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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2010 14:37:19 GMT
Any detailed information anyone has on the old Crawley League, which disbanded in 1990, will be welcome. This is the sum total of the records I have at the moment: docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0Ata1Y76hpZMwdERSQ0hWLUNRSDJWbzN3VHZpd0R0UGc&output=htmlI could do with knowing any runners-up - if anyone can remember them! - and also Final League tables from 1980 onwards (when I left the League to go back to Horsham) - and of course Singles Champions 1980 - 1990 (Andy Finn and Shaun Morris both won it a few times, but in which years ?) I have put Crawley Club A as the League Champions for the final six years of the league's existence, this is purely from memory and is open to correction !
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2010 21:51:18 GMT
Steve King has kindly provided me with some detailed information which has enabled us to plug some of the gaps, but we could still do with knowing the following:
1. The runners-up in the League to Crawley Club between 1980/81 and when the league folded in 1988/89.
2. Who won the League in 1983/84 and 1986/87 when the Crawley Club were 'only' runners-up.
3. Division 2 winners and runners-up between 1980/81 and 1984/85 (the last year they had two divisions).
4. Mens Singles winners and runners-up between 1980/81 and 1985/86.
5. The same for Ladies Singles up to 1988/89 and any other competitions including Highest Break/Score.
6. Any Final League Tables (apart from for the 3 years that I was able to supply).
So, anyone with past associations to the Crawley League - all information gratefully accepted, even if it's just a question of jotting down details from your pots won - or adding a comment "that year I/we played so-and-so in the Final".
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2010 11:49:40 GMT
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Post by specialone on Oct 9, 2010 8:18:21 GMT
Hi Tommo Never won the Crawley Singles, just a boy trying to play against old established players, Turner Thompsom etc, in those days. 1981/82 lost final to Peter Gibbs, having been one up. Earlier in the evening my brother Neil and myself lost the doubles to Gibbs and Warren. Was one up in the final against the 'irish ringer', went on to loose again. Can't remember the year, but was the last game I played in the Crawley league. Found a few trophies. Rocket div 2 champs 78/79. Rocket div 2 RU 81/82. Interleague C 78/79. This was the first year of the C division. I captained a team of young players plus 2 older players from the Moonraker, Derick Carlton and Les Collet I beleive. The youngsters included, Alan Downes, Trev Leonard, Tim Haynes, Neil Morris, and Ian Tocker, who only played once. Hope this helps
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Post by specialone on Oct 9, 2010 9:02:43 GMT
Think you might be able to add Dave Evens To the team, not sure. Who did we play? Portslade were the early pace setters, also a young team. Can remember going to Billingshurst, pub just out of town, 5 Oaks? We won the title away at Eastbourne. Can remember Rick Langridge, league sec, telling me the Rocket had won div 2 that night. Often A,B,and C, all travelled together on a coach. Played Brighton at a pub just down from the station. Think we played Haistings at the 'Beach'. The trophy was presented at Roffey Club on the same night Notts Forest won the European Cup. Who else we played and the rest has yet to resurface in my mind
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2010 9:14:54 GMT
Thanks Shaun, that's great. Plenty for me there to sift through.
I can piece together what remains of the league's history by the old star performers looking up their old trophies. John Turner has promised similar, when he can get up in his loft. But he added that there are so many up there that he 'might be gone some time.' ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2010 9:25:58 GMT
I captained a team of young players plus 2 older players from the Moonraker, Derick Carlton and Les Collet I beleive. Hope this helps There was a Derek and Les who played for the Moonraker, but it was Derek Carter and Les Parkinson. Would it be them ? Also, can you tell me which team Tim Haynes played for ? I would like to add the teams and I think I know all the others.
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Post by specialone on Oct 9, 2010 10:33:47 GMT
Hi Tommo Yes you are right about the Moonraker 2. Tim Haynes played at Peas Pottage. That puts him at the Grapes or the Black Swan, Grapes I think. His mum Peg, had a flower shop in Peas Pottage, and sold flowers outside my betting shop on Saturdays. His Dad played, can't remember his name, but often played in a pinstripe suit. Daryl Skinner may remember, think he played at the Grapes in the same era. Shaun
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2012 16:27:26 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2013 10:28:23 GMT
Still trying to piece together the old Crawley history, and a very high percentage of this lives on in the engraving on old trophies donated to other Leagues upon its disbanding - which were then re-dedicated.
An example of how this is of use is the yellow-highlighted trophy above which has recently come into my possession ! ;D
I am now able to list the Crawley winners which can now be submitted to the webpage I am running:
1981/82 Jim Grant 1982/83 Jim Grant 1983/84 Andy Finn 1984/85 Jim Grant 1985/86 Andy Finn 1986/87 Peter Fisher 1987/88 Steve King 1988/89 Dave Evans
Any information future recipients of the above perpetual awards may have as to "Crawley" names before the re-dedication time will be gratefully received.
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Post by iang on May 18, 2013 18:55:21 GMT
Hi Tommo. I have been away on buisness yesterday but I do have some good news for you. I have in my possesion both of the spoons.
The Roy & Jeannette Lane spoon is engraved from 1970/71 when is was presented up to 1988/89 Con Club A
The Percy Wales Spoon was presented in 1953/54 & goes up to 1983/84 then jumps to 1993/94 Cricketers then 1995/96 Ashinton SC.
Neither have been presented by HDBBL during my term.
I will bring them along to The Masters so you can take them to get the info.
I'm unsure why they weren't used.
Ian.
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Post by iang on May 18, 2013 19:33:18 GMT
Crawley & District Bar Billiard Knock out cup presented by AG Mitchell. Re dedicated as HDBBL Mixed Doubles Runner up. Earliest record is 1992/93
Fred Lanaway Cup rededicated to Team Plate Runner up.
1962/63 The Fox 1963/64 Plough A 1965/66 B League 1966/67 Crown B 1967/68 Crown A 1968/69 Half Moon 1969/70 Handcross SC 1970/71 Prince Albert A 1971/72 Black Dog 1972/73 Cherry Tree 1973/74 Plough TB 1974/75 Plough TB 1975/76 Plough TB 1976/77 Brewery Shades 1977/78 Brewery Shades C 1978/79 Brewery Shades 1979/80 Star 1980/81 Crawley Club 1981/82 Crawley Club 1982/83 Crawley Club 1983/84 Longleys 1984/85 missing 1985/86 Redifusion 1986/87 Crawley Club A 1987/88 Ceawley Club B 1988/89 Windmill A 1989/90 missing
1991/92 Crawley Club A
Watney Cup rededicated to Mens Singles Runner up.
Earliest record is 1973/74 R Tarratt Five Oaks & has info up to & beyond 1990 but not what would seem to be Crawley League Ie 1987/88 Clive Thompson Railway, 1989/90 P Gibbs YMCA unless the base was changed
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2013 19:36:25 GMT
Hi Ian, I'm pleased that the spoons are safe and sound, they are nice items and hold a lot of history, but the information on them is not much use to the Crawley web page as I am only recording winners/runners-up. From what you say they were presented to the bottom teams in Horsham for a while and then the decision made not to bother. What I would like to do is bring my notepad with me to the Horsham Finals Night and take the Crawley details from the following cups which were re-dedicated to Horsham:The Watney Cup (Mens Singles Runner-up) (no useful information contained)
The Whitbread Cup (Ladies Singles Runner-up) (attempts being made to track this one down)
The Charity Cup (used I think for Team Plate Runner-up) (- information provided - the ex-Fred Lanaway cup)
A good start, and leaves me 2 Billingshurst, 6 Mid Sussex and 1 SCBBA one to scrutinise. Cheers, tommo
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Post by iang on May 18, 2013 19:39:31 GMT
Hi Ian, I'm pleased that the spoons are safe and sound, they are nice items and hold a lot of history, but the information on them is not much use to the Crawley web page as I am only recording winners/runners-up. From what you say they were presented to the bottom teams in Horsham for a while and then the decision made not to bother. What I would like to do is bring my notepad with me to the Horsham Finals Night and take the Crawley details from the following cups which were re-dedicated to Horsham: - The Watney Cup (Mens Singles Runner-up)
- The Whitbread Cup (Ladies Singles Runner-up)
- The Charity Cup (used I think for Team Plate Runner-up) (- not the enormous Horsham Charity Cup which is now for Team Plate Winners)
That will be a good start, and will leave me 2 Billingshurst, 6 Mid Sussex and 1 SCBBA one to scrutinise. Cheers, tommo Charity Cup has no Crawley info on earliest record is 91/92 Horse & Groom A
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Post by iang on May 18, 2013 19:41:12 GMT
The Whitbread Cup Ladies Singles runner up I have been trying to track down for several years :(
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2013 19:57:42 GMT
Thanks Ian, You'll see I've crossed the Watney Cup off the list, as you intimate, some skullduggery with either change of plinth for a same-sized cup, or a new plinth commissioned ! The old Crawley engraving would have been retained by the final Crawley administration as of more interest there than to Horsham and to save confusion !
Same thing applies to the Mitchell Cup used to improve the Mixed Doubles from an eggcup !
The info you have provided on the Fred Lanaway is brilliant - I had nothing from 1983/4 onwards and can now add those years.
The Charity Cup (showing the Horse and Groom as the first winners) is a red herring - that is the huge cup which I commissioned from Rossiters of Bognor at a bargain price - never was a Crawley one. But Crawley's charity cup we used as Horsham's Charity Cup Runner-up (destination unknown).
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Post by iang on May 18, 2013 20:08:23 GMT
Hi Ian, I'm pleased that the spoons are safe and sound, they are nice items and hold a lot of history, but the information on them is not much use to the Crawley web page as I am only recording winners/runners-up. From what you say they were presented to the bottom teams in Horsham for a while and then the decision made not to bother. What I would like to do is bring my notepad with me to the Horsham Finals Night and take the Crawley details from the following cups which were re-dedicated to Horsham: - The Watney Cup (Mens Singles Runner-up)
- The Whitbread Cup (Ladies Singles Runner-up)
- The Charity Cup (used I think for Team Plate Runner-up) (- not the enormous Horsham Charity Cup which is now for Team Plate Winners)
That will be a good start, and will leave me 2 Billingshurst, 6 Mid Sussex and 1 SCBBA one to scrutinise. Cheers, tommo Charity Cup has no Crawley info on earliest record is 91/92 Horse & Groom A You have confussed the matter some what with different statements The enormous one is the Horsham Charity Cup now uesed as Team Plate Winners Team plate runner up is the Fred Lanaway Cup
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2013 20:29:04 GMT
You have confussed the matter some what with different statements The enormous one is the Horsham Charity Cup now uesed as Team Plate Winners Team plate runner up is the Fred Lanaway Cup No, all is clear now. Big Horsham Charity Cup = never a Crawley Cup = now Team Plate Winners (I've never claimed otherwise). Fred Lanaway Cup = Crawley's up to 1989/90. First became Horsham's Charity Cup runner-up (first winners just happened to be Crawley Club A). Later became the Team Plate Runner-up when the Charity Cup competition discontinued.
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Post by iang on May 18, 2013 20:43:09 GMT
Yes all clear now also tied up the Charity Cup Runner up (knock out Cup) which has noc Crawley info on.
It was references to Charity Cup winners /Runers Up & then the Horsham Charity cup which was then dropped and then used for team cup/plate. It is a real shame that the Team Cup runner up has gone missing.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2016 14:33:16 GMT
On the bespoke "Crawley Page" within the Horsham website I have added a link to a further page which attempts to list all known venues that ever competed in the former Crawley & Dist Bar Billiards League - and whatever fate befell them ! docs.google.com/document/d/19lxPToWUtMa1ZfQxqfSrbWMkHBDqhSjc0Je69Gq7aic/pubResearching these has been an interesting task, and has thrown up many surprises. For example it only seems like yesterday that we visited Ken and Pauline Brown at the Smallfield Hospital SC to play, yet I find that the whole hospital was shut in 1983 with facilities transferred to Redhill (East Surrey) - more than 30 years ago !!! There are bound to be a few errors or omissions, as I only played in the Crawley League for three seasons: so please advise of any you may find. The biggest challenge has been trying to establish what happened to the many Social Clubs associated with either the airport, or firms on the industrial estate (many of whom were subject to takeovers or relocations outside of Crawley).
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2020 19:59:51 GMT
This is the only thread I can find specific to the former Crawley League - although all the history I can find is well documented on its bespoke page within the Horsham website.
So I put this sad news here for those who played in the Crawley League and will remember the name:
TERRY HOBBS has sadly passed away. Another good old boy gone. From memory he played in a team with Tim Locke and Ken Strevett - possibly from the Charcoal Burner or the Crawley Club. *
Anyway, Margo spotted his obituary in this week's Crawley Observer. His funeral is 3.45pm on Monday 24th Aug at Worth Crematorium.
* [edit - Plough Three Bridges, mid-1970's : Terry Hobbs, Tim Locke, Jim Grant, Snowy Dooner, Ted Dooner] (Source of info: Johnny Haigh, 26/8/20)
Postscript - Terry lost his wife about 10 years ago and became a recluse. As he had no family his entire estate (c. £300,000) was left to a dog sanctuary in South London.
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Post by NigelS on Aug 24, 2020 9:17:49 GMT
Hi Tommo
I think my dad said he first picked up playing bar billiards in the Crawley league. He then picked up playing in Brighton in the mid 90's and a couple of years later got me into it.
Is there any evidence in your records of him playing in the league? I doubt it as not sure he was winning any singles trophies or playing inter league etc, I wouldn't really be sure of what sort of years but probably early 70's (before I was born!)
Nige
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2020 21:05:30 GMT
Hi Nigel, Not sure that I'm able to be much help here. I only played in the Crawley League for 3 seasons (1977-1980) and before and after was heavily involved with the Horsham League which also played on Tuesday nights.
I was 'poached' for the Brewery Shades team by (the late) John Turner who wanted to do his damnest to prevent was was essentially a Brighton team (Tupper, Elliott, Dave Lewes, Harry Leeson) based at the Prince of Wales, East Grinstead from winning the League. This we did by ONE POINT, but only after Harry Leeson had been sacked by the PoW half-way through the season for a petulant outburst: he got a transfer to us instead and won all the games he played for us in the second half !!!
I didn't meet your dad during that brief spell, but there are several stalwarts of the Crawley League like Steve King, Peter Gibbs, Barry Timson, Rick Langridge etc who may remember him. I think you mentioned your dad before and all we were able to establish was that he played for The Downsman. But we are talking 1970's or 1980's as the League disbanded in 1989 and the Downsman wasn't one of the teams which came across to the Horsham League and so hasn't had bar billiards since that time.
Regards, tommo
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2020 18:05:58 GMT
Crawley Museum have provided this photo from the 1970's of bar billiards being played at Langley Green Youth Club:
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Post by tommo III on Dec 6, 2021 22:52:41 GMT
A trawl through the National Press Archives, using 'Crawley Observer' as the search filter, has turned up this on the origins of the League. (I will follow up with a list of the founder members) An interesting find (when similarly researching Horsham) is that the Sun Hotel, Swan and Brewery Shades started off in the Horsham league but left to join the newly-formed Crawley League in 1953.
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