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Post by squirerichard on Mar 21, 2012 16:34:34 GMT
Had another wander around London yesterday evening and found a few tables, also found a few pubs no longer have tables. No tables at: The Trafalgar, King’s Road The Surprise, Chelsea The Gloucester Arms, Kensington Tables still at: The Gallery Hotel, Kensington – an interesting visit made here! The Cheshire Cheese, Temple – excellent pub and games room The Glasshouse Stores, Soho Mark’s Bar at Hix (we think it’s still there, but we didn’t go in, no time left...) Blog post about the trip along with some photos here: hamandeggerfiles.blogspot.co.uk/2012/03/more-bar-billiards-in-london.html
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2012 16:58:29 GMT
Nice one, once again, Richard !
What a charming reception you received at the Gallery Hotel ! Many (myself included) would have been daunted to give that one a try.
You probably saved your wallet some serious surgery by not venturing into Marks Bar at Hix - have you seen the price of their cocktails ? :o :o
I will take the three table-less venues off the Map, and thank you for your continued dedicated enthusiasm!
tommo
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Post by squirerichard on Mar 21, 2012 17:57:45 GMT
Blimey! The cocktails are a bit pricy. Although I bought a pint of coke in The Cheshire Cheese and that was £3.20!!! I had a Courvoisier for my second drink, much cheaper!?
Years of experience of seeking out Crazy Golf courses in the back-of-beyond helps when it comes to venturing into the unknown lol.
Also, I noticed that The Gallery Hotel mentions the "antique bar billiards table" in the brochure/leaflet.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2012 16:18:14 GMT
Thanks Tommo I have now applied to register on your excellent site I did a recce of a couple of others last night: The Bell in East Molesey no longer has a bar billiards table. The barmaid wouldn't confirm or deny this, on the grounds that she didn't know what one was, but I was able to reassure her that she would probably have noticed if she did have one. The Jolly Coopers in Hampton still has one, however, so you've helped me find one in my local area for the first time in years. Many thanks. I also noticed the map point for the Barley Mow in Shepperton is a little awry, being in the middle of the golf course in Coombe, whereas it should be in Shepperton which is 8 miles or so to the west and slightly south. Best regards OB With Old Blue now aboard too, let's take stock of the extent of the project........ Since investigations started 5 years ago, 11 of the 52 reputed venues have been visited and confirmed by our members, and an additional 8 have been found no longer to have a table. This leaves another 33 to be investigated. For a full list of these, and a London-only venues map, visit the thread called List of London Venues. The recent interest in these investigations is noted by Staff and is much appreciated. tommo on behalf of the Forum Staff.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2012 14:46:27 GMT
On the downside, I couldn't find one in the Wellington in Waterloo Rd SE1 when I was there yesterday, suggest delete, unless you know it to be hidden somewhere really obscure OB
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oldblue
Junior Forum Member
Posts: 36
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Post by oldblue on May 5, 2012 19:14:53 GMT
Hi there
Three reports:
1. The Prince of Wales in Hampton Road, Teddington didn't have a BB table when I was in there a couple of weeks ago. Suggest delete.
2. The table in the Jolly Coopers in Hampton was in a bad way when I tried to have a game a few weeks ago. There was a red and only three white balls, which we quickly discovered was probably because the bottom of the potted ball retainer was hanging off at the rear causing potted balls to fall on the floor about half the time. There were no spots and most of the D was missing. There was a tilt backwards and to the right, and it was quite wobbly overall. It was also in a nook close to a wall which made it difficult to play angled shots from the right, though I can live with that. A notice above it ironically announced that it had been a birthday present, presumably to the landlord, and asked people to look after it. A shame as the above problems make it effectively unplayable but wouldn't take much more than a couple of screws, some adjustment and tlc to sort out. I see your map has comments on the quality of some of the listed tables, you might want to put a caveat against this one.
3. Since then I've been worried that the main outcome of my involvement with your site might be to establish that none of the tables listed for my area still exist/are playable. :( However, I noticed today when passing an old haunt of mine, which had then become a wine bar and gone out of business, that it had now reopened as a proper pub again, the Cricketers on Weston Green, Thames Ditton, KT7 0JX. It has also acquired a new looking three pin BB table, on which we had a good game. I am particularly delighted to get this pub back, with a BB table - it was where I originally learned to play the game about 24 years ago! :) Please add.
Thanks OB
Great report providing much useful information which has been used to update the map and also the Surrey venues thread - tommo
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2012 19:30:17 GMT
Hi there There wasn't one in the Roebuck on Richmond Hill earlier today either, and the barman didn't know what bar billiards was. Shame, because it's an excellent pub. There is still a BB table in the Rose of York in Richmond, however - I had a game on it earlier today. It is a modern table in good condition, except the timer isn't working at the moment and there are no spots or D marked out. For £1 for 30 mins play they gave us a box with the four pins and balls, etc. I assume this means it's a four pin table rather than three (as it currently appears on the map) though I don't actually understand whether there is any difference between the two other than there being an extra pin (perhaps someone could educate me on this). As we've never played 4-pin and there were no spots, we just ignored the red pin and positioned the three others in the same places we always do. OB Thanks for the report, always sad when we have to remove a venue from the map, but great when we have one confirmed. It sounds as if the pub is part of a brewery chain, and the table supplied is the 'Supreme' make, as favoured by the controlling company who would see themselves as responsible for any maintenance. They tend not to bother with stuff like leather D's and spots - or sinking pockets ! And of course unless it is an actual League venue (none in London, sadly !) then it will just be viewed by brewery, pub and customers alike as a 'novelty' and will not receive much in the way of TLC. The choice of 3-pin or 4-pin is entirely up to you, although 4-pin really is in the minority - played seriously in East Anglia, parts of Northants (Wellingborough, specifically) and not-so-seriously in the north of England. A batch of tables were made which are longer and narrower than usual especially for the 4-Pin game. Accordingly points are far more difficult to come by on these tables, and scores of 3000+ are virtually unheard of.
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oldblue
Junior Forum Member
Posts: 36
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Post by oldblue on Jun 4, 2012 18:26:43 GMT
Thanks Tommo
I'm still not quite sure whether the table in the Rose of York should be marked on the map as a 3-pin or 4-pin table (or indeed whether it matters). Is there any defining difference in the table itself? The Rose of York's table wasn't marked out for either version, but it seemed to me to be similar and I'm pretty sure was the same size as the one in the Cricketers, which is marked out for the 3-pin game and has three mushroom-shaped pins. So I was slightly surprised to see the extra red mushroom. Or might it be that they are both actually the slightly longer and narrower ones that are meant to be used for 4-pin? Though it seemed to me that shots off the cushions still went where I'd always expected them to go on tables I'd played on previously, which I'd not expect if the dimensions were significantly different. I am just wondering if there is a simple way by which I ought to define tables I find as either 3-pin or 4-pin.
I also wondered (a) whether rules for the 4-pin version are available anywhere online (I have a game planned on a 4-pin table elsewhere, but have never played it before), and (b) if the landlord (of the Rose, and I was also thinking of the Jolly Coopers) was agreeable, what's the easiest/cheapest way to get D and spot markings, complete with foolproof instructions on exactly where to place them?
Grateful for any advice on these.
OB
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oldblue
Junior Forum Member
Posts: 36
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Post by oldblue on Jun 4, 2012 18:39:05 GMT
I also just noticed that the Bedford Arms in Croydon is still on the list of London venues though it doesn't seem to appear on the map. Is that one still uncertain (as I could fairly easily check it out sometime in the next week or so)?
Rgds
OB
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2012 19:02:13 GMT
I also just noticed that the Bedford Arms in Croydon is still on the list of London venues though it doesn't seem to appear on the map. Is that one still uncertain (as I could fairly easily check it out sometime in the next week or so)? Rgds OB Ah the Bedford. quite near to Selhurst Park. My notes tell me this one came off the map due to this report from 2010: fancyapint.com/Pub/london/bedford-tavern/2715
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2012 19:20:14 GMT
I also wondered (a) whether rules for the 4-pin version are available anywhere online (I have a game planned on a 4-pin table elsewhere, but have never played it before), and (b) if the landlord (of the Rose, and I was also thinking of the Jolly Coopers) was agreeable, what's the easiest/cheapest way to get D and spot markings, complete with foolproof instructions on exactly where to place them? Grateful for any advice on these. OB Best way to answer this is to give you the following link: www.sdbbl.co.uk/page/rules.htmlThe website is for the Sudbury league which is the longest-established 4-pin league and covers Suffolk and over the border into Essex. You will see that they have given a little diagram of where to place the pins. With regard to whether 3-pin or 4-pin should be played, this tends to go by area (When in Rome etcetera). So for example although the table in the Three Moles in Selham is a long, narrow table, with 4 mushrooms, to play on it I would hide one of the mushrooms while I attempted to play 3-pin on it - as it's in Sussex !
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Post by Q on Jun 5, 2012 15:26:03 GMT
Is there any defining difference in the table itself? The Rose of York's table wasn't marked out for either version, but it seemed to me to be similar and I'm pretty sure was the same size as the one in the Cricketers, which is marked out for the 3-pin game and has three mushroom-shaped pins. So I was slightly surprised to see the extra red mushroom. Or might it be that they are both actually the slightly longer and narrower ones that are meant to be used for 4-pin? Though it seemed to me that shots off the cushions still went where I'd always expected them to go on tables I'd played on previously, which I'd not expect if the dimensions were significantly different. I am just wondering if there is a simple way by which I ought to define tables I find as either 3-pin or 4-pin. OB The easiest way to tell the difference between the two types of table is to look at the 'diamond' formed by the 200, 100 & 50 holes, on a standard 3 pin table this diamond isn't equal, the 50's being slightly further forward, whereas the 4 pin version has a perfect diamond. You can sometimes tell by the pockets values, the back row on a 3 pin goes 30, 20, 10, 20, 30 but a 4 pin goes 10, 20, 30, 20, 10. the only problem with that difference is that it has been known for people to relabel the holes to make it 'regular'
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2012 23:30:42 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2012 10:27:09 GMT
Tables still at: The Gallery Hotel, Kensington – an interesting visit made here! The Cheshire Cheese, Temple – excellent pub and games room Confirmed with this further evidence of bar billiards at the Cheshire Cheese: www.flickr.com/photos/psyxjaw/6865749735/
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Post by Chris_Sav on Jul 11, 2012 11:30:46 GMT
Tables still at: The Gallery Hotel, Kensington – an interesting visit made here! The Cheshire Cheese, Temple – excellent pub and games room Confirmed with this further evidence of bar billiards at the Cheshire Cheese: www.flickr.com/photos/psyxjaw/6865749735/Cheers Squire Richard you are doing a grand job and thank you!! I would say that is 'Supreme' evidence of a bar billiard table . Sav.
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Post by squirerichard on Aug 13, 2012 22:48:32 GMT
Reading a copy of the 'London Drinker' I picked up I noticed an advert for the "Brodie's 4th Birthday Bonanza" at the King William the Fourth in Leyton. The advert listed Bar Billiards and Pub Games and having a look on the pub's website there is further info on the new addition: www.williamthefourth.net/
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2012 23:11:25 GMT
Reading a copy of the 'London Drinker' I picked up I noticed an advert for the "Brodie's 4th Birthday Bonanza" at the King William the Fourth in Leyton. The advert listed Bar Billiards and Pub Games and having a look on the pub's website there is further info on the new addition: www.williamthefourth.net/ Thanks, Squire Richard, The William IV already appears on our Map, but I'll colour it in now on the List of London Venues as 'confirmed'. Regards, tommo
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Post by Chris_Sav on Aug 14, 2012 8:25:14 GMT
Twenty real ales @ £2.35 a pint, a micro brewery, crumpet and a BB table!!!
I feel a train ride coming on ;D ;D
Sav
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2012 20:56:24 GMT
Randomness Guide to London has done an update this year and confirms bar billiards at the following venues:
Amersham Arms Done Old Dairy Done Royal Albert - which one Clive? Royal Oak Done
Could a 'Mod' yellow them in on the List of London Venues thread please ?
Cheers, tommo
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Post by Q on Aug 20, 2012 14:17:27 GMT
Randomness Guide to London has done an update this year and confirms bar billiards at the following venues: Amersham Arms Done Old Dairy Done Royal Albert - which one Clive?Royal Oak Done Could a 'Mod' yellow them in on the List of London Venues thread please ? Cheers, tommo
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2012 16:32:04 GMT
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Post by Q on Aug 20, 2012 22:44:18 GMT
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oldblue
Junior Forum Member
Posts: 36
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Post by oldblue on Sept 2, 2012 11:16:04 GMT
The Green Man in Bedfont (well, Hatton really) didn't have a BB table when I was in there a couple of weeks ago
However, the Barley Mow in Shepperton does still have one- I had a few games on it yesterday
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oldblue
Junior Forum Member
Posts: 36
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Post by oldblue on Sept 15, 2012 10:57:28 GMT
There isn't a bar billiards table in the Merchant on Battersea Rise any more, though the bar staff told me they did used to to have one, when I was in there last night
Squire Richard seems to have the knack of finding most of the ones that still exist, whereas most of the time I seem to find the ones that don't!
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Post by barbelman on Sept 15, 2012 11:12:10 GMT
There isn't a bar billiards table in the Merchant on Battersea Rise any more, though the bar staff told me they did used to to have one, when I was in there last night Squire Richard seems to have the knack of finding most of the ones that still exist, whereas most of the time I seem to find the ones that don't! Thanks OB - I'll remove it from the map. One day you'll find one..... ;D Tony
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oldblue
Junior Forum Member
Posts: 36
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Post by oldblue on Nov 19, 2012 20:17:10 GMT
The Eel Pie in Twickenham no longer has one either - I was there yesterday :(
Removed by Tony W 20.11.12 - many thanks OB
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2013 23:27:14 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2013 15:43:31 GMT
During our day out in London yesterday Margo and I actually visited the Ship in Lambeth - and had a go on the table ! It is indeed an original (pre-war) Jelkes: one which, according to the knowledgeable barmaid, is a former B-B Ltd of Ascot rental, which the pub now owns. It is on free-play but the bar is permanently lifted, and the barmaid was happy to hand over a box containing the balls and pegs. The table remains in excellent condition, is nice and level apart from being set slightly downhill, and "700 and off" soon saw 6k on the scoreboard - much to the surprise and consternation of two lads watching. The Ship looks small from the outside but is like a tardis - massive inside. A wonderful aroma of cinnamon greets the customer. There are some defects in the wooden floor, which allow you to see down into the cellar below ! The table is however up against a wall meaning masse shots would be needed for any off-the cush shots to the left-hand 50. There is no overhead light. We had intended to eat there but the evening meal menu was extremely pricey and did not contain anything that really took our fancy anyway, so we decided to investigate the other potential b-b hostelry within range - the Steam Engine.
The Steam Engine, just off the main Kennington Road, proved to be well worth the visit. Happy Hour extends from 4pm to 7pm and it is £2-95 a pint. There is no sign of bar billiards, a pool table only. But we shared a piping hot giant four-cheese pizza on a revolving stand for which, along with the pints gave me change from fifteen sovs, so I'm not grumbling. The concert was brilliant and we were back in Crawley before midnight. Super day.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2013 20:59:43 GMT
Twenty - yes twenty ! - hitherto unknown London venues with a bar billiards table, as claimed by Fancyapint.com: Greenwich Pensioner, 2 Bazeley Street, Poplar, E14 0ES College Arms, 807-811 Forest Road, Walthamstow E17 4JD Bishops Finger, 9-10 W.Smithfield, Smithfield, EC1A 9JR Clerkenwell House, 23-27 Hatton Wall, Farringdon EC1N 8JJ Prince Edward, 38 Parkhurst Road, Holloway N7 0SF Monarch, 40 Chalk Farm Road, Camden NW1 8BG Bodhran, 3 Vivian Avenue, Hendon, NW4 3UT Chequers, 20 Church End, Hendon, NW4 4JT Anchor Tap, 20a Horselydown Lane, Bermondsey SE1 2LN Angerstein Hotel, 108 Woolwich Road, Charlton SE10 0LE Lord Hood, 300 Creek Road, Greenwich, SE10 9SW Morpeth Arms, 58 Millbank, Pimlico SW1P 4RW White Horse, 94 Brixton Hill, Brixton SW2 1QN Normanby, 231 Putney Bridge Road, Putney SW15 2PU Green Man, Wild Croft Road, Putney Heath SW15 3NG Fox, 167 Upper Richmond Road, Putney, SW15 6SE Antelope (ex-Jack Beard’s), 76 Mitcham Road, Tooting SW17 9NG De Hems Dutch Café Bar, 11 Macclesfield St, Soho W1D 5BW Old City Arms, 107 Hammersmith Bridge Road, Hammersmith W6 9DA Three Bells, Terminal 3, Landside, Heathrow Airport, Heathrow TW6 1ADWe had just about halved the remaining investigations to be done on London, but this has restored it to the original figure ! :o
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oldblue
Junior Forum Member
Posts: 36
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Post by oldblue on Feb 14, 2013 17:34:43 GMT
You saved me a trip to the Steam Engine, thanks Tommo, it was next on my list to check out.
Re: the new list from Fancyapint.com, a couple we can quickly knock off: - the Morpeth Arms in Pimlico doesn't have a table (just checked) - the Three Bells at Heathrow T3 didn't when I checked a few months ago - I recall it was on the map before, though I can't seem to find the thread where I reported it missing.
I may be able to check out the Tooting and Putney ones fairly soon, if so will let you know what I find. I'm not overly expectant that website will have got much right, but who knows...
Regards
OB
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