British Isles Off the Spot Open

[milhouse]

As most of you are probably aware, there has been discussion on another thread about starting up a British Isles Off the Spot Open.

I have pencilled in a date of 24th June for this, so am running a poll to find if there is sufficient interest.

A few details

Will be held in Oxfordshire
Trophies for at least Semi-Finals onwards with prize money (Q/F's depending on entries)
Plate Compeition

So please state on here if you have interest in entering and if you know of people who do not go on the forum, please state their names if interested, so i can get a rough idea of numbers

Thanks
Mark

[milhouse]

Interested people....

Mark Trafford :)

[milko]

I think it's a good idea but would like to see it played on a Saturday, I would also think that this would be better for any Channel Island player that wanted to enter ?

Keith

[bigjimsilverfox]

yep  ;)

[BB Warrior]

Jan 19, 2012 16:24:32 GMT milko said:

I think it's a good idea but would like to see it played on a Saturday, I would also think that this would be better for any Channel Island player that wanted to enter ?

I agree.... and would definitely be interested in playing. ;)

I hope that this takes off, but I'm a 'maybe' for the moment. :-/

[milko]

Jan 19, 2012 16:24:32 GMT milko said:

I think it's a good idea but would like to see it played on a Saturday, I would also think that this would be better for any Channel Island player that wanted to enter ?

Keith

Jersey players can also fly straight to Oxford Airport. The Airport has run once weekly flights to and from Jersey for the last 3 summer's but from May 8th in conjunction with Manx2.com they will be doing once daily flights, every day, all year round (Single) for £49.95 in May and £54.95 in the summer.

So, perhaps the venue could be in Kidlington ? at the Exeter Hall ?

Let's now see how many UK & CI players are interested in having this tournament ?

[milhouse]

I can certainly look into holding the event on a Saturday if the numbers would not suffer (I know it doesn't impact the Oxon Open)

I would expect the Exeter Hall would be too expensive to host an event?

[milko]

Jan 20, 2012 14:32:11 GMT milhouse said:

I can certainly look into holding the event on a Saturday if the numbers would not suffer (I know it doesn't impact the Oxon Open)

I would expect the Exeter Hall would be too expensive to host an event?

It is!!!!!! :o

[Ian Gordon]

Jan 20, 2012 15:45:02 GMT milko said:

Jan 20, 2012 14:32:11 GMT milhouse said:

I can certainly look into holding the event on a Saturday if the numbers would not suffer (I know it doesn't impact the Oxon Open)

I would expect the Exeter Hall would be too expensive to host an event?

It is!!!!!! :o

Keith

It's the high class citizen's that we have in Kidlington ;D

Ian

Jan 20, 2012 16:08:36 GMT Ian Gordon said:

It's the high class citizen's that we have in Kidlington ;D
Ian

For such a high-class event in Oxfordshire and not attracting riff-raff, surely nothing less than Blenheim Palace should do? :o

[milko]

Jan 20, 2012 16:48:55 GMT tommo III said:

Jan 20, 2012 16:08:36 GMT Ian Gordon said:

It's the high class citizen's that we have in Kidlington ;D
Ian

For such a high-class event in Oxfordshire and not attracting riff-raff, surely nothing less than Blenheim Palace should do? :o

It would probably be cheaper than the Exeter Hall ! ???

[JB]

There's been discussions on here recently about the dwindling numbers entering opens and we've seen a few in danger of folding.
I know a few people who now pick and choose which ones they play as, apart from the cost, people also have family and other commitments.
You may think I'm against the idea but if the majority want this to go ahead then I've not got a problem with that.

BUT what I have got a problem with is the date that's been pencilled in . 24th June ! Only 2weeks after the Sussex Open ! At the moment opens are spread out but I can definately see problems with this. A lot of people would probably only enter one of them as they are so close together.(I know I would)

I'm sure this would affect entry numbers of the Sussex Open and personally I feel we should be looking after and supporting the competitions we already have.

Also another thought that crossed my mind was that as its in June would AEBBA think about putting the Guernsey international on this weekend so that Guernsey players could enter which again would take numbers away from Sussex Open (alternate years)

[enzo]

Jan 20, 2012 19:03:12 GMT JB said:

24th June ! Only 2weeks after the Sussex Open !

Jean has a point, I can think of at least 10 people from my teams that would be interested but I would imagine they would chose one or the other.

[milhouse]

Jan 20, 2012 19:03:12 GMT JB said:

There's been discussions on here recently about the dwindling numbers entering opens and we've seen a few in danger of folding.
I know a few people who now pick and choose which ones they play as, apart from the cost, people also have family and other commitments.
You may think I'm against the idea but if the majority want this to go ahead then I've not got a problem with that.

BUT what I have got a problem with is the date that's been pencilled in . 24th June ! Only 2weeks after the Sussex Open ! At the moment opens are spread out but I can definately see problems with this. A lot of people would probably only enter one of them as they are so close together.(I know I would)

I'm sure this would affect entry numbers of the Sussex Open and personally I feel we should be looking after and supporting the competitions we already have.

Also another thought that crossed my mind was that as its in June would AEBBA think about putting the Guernsey international on this weekend so that Guernsey players could enter which again would take numbers away from Sussex Open (alternate years)

Have you got any figures to back up these comments ?  From what i can see, the Sussex Open has not been affected by dwindling numbers or if the Guernsey International has been held at the same venue the night before

2011 - 108 Entries
2010 - 103 Entries
2009 - 107 Entries

So there has been a difference of 4/5 entries depending on the International and considering there are usually around 12 people from Guernsey coming over, the stats appear to show there are still people who want to enter? How many people were on the reserve list last year ?

[Sir Chancelot]

Totally radical suggestion here, which will get short shift with some of you guys.
But may be worth considering.

Hold a British Isles off the spot open, but hold/combine it with a different established Open each year.

This may attract new players to Opens they would not normally attend if the incentive was there.

I'm glad you suggested that Norman, because you are one of the Guernsey contingent who have made an effort to come over in the past to play Pompey Open and Sussex Open - as well as the Internationals. And if you give it a lukewarm reception, what hope is there for the rest of the Islanders?

I can be included in Jeans assessment here:

Jan 20, 2012 19:03:12 GMT JB said:

I know a few people who now pick and choose which ones they play as, apart from the cost, people also have family and other commitments.

Although Mark is to be commended for putting his head above the parapet in saying he'll organise this long-clamoured-for competition, and his intentions are honourable, there is nothing so far in the proposed format to fire the imagination, and let us think that this will turn out to be anything other than just another one-day competition for the top players.

The attraction of the Jersey and the Guernsey competitions is that they are held in a beautiful setting and combine the chance of a holiday weekend with plenty to do outside of the event's arena.

The only equivalent setting on the mainland that can come close to this is the Bournemouth Pairs.

So I got to thinking, and this will not be popular with those who habitually enter this event..............Why not, for 2013 onwards:

1. Bournemouth from now on to be the British Isles (Off the spot) Open, incorporating also the BIOC Mixed Doubles. Held over a whole weekend.

2. The AEBBA Pairs moves from Bournemouth up to Oxfordshire, held at a smart venue as a one-day event, and administered by Mark Trafford & Co.  Habitual entrants would not then lose their competition and would have the best of both worlds, with a separate 'Bournemouth'.

There is nothing written in stone to say that the All England Pairs has to be at Bournemouth for ever, when it started out it was held at Eastbourne ! And I'm sure Eric wouldn't mind, he'd get not only the best players taking part, but also married couples for the Mixed Doubles who normally wouldn't bother (such as Margo and myself !)

Come on, let's all look at the bigger picture, the new event needs to be a two-day affair, held by the seaside to allow it the stature it deserves!

[JB]

Perhaps I didn't get my point across properly.
I wasn't particularly talking about Sussex open when I said about dwindling numbers it was just in my mind that I'd read on here that some opens we're struggling to get the numbers needed to make it viable. (Was Kent not in danger of cancelling last year ? )

I just think that if this new comp was held too close to another open that it would affect the numbers entering.
As enzo said there's approx 10 of them who would probably choose to play in only one of them.

Last year there were 3 people on the reserve list. Because of late dropouts none of these didn't play as they had made other arrangements by then and on the day I ended up dragging in 3 people to make up the numbers.

Just to make it clear I would feel this way if this comp was put so close to any other open

kidlington sports club in yarton lane has a good hall

[bigtj]

I must agree with Jean that it must not impact on other events, and although I would be one who would definitely enter, do not wish to see efforts being made by others to run their already established events being undermined.

[Chunky Monkey]

Its a No from me :o too close to the Sussex Open and what with moving house not long ago, would struggle with funds for two opens in the same month :'(

Good Luck tho, Hope it does take off (just not in June) ;)

[SirKT]

I think it`s time to add my bit.
I do agree that we should have a British Open and preferably Off/On the Spot.
As for the timing, I think June is a poor choice. It would certainly cause players to choose between the Sussex Open and possibly the Kent (if this were to revert to early July).
The favourite for me would be early April, in place of the Pompey Open (unless it comes back on the circuit of course), you would just have to avoid Easter every year. I`m sure that with Chris & Chrissies input and contacts, they could come up with a decent venue, hotel etc.

[adam147]

I agree with KT, I would play if it was held in early April but not June.

Too many Opens/comps are held in the summer in my view, I know the balance of weekends is hard to find, but it would be nice to have a few more open competitions during the main winter Bar Billiards season. I play cricket Saturday and Sunday every weekend in the summer so all the May-September comps are write offs.

British Isles off the spot open does sound like a good idea though :)

[Chris]

As Kevin has mentioned us...

I could provide a free venue.  However not a hotel. Or we could work on a venue hopefully with sponsorship that reduced drink prices. Or a hotel but those down here large enough are mainly chain hotels with high hire prices.

I don't know what Brian and Mary are going to do next year and I won't say that we would do anything, unless they don't want to do another Portsmouth Open they come first in terms of an Open.

Downsides
Free venue does not provide sponsorship
Good priced drinks great but not set in hotel location although could get one within walking distance
Find a venue that is a good hotel with facilities to hold this at a good price...  But you are looking at April and this area is popular at that time so prices are high

Chris'sl

[Chris]

Should have said that I personally would not do two in June and would stay with the Sussex if we are able to enter

Chris

[enzo]

Jan 21, 2012 15:42:49 GMT tommo III said:

...Bournemouth from now on to be the British Isles (Off the spot)...  

Why not hold the BIOC singles on the same weekend as the Bournemouth pairs and run it like the World Champs over the whole weekend?
Bournemouth is already a Friday-Sunday stay, so it's not like people have to fork out any more money than they already would be.

This would draw in more people, especially the islanders as there is 2 events in one weekend and helps with the financial and family situations as you aren't paying for 2 separate competitions on 2 different date.. both for players (think travel, time off, money) and the AEBBA (think tables, venue hire etc).


Just an idea ;)

[BB Warrior]

Jan 27, 2012 8:45:39 GMT enzo said:

Jan 21, 2012 15:42:49 GMT tommo III said:

...Bournemouth from now on to be the British Isles (Off the spot)...  

Why not hold the BIOC singles on the same weekend as the Bournemouth pairs and run it like the World Champs over the whole weekend?
Bournemouth is already a Friday-Sunday stay, so it's not like people have to fork out any more money than they already would be.

This would draw in more people, especially the islanders as there is 2 events in one weekend and helps with the financial and family situations as you aren't paying for 2 separate competitions on 2 different date.. both for players (think travel, time off, money) and the AEBBA (think tables, venue hire etc).


Just an idea ;)

When I first read this post..... I thought what a good idea. 8-)

But I then started to think about the logistics of fitting that many games into the weekend.... :-/
If you restricted the Pairs to 64 and didn't have a Plate Competition (as per Jersey), allowing for 8 tables (yes, I know AEBBA have 9) you would still need 4 Series of Double games for the first round (3 hours), 2 Series of Double Games for Round 2 (1 hour 30), 1 Series for Round 3 (45 minutes) which takes you to the Quarter-Finals (45 minutes), Semi-Finals (4 games, so 1 hour 30) and Final (1 hour 30).  That's 12 hours of playing time for the Doubles without a Plate.

I suppose you could try to play the First Round of the Doubles on the Friday evening, but that doesn't take into consideration the people who would only travel down to Bournemouth after they have finished work.... probably about 3 hours from Oxford and Kent, maybe longer on a busy Friday rush hour. :-/

If you played the "Off the Spot" as Single Leg Games for the first 2 Rounds, you would still need 4.5 hours for these if you had 128 entries and a further 3 hours to fit in Double Games up to the Quarter-Finals which would be the first time you would have spare tables to possibly play the Pairs Quarter-Finals.... assuming none of the players had reached that stage in both Competitions.... :o

Running a Plate in the Singles (you would have to do that) would add another 6 hours of Full table playing time to reach the last 16 of that.... :'(

Add that lot together and you end up with too many games to fit into too few hours available.... the reason it works in Jersey is that they use 12 tables, can start at 7.30pm on Friday evening, play Saturday evening and into the evening on Sunday.... when most people have usually gone home from Bournemouth by late afternoon. :D

Sadly, I can't see that working.... but if there is somebody out there who can work out the schedule to let us play it, I would be all in favour of the suggestion. 8-)

Personally, I think it would be a more sensible idea to play the AEBBA Mixed Pairs during the Bournemouth Weekend (which may benefit by getting more entries as we are all there) and then using the October date to play the Off the Spot Championships.... which would give us all a nice bit of practice before the World Championships in Jersey! ;D ;D

Jan 27, 2012 10:15:03 GMT BB Warrior said:

When I first read this post..... I thought what a good idea. 8-)

We have three "good ideas" here, but instead of forming a united front, we're all working against each other:

My proposal:
New BIOC Singles and Mixed Doubles at Bournemouth in Feb/Mar, moving the BIOC Pairs for either Oxon or Pompey to organise (for early to mid-April);

Enzo's proposal:
Add new BIOC Singles to existing Bournemouth Pairs;

Warrior's proposal:
Add Mixed Doubles to existing Bournemouth Pairs; new BIOC Singles in October.


There is a common theme, though, which is not only to include Bournemouth in any plan, but to enhance/expand the Bournemouth experience for the future. Put simply, Bournemouth is already a dual-day event and is the prime venue on the mainland. But as a competition it is now behind the World Championship Pairs (Jersey) in the pecking order, and deserves to be elevated.

[milhouse]

I think that any ideas of having the competition held in April need to be put from mind unless we know that the Pompey Open is definitely not going ahead anymore because if it comes back for next year, which we all hope it will, then we are back to square one for the Off the Spot tournament in not knowing when to hold it!

With only around 70 entries for the Pairs over the past couple of years, i don't see why the competition cannot be completed on the Saturday and then have the off the spot on the Sunday?  I know this extends both days, but it will be no different to any other tournament.  Plate tournaments will still be able to go ahead with the exception of the first couple of rounds of the plate will only have to be one game.

Thoughts ?

I don't see the off the spot being held in October time would encourage anyone from Jersey/Guernsey coming over so close to the World Championships, but holding it at the same time of the Pairs will encourage them to attend as they would have two competitions to enter.

While there is something to be said for 'if Jersey can manage to fit it all in, then why can't we ?' I also subscribe to BB Warrior's thoughts that the logistics would be just too great.

There are many who enjoy Bournemouth 'just the way it is' and might not relish it all becoming too intense. Eric Hill the main organiser might also find the extra constraints put on him to be just too stressful.

I can't see any de-merit of my idea the gentler arrangement of Singles + Mixed Doubles for Bournemouth and a separate BIOC Pairs. Especially as it should solve the problem of the diminishing interest in the Mixed Doubles, usually held in Reading but cancelled last year.

Can anyone tell me why this wouldn't work ?