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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2006 19:22:00 GMT
Okay, nostalgia time again.
Who - when you were starting out to learn this most difficult of games to play well - was a major influence ?
I think the name Dave Elliott will come up a lot in Brighton. Simon Tinto (Redhill/Surrey/ex-England) says he owes much to Alf Hunnisett. There was a character called Jim Wenman who used to wear a suit and a pork pie hat who was legendary around Mid Sussex. Reg Beard was also influential for many.
When I started playing as a teenager I was a bundle of nerves and had a jerky cue action. I marvelled at how this character who looked like an old farmer had a beautiful, smooth style of play and appeared to be able to knock in five or six thousand at will. His name was Doug Covey and he still plays the odd game even now though he claims the old eyesight is failing. I eventually signed for the pub's B team and Doug was star player in the A's along with a much younger chap called John Martin, who was an absolute master of the 50 shots. Any knowledge I gained in my formative years was down to those guys.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2006 19:49:43 GMT
Well for the first years of Bar Billiards my dad taught me loads. However at the time we were both learning. The real edge came when in 2001 I met a fellow called Phil Buckle.
He is one of the biggest players in our league today. He is a kind bloke offering to train me in his free time (even this Saturday maybe)! He doesn't hold back on the knowledge he has about the game which helps loads. He taught me the split shot, and taught me about spin on cushions and what effect it has! I was getting good at a steady rate playing at the Axe & Compass. However the real fun started when my debut match for the White Swan at the Reading Team Championships last October, I met Sav and watched Mr Walsh get an unstoppable break. Then I played my 4 games and won 2 8-) Should of won 3 but didn't :'(
Phil has taught me so much and so has my dad, without them I would not be half the player I am today. Phil on Monday helped me out when I lost positioning on the one up shot!
I also learn from the forum too, my biggest help from this place is Kevin Pringle. He however has teached me the mental side to the game and has helped me soo much. KP is the man for that stuff!
And lastly I hope KT and some other big names will help me out on my quest to being Number 1 on Sunday!
That is my view on my teachers!
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Post by NigelS on Sept 14, 2006 20:52:09 GMT
My dad introduced me to the game in around 1996. He restarted the game after meeting Tim Scotney and he used to play in the Crawley league. At the time I was at Southampton Uni and only came back for the holidays so only watched a few games
In Oct 96 my dad rang me up about playing bar billiards in the league. I said sounds like fun, so he said I should give Marc Chipman a ring as he played for the Queen Vic B team. I thought that was a bloody cheek as my dad played for the A team at the time - didn't he think I was good enough for the A's!!! In fairness the B team were short of players and I really enjoyed my first season with them, Marc Chipman and I are the only players left from that team now. A guy called Mike Blomfield was our captain and was quite a good player and we won div 3 in our first season.
So my dad taught me the basics of the game and we used to practice a lot round Brighton. He taught me the split shot (even though he doesn't play it himself!) and my game really moved up a gear when I started playing that. I have then learnt alot from players like Steve Mariner and Jim Millward when I got the chance to play with them for Brighton A in about 2000. I have and do learn a lot through watching other players as well.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2006 21:41:33 GMT
Thanks Johnny and Nigel, Nigel - what team did your dad play for in the Crawley league ? It was quite a thriving league at the time of Portslade's heyday also. Agreed that you can learn so much from watching good players and noting what shots always seem to work for them and adapting them into one's own play. Trying to teach Margo some tips at home I shout at her "the Gibbsey" or "the Timson" when she appears hesitant. Adding a name handle to a particular shot helps to fix it in the mind, I find. ;)
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Post by fazza on Sept 15, 2006 7:50:40 GMT
Good thread as usual from you, Clive!
I think I have recalled this before on the forum, so please excuse repetition.
When I started playing competitively (Sept 12th 1974 at the George Hotel at Roade), the Northants league was in its infancy and only one or two players were capable of big breaks, so much so that local press reports called a SCORE (not break) of over 10,000 "breaking the board".
My whole team taught ourselves in the first season. It was my big brother Phil, plus Pip Cox and Les King. The 5th player was anyone else we could get. We didn't bother to register them, they just played as Ollie Hamp or Derek somebody, the only other two names which had been registered.
We were bottom all season, of course, but sneaked off the foot of the table when I won the deciding leg of the last match of the season. That in itself gave me the courage to carry on, so you can blame John Buttle for "letting" me win if you like, or I would not be here now.
In those days, I recorded EVERY break I managed over 3,000, whether in practice or a match, in a little black book.
So, when I took a coach trip to the Lakers Hotel in Redhill for the very first All-England Individuals in 1975, it was a real eye-opener. KT was there but I am not sure if he played (I think he did). Mike Hinton (Sussex) was the winner and I think he beat Roy Buckle along the way (or possibly in the final).
A few weeks later Northants B (which for some unknown reason I was nominated for) played Wycombe A in the Inter-Area Cup. After they beat us 10-0, Roy (brother of Phil Buckle) showed us how to put side on the break and how to vary the position in the D to play the split shot etc.
A year or so later, I played in another Inter-Area game at the Duke of York (Wellingborough) against Newbury A when the first four legs saw a top score of 4,000 (which was mine against Charlie Hastie), but then Nigel Rosier steps up with a 9,000 break and about a 13,000 score to make the table look easy.
I was amazed how he could get the split from wherever he played the red on the one-up. I imagined a big egg shape on the table. He placed the red anywhere in that egg and STILL managed that split. He was a quiet man and never talked very much but his actions were loud and clear.
When I was drawn to play Nigel Rosier in my first All-England Indiv, I was (unbelievably I know) "speechless" and had to turn off his perceived aura of invincibility to beat him.
So, raise your glasses to Roy Buckle and Nigel Rosier!
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Post by Herr von Puebik on Sept 15, 2006 7:56:20 GMT
I was introduced to the game 2 years ago by my good mate Jel who taught me the usual break shots etc and how to safely get out of awkward shots (not that I always do). Some of what he showed me must have sunk in as I got to the final of our Jim Wilson competition in the first year. The most important things he taught me were don't worry who you play against as even the best players have off days, never give up even if you are well behind, and have a few beers before you start as he didn't teach me to play sober.
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Post by milhouse on Sept 15, 2006 8:21:36 GMT
I was introduced just about 2 years ago by Ray Sturgess. He played for me on a Sunday in the pool team. He wanted a Bar Billiard table back in the Tandem but they would only get one if he could guarantee a team. So he asked me and Keith Hollis to play. That was in the Eynsham league and we finished runners-up in section 2. He always said it was a good league to start playing in as you always play 2 games, so you will get a shot in at least one of them!! He has really been the only person who has taught me how to play, although i have picked up a few tips along the way from some top players in the league including Jon Bamsey and Terry Cook. Also Pete Farrelly who has been saying some nice things about me and my future in this game, that is a confidence booster hearing someone of his stature saying things like he has, so thanks :)
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Mark James
Distinguished Member
Mark James
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Post by Mark James on Sept 15, 2006 9:55:19 GMT
I first played in the summer of 1979, and was taught by Tony Lewis, who was starting a team to play in the Worthing League at the Balltree Inn, Sompting. He knew barely more than I, the table was tough, and it was a struggle to make a break of 1000 (yes, one thousand).
A couple of months later, we both went to spectate at the National team finals, somewhere in Horsham. Here we saw top quality bar billiards for the first time. I was particularly impressed by Ian Lelliott who was playing for the Sussex representatives (North Star possibly?) on the day. He took time out to pass on a couple of hints to two wide-eyed greenhorns who had never seen anybody stay on a BB table for more than a few shots consecutively.
Guest of honour at that event was a very inebriated Reggie Bosanquet (former ITN newsreader, for those too young to recall him). He arrived with a girl on each arm, without whom he would not have been able to stand up. I did witness him playing a game of bar billiards (he moved the white pegs to be in front of the 50 holes), and he was clearly a genuine devotee of the game.
Incidentally, both Tony Lewis & Ian Lelliott remain team-mates of mine to this day.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2006 11:01:52 GMT
I started to learn with my dad in The Downsman, Hove a couple of years before I joined the Navy. This would have been about 1975.
We moved around Christmas '77 to some new flats opposite The Golden Cross. It was there that I met people like Derek Vine (Feedthegoats Uncle), Bob "The Angel" Millward, Keith "The Ox" Austin, Mike Blomfield, Dave Barlow, Vince Watts and many others. This was at a time when The Cross was a proper pub. It had a pool and a Bar Billiards table in the public bar (which only opened on certain days of the week). The saloon bar was where the main table was. Most of the time you had to queue for quite a while to get a game. I played for a couple of seasons there (interrupted by 2 trips to the Falklands) before we moved. It was good times then and I missed the evenings out for the 20 odd years I was away for the game.
Sorry if I have bored everyone but the question was asked.
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Post by Colemanator on Sept 15, 2006 11:30:02 GMT
Myself and Steve Oram were persuaded to make the numbers up in 1984s summer league for the Stirrup Cup by the then landlord John Merrick. We were shown the shots, break etc etc, we finished bottom. It was really only spending every night playing at the Stirrup Cup in Barton Seagrave where we lived that we improved quickly, winning the 2nd div the following winter, Steve was/is a steadier player than myself. But really we taught ourselves.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2006 12:05:36 GMT
Some great responses, there, fella's and I would just like to add to Mark's by confirming the Reggie Bosanquet story : the venue was the Sun Alliance Club, now known as the Holbrook Club.
Ian Lelliott is an absolute phenomenon of bar billiards, I have an old newspaper clipping of the Sussex representative team in the early 70's and Ian is in there alongside old legends like Reg Beard, Jim Baker and Tim Peacock. Knowing roughly how old he is, he must have been picked at a very young age. And there he was recently, getting to the final of an Open.
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Post by FeedTheGoat on Sept 15, 2006 13:08:56 GMT
My dad taught me just about everything I know. I am so thankful that he taught me the split straight away, rather than 50 holes - it has helped me a great deal.
I still have a lot to cath up on him because even in the one season he was motivated enough to go to Jersey (2004/05), he managed to get to the 1/4 finals, then come runner-up in the Grand Prix, and play for England!
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Post by fazza on Sept 15, 2006 13:17:39 GMT
...although i have picked up a few tips along the way from some top players in the league including Jon Bamsey and Terry Cook. Also Pete Farrelly who has been saying some nice things about me and my future in this game, that is a confidence booster hearing someone of his stature saying things like he has, so thanks :) Appreciated Mark, but Jon Bamsey is about as tall as me and Terry isn't exactly short either ;D sorry (couldn't resist) Ian Lelliott is an absolute phenomenon of bar billiardsis quoted from above post, and I totally agree with what you say. Just hope you do not misunderstand what I have said about his achievement in this BBQ. I really think he is a top player of a similar era to myself, or perhaps even a little earlier.
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Post by fazza on Sept 15, 2006 13:23:08 GMT
I would just like to add to Mark's by confirming the Reggie Bosanquet story : the venue was the Sun Alliance Club, now known as the Holbrook Club. Incidentally, by way of "glossing" this up a bit, Reggie would have been playing his own style of game with one Roy Hare from Kettering because he did just about all afternoon. Roy's son Roo is on the forum regularly now and could tell us all what happened in detail because Roy could talk about it for hours.
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Post by davejones on Sept 15, 2006 16:15:32 GMT
Following earlier answers regarding Ian Lelliott
He played for the mighty Gardeners team who are the most successful team in Worthing by winning 6 titles and 1 runners up in eight years.
Back on subject I watched Mike Hinton a lot in the days when I started and remember him winning the first All England singles title in 1975. Scoring an average of over 10000 on the day.
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Roo "Convoy!!"
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Post by Roo "Convoy!!" on Sept 16, 2006 10:17:18 GMT
:) Pete. I will have a chat with my Dad Tonight and find out more about this Reggie Story. If it's too long, I'll write a book and sell it through the forum! ???
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Post by Colemanator on Sept 16, 2006 10:31:36 GMT
Roo, you mean you've never heard this story? :D
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petem
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Post by petem on Sept 16, 2006 17:00:30 GMT
Mostly I taught myself to play,but I did have the help of Colin Peskett who in 1978 ish-1981 was the Captain of The Mucky Duck A team in the Billingshurst League and also the captain of the all conquering Bell team from the Horsham league I also had the privilege of playing against and watching the great John Thayre for about a year before I started playing seriously in 1978
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Post by fazza on Sept 17, 2006 6:48:38 GMT
And what a captain Colin Peskett was!!!! He was even appointed non-playing captain of England for a few years, although I never saw him play any sort of game!!
Is he still about?
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petem
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Post by petem on Sept 17, 2006 9:27:06 GMT
Hi Pete I don't know if Colin is still around I left the Billingshurst area in 1981 and I believe he switched to playing at the Alfold Social Club along with the Thayres Colin was a good player and he was a wonderful captain and always got the best out of any team he was associated with He was probably the only one of the Mucky Duck team that regularly frequented the pub because he lived quite close in Rudgwick
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Roo "Convoy!!"
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Post by Roo "Convoy!!" on Sept 17, 2006 17:47:51 GMT
;D Having spoken to my dad (Roy Hare), the story with Reggie Bosanquet is as follows:
Apparently, Reggie was President of the National Bar Billiards League in the 70's (or similar title) and was in attendance with his whole entourage at one of the All England Championships. The Stirrup Cup were representing Northamptonshire with the likes of Barry Fairy, Norman Reynolds, Jimmy Wilson, Martin Baish and Jackie Dent.
Roy Hare and Norman Reynolds were practising in one of the back rooms when Reggie Bosanquet popped his head around the door and asked if he could have a quick game (probably not his best move). After hours of playing billiards and drinking copious amounts of ale etc., Reggie's entourage came to rescue him, only to be told to eff off by the President who had drank far too much with his new drinking buddies, the 'hardened' Northamptonshire Drinkers Society. He was not willing to rejoin the All England Competition and was probably not fit to do so anyway.
It's good to see that Northamptonshire still flies the 'AA' flag when it comes to drinking far too much during important National Events and that they can still bring innocent people down with them....cheers! :o
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2006 8:21:27 GMT
Remaining on topic for once: ;)
My stepfather taught me the rusiments of the game. This was in the early 90's. When, pretty much, I was as keen as 'the split'. I used to also try to emulate a certain Mr Tunstall - not a bad ambition - but wildly optimistic. I should have set a more realistic goal!!! :)
I went to as many opens as I could and to Jersey and got to see all of the best players play. That, in itself, was a massive inspiration.
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Post by fazza on Sept 18, 2006 13:20:56 GMT
I am deeply hurt that you did not mention me!!!!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2006 13:31:31 GMT
He might have seen you over in Jersey and was including you in that. Or maybe you took "best players over in Jersey" to mean just Harry Barbet and Nick Barnett ? ;)
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2006 13:41:10 GMT
I particularly valued the help and support of Pete Farrelly. What a true asset to the game. In my early days it was so useful. Nowadays, however, even he can't get me into a team!!!
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Post by fazza on Sept 18, 2006 13:48:28 GMT
You are so fickle, Elsie!! Lord knows I've tried my best!!! You could always drive down to Northampton and come down to Oxford with me!!!!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2006 13:52:56 GMT
It is looking like that is my only offer! Not a bad one at that! Thank you, I will keep you posted.
(And yes, I know you have tried and I appreciate it.)
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lloydy
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Post by lloydy on Sept 18, 2006 18:17:11 GMT
My first season was around 1991, playing for the Dog and Bacon in Horsham Div 3. I entered the Singles and was drawn at the Windmill Crawley against (the legend that is) Tony Franks.
I had no clue who he was at the time so when I won the toss I put him in. 17K later I thought 'sh#t this guys good!'
He won the next with an equally impressive break.
I came away thinking thats how Bar Billiards should be played. So, I spent the next few years practicing the Split.
Tony was without doubt my biggest influence.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2006 21:32:41 GMT
'Twas you and Sleezy, Gareth, who gave me a good tip one night at the Blue Ship on how to achieve a good position from the one-up. I think it was immediately after you'd put 40k past me in two frames of Singles ! Your tip has certainly helped my game since.
I've never heard anything other than respect about Franksey : an enduring memory was in a very early BIOC at Jersey. Englanders were still coming to terms with the off-the-spot game and were very much second best. Tony was the first one to really crack it, got to the Semi-Final, lost, but won a play-off for third place. In this match he played the clock out doing three down, one up in front of the hole and both down (double-barrel) for 14k, and received a standing ovation which must have lasted all of five minutes !
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Ice Man
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Post by Ice Man on Sept 19, 2006 1:36:59 GMT
My dad taught me most of what i know about the game when i was about 9 years old (feels like such along time ago)
But also by watching some of the great players in the game like Terry Race, Jim Millward, Kevin Tunstall etc, i've learnt alot from them as well.
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