the cushions. Look at the length of the screws on a Jelkes. If they are two inch and only protrude through about a quarter of an inch as most are, they have a big propensity to pull out. Contemplate finding some two and a quarter inch of similar thickness (not easy. 2½” are too long). If the screws cannot be tightened you will get a flat bounce off the cushions.
Take out the slate.
It is easiest to do the recovering on a nice large steady flat surface. You need a couple of lumps of four by two or similar to support either end of the slate on the flat surface. This is so that the slate is NOT sitting on the underneath of the cups during work.
Assuming the table is standard and has a leatherette covered wood at the front, remove it. Pull out the staples and free the cloth.
If thin wooden pads are on the outside of the front four holes under the slate remove them carefully and store.
Tap the cup rims gently from the underside of the slate. They normally tap out fairly easily. If not you will need to dampen and chop out the filler first. If you can get the cups out without violence it's much simpler to chop out the plaster after.
Any damage around the hole on the slate can be filled with fibreglass resin. Do not hand sand as the slate is softer than the resin. Use a flat file on the top surface and an oval in the hole.
Any damage to the wood slate surround can be filled with a screwable wood filler.
Cut the cloth a little proud in all directions as it will pull in on the last two sides you attach.
METICULOUSLY clean the slate. Run you hand over every inch as this is the only way to feel anything small stuck to the slate.
Give the cloth a good shaking away from the slate and make sure there is nothing on the under surface.
Offer the cloth to the slate with the knap towards the line of five holes at the top of the table.
Attach with a few staples by one of the 50 holes. (Bar Billiards Ltd start along the front edge, I will comment on this when I have tried it, but it looks a good idea due to the fold in the cloth to the front frame.)
ALWAYS stretching VERY (I mean VERY!!) tight.
Staple towards either end from the 50 hole, pulling towards the ends.
Move to other side. Make absolutely finally certain there are no foreign bodies under the cloth, this is your last chance. Attach with a few staples near the opposite 50 hole, pulling straight across the table
Then staple away from fifty hole to ends pulling diagonally away from the middle.
Finally do the two ends starting from the middle as before. Trim the cloth around the edges with a Stanley knife. Add extra staples if you have stapled too near the edge.
When inserting the cups you must make absolutely certain the cloth is pulled into the hole or you will get a ruck on the edge. This is less likely to happen the tighter you have pulled the cloth. I use 4 mole wrenches and attach them to the tails on the cloth from underside after cutting a star (see below). This is not essential, but I have never had a cloth ruck around the hole since doing it. The cups should be tight in the hole but not too tight. Insulating tape can be used to pad them if the cloth you are using is finer than the old cloth.
Do the holes one at a time to completion as the cloth gets pulled. Again always working from the middle. 100 / 200 / 50’s / 10 / the rest.
The next bit will require a stiff scotch the first time you do it to pluck up courage to stab a Stanley knife through the drum tight baize! At each hole, use a Stanley knife or similar, but it MUST be sharp. Position the slate with the target hole over the edge of the support. Push the cloth into the hole a little, so yiou can see the edges, cut along and across then diagonally to give an eight pointed star. Each cut to finish nearly half an inch from the edge, cut too close to the edge and the cup will not grip the cloth.
Attach wrenches, if available, to every other tail under the cloth. Use a square or circle of hardwood to push the cup in. Keep the cup absolutely flat and tap in with a hammer (keep your feet out of the way!!). If you do not keep the cup flat as you tap it in the cloth will ruck around the hole. Finally positioning of the cups can be done with a large plastic handled screwdriver. Place the handle on the cup rim, slightly inclined and tap with a hammer. The cup should be only just below the surface level. Too high and the ball will bounce off the cup, too low and hard shots will hit the rim of the cloth and cut it. Feel it with your finger, you can tell when it’s just in far enough.
Cushions are easy, just don’t pull too tight. Staple either end and work towards the middlr. At the ends mitres can be carefully bladed to form tails that slot together. Pull the cloth over a corner at the end of the cushion and cut centrally down the flat surface on the end of the cushion. Pull the excess cloth over the cut and slice again to form the tail. Repeating this for each corner on the end of the cushion you can form a nice set of tails that fit together neatly. Impact adhesive these down and staple. Hopefully the cushions won’t need rerubbering.
Most tables have wood surrounds under the slate to support the cups. Easiest option is quick setting dental plaster. Make it up and pour into the cup surrounds. Otherwise fill the surrounds with Pollyfiller, squeezing it well in. You can mould this better to fit the cup rims if you’ve mullered the wooden pads. Replace the wooden pads if necessary. These are only to protect the cup rims as the wooden surrounds on the front four holes of most Jelkes are not thick enough. If you are careful you should not be knocking the cups anyway.
Line markings and spots are on the AEBBA site. If the break finishes up tight, move the red ball spot away from the ‘D’ by half an inch. You can make ‘D’s by using a ‘Compass cutter’ readily available on Ebay (get a good one, only a fiver). Use 'Iron-On' fabric that you can get from any decent haberdashers. Then just iron the 'D' onto the cloth. With a hole punch you can also make spots that will survive ironing this way!
Before replacing the slate make sure the wooden slate supports in the table are tightly attached to the sides. If not loosen off the screws and prise the supports away slightly. Force wood glue into the gap and retighten screws. You normally need to add more screws and clamp to do this properly. This is also an ideal time to check the corner blocks and reglue as above if necessary.
When replacing the slate in the table make absolutely certain there are none of the packing wedges under the slate. If you have an engineers level check the level of the table front to back. Many Jelkes tables sag in the middle. This is an ideal opportunity to superglue a couple of two p’s to the slate support under the 50 holes to flatten it.
Put the packing wedges in around the sides with the slate as central as possible. I often add a couple of two inch screws at this stage to attach the table side to the slate, especially if the side is bowed. It stops any flex in the sides to gives a more even cushion bounce. Drill the outside of the table half an inch below the beading to the width of the screw. Then pilot drill through the slate surround and insert screw.
Screw the cushions back on making sure you get the side cushions the right way around with the wood part of the cushion at the front of the table. Use the better screws, if available, as the cushions must be tightly attached to the table side for true bounce.
Please PM me with any bits you do not understand as I have probably waffled in places.
Sav.
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Post by Chris_Sav on Sept 11, 2008 10:56:51 GMT
After virtually giving up on ideal screws for Jelkes tables I found some Click hereThey are countersunk but that is not a problem, better in some ways as the heads protrude less. Brass 2 3/8 inches number 12 are ideal and far better at holding the cushions that the 2" Bar Billiards Ltd used in Jelkes tables. Sav. [edit June 2017] That company no longer supplies the better screws, These screws are still available on FleaBay though their link may not last |
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Post by Colemanator on Dec 10, 2008 12:04:02 GMT
What about the D size, This has never been fully explained, some tables have smaller Ds than others, yet, if all tables were the regulation size, some shots would be easier than they are now on some tables than others .
I gave a regulation sized D to one team, and they wouldn't put it on, because it looked alot bigger than the one that was on the table.
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Post by Chris_Sav on Dec 10, 2008 18:31:22 GMT
From the rules :P
In practice I think you'll find that 'D's have been cut to 1½ inches radius.
Sav
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andrew
Forum Beginner
Posts: 2
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Post by andrew on Apr 18, 2013 20:25:11 GMT
I am looking for some advice on moving and transporting a table. I am a new member and will shortly be picking up a table. I've noticed it mentioned that it can be transported on its side but also flat, albeit with a steel angle screwed underneath. Bearing in mind that I only want to do this once what is the easiest method?
Andrew
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Post by barbelman on Apr 19, 2013 5:25:37 GMT
I am looking for some advice on moving and transporting a table. I am a new member and will shortly be picking up a table. I've noticed it mentioned that it can be transported on its side but also flat, albeit with a steel angle screwed underneath. Bearing in mind that I only want to do this once what is the easiest method? Andrew What make of table is it Andrew? They all come apart in different ways... Tony |
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andrew
Forum Beginner
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Post by andrew on Apr 19, 2013 9:36:58 GMT
Tony,
It is a Riley table.
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Post by barbelman on Apr 19, 2013 13:54:02 GMT
Tony, It is a Riley table. I think Riley's are like Sams tables, Andrew in that the hinges are exposed at the back so you can unscrew them without lifting the top. Unlock the front of the table with key (if you have one!), unscrew the hinges and the top will lift off (heavy bit). This should be put on it's side in your van and belted securely to the side wall of the van. It doesn't hurt to put blankets/bubblewrap round it. If you lay it flat, vibration and oscillation can cause serious damage to the slate on a long journey apparently. The rest of the table can then be lifted straight in as it is, protected with a blanket or two and secured to stop it sliding about. You can do it with two people, better with three. I am basing this answer on an assumption that Rileys (of which I have no transporting experience) look to be of a similar build to Sam's tables (which I do have experience of). COULD SOMEONE PLEASE CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG..... cheers Tony |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2013 17:37:49 GMT
I completely endorse what Tony said, and if anything a Riley should be easier to manage than a SAMS as the frames are lighter. Yes too to the bubblewrap suggestion, I used that white spongy foam packing stuff as a buffer for mine.
tommo
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benny
Forum Beginner
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Post by benny on Apr 4, 2019 20:04:38 GMT
Hi, I was wondering if anyone could help out with any ways to make moving a table into a new house easier. Excuse my terminology, I'm quite new to the world of bar billiards.
It's going to be a little bit tight getting it into the right room at my new house.
I've got a Jelkes table, restored by Bar Billiards Ltd, and the 'lid' lifts up from the ball playing end. Is it possible to completely remove the lid? I think it might be screwed in at the other end but is there an easy way of separating?
Is it possible to remove the ball tray at the end and what would be the best way of doing this?
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Post by Chris_Sav on Apr 4, 2019 20:49:14 GMT
Ball tray is an easy removal, just four fat screws, two either side wall of the tray and the tray pulls out.
Taking the top off a Jelks is normally far from easy as the rear hinges are concealed, internal and usually the screws very rusty. Much easier to take the cushions off and lift the slate out to aid manoeuvrability.
Make sure you read the earlier post in this thread on leg removal
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Post by Chris_Sav on Apr 5, 2019 7:40:01 GMT
By the way, if you do go to the trouble of taking off the hinges, make a useful job for the future by replacing them with www.ebay.co.uk/itm/141394188263?NEW STAINLESS STEEL 316 HEAVY WING HINGE 100mm x 38mm Excellent hinges that can be screwed externally to the top of the back legs (may need to lose a bit of beading) and easily removed next time. The three ancient small internal hinges are screwed in too close to the edge with very small screws and the rear wall often splits. |
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benny
Forum Beginner
Posts: 2
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Post by benny on Apr 5, 2019 23:05:24 GMT
Thanks Sav! I’ll give it a go.
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Post by Chris_Sav on Apr 6, 2019 7:53:02 GMT
No problem, glad to help. BTW if you possibly can transport the body of the table on its edge if the slate is in it, there is no support at the front of the slate and it will crack under the 'D' very easily from sudden motion.
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