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Post by David Ingram on Aug 30, 2012 12:37:10 GMT
Hi All,
Following the recent decision to make the AEBBA Section of the Forum "Members Only", I am intrigued to know how non-members are now supposed to find out the dates of competitions in the future and what time they are supposed to arrive at competitions to play in them??
I am sure that there are many people here that are not members who rely on the Forum as a source of information for the Tournaments and, with this facility being withdrawn, I am concerned that many players will not be able to find out about these if the information is no longer available. ::)
Does this mean that Tournament Organisers will have to notify all likely entrants individually as to the date of the next competition and then contact each player to confirm the time that they need to arrive to play their games.... or will non-members be "punished" and have to turn up at 10am for each competition, even if they then find out that they do not have a match for 3 or 4 hours?? :-/
This Forum is the best source of information about our game and I believe that it should provide this type of information to everybody (whether members or not) as surely the whole point is to encourage more people to play the game.... not withhold that information which could even lead to less people playing in the competitions in the future?
I would be interested to hear the views of others about this subject.... and a solution for the people that view the Forum to find out the information at present but are unable / unwilling to become members. ;D
Many thanks.
Dave
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Post by milhouse on Aug 30, 2012 12:50:15 GMT
I agree totally with you there Dave. Although the forum is a good way of communication, for people who are not constant users (or users at all), how are they to know?
The tournament organisers always ask for an email address for each entry, so i have always said that the tournament organisers should get in contact to let people know their start times.
We will have a similar situation soon with all the AE tournaments, where there are no entry forms.....
I didn't comment on the original discussion of the forum becoming members only, but for the record i do disagree with it and this is an example why.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2012 14:22:43 GMT
I would think that the situation would be quite easily resolved by displaying the Draw for any Opens (with starting times) on the AEBBA website which is visible to all.
AFAIAA the Forum organisers have every intention to do this, so I would bear with them. :-/
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2012 16:11:47 GMT
Tommo How do we (tournament organizer's) put the start times on the AEBBA web site ? Well, imagine it as a sandwich, Pete.... We get the bread and butter on AEBBA website in the form of the Downloadable entry form, and the full transcript of results round by round with players' scores after the event has taken place. So why not the meat ? It shouldn't be too difficult for a new web page to be created showing the Draw with the table times once known. This would be provided by Nigel for Sav to upload on to the AEBBA website in the normal fashion. Simples ! :D |
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Post by barbelman on Aug 30, 2012 16:29:16 GMT
The AEBBA website is not really designed to be a 'dynamic' site. It is an excellent record of data from previous tournaments and some of our history. The problem is if people want to repeat what is on the Forum then it needs someone with the time and impetus to do it. Chris already does far too much for Bar Billiards and it would fall to him - he will not always have the time to react as quickly as tournament organisers will need.
To my mind, it takes just as long, if not longer, to find the stuff you need on a website than it does on a forum. The input on the forum can be made by the organisers and any questions can be answered in a timely fashion by them. This is not possible on a website and is at best clunky. The Bar Billiards forum has always been open to all league bar billiard players without question and has a simple and fast registration process. You can set your computer to remember your user name and all you have to do is input your password and you're there....
Simples ;D ;D
cheers
Tony
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Post by David Ingram on Aug 30, 2012 16:50:02 GMT
The AEBBA website is not really designed to be a 'dynamic' site. It is an excellent record of data from previous tournaments and some of our history. The problem is if people want to repeat what is on the Forum then it needs someone with the time and impetus to do it. Chris already does far too much for Bar Billiards and it would fall to him - he will not always have the time to react as quickly as tournament organisers will need. To my mind, it takes just as long, if not longer, to find the stuff you need on a website than it does on a forum. The input on the forum can be made by the organisers and any questions can be answered in a timely fashion by them. This is not possible on a website and is at best clunky. The Bar Billiards forum has always been open to all league bar billiard players without question and has a simple and fast registration process. You can set your computer to remember your user name and all you have to do is input your password and you're there.... Simples ;D ;D cheers Tony Yes, simples if you are a Member of the Forum.....!! :-/ But what about the (vast majority of) people who play in the Tournaments.... or maybe one day would like to play.... who are not members?? The ones who perhaps are unable (or unwilling) to join the Forum for whatever reason.... ::) Surely, the idea of the Forum is to promote the game and get people playing.... it should not be to try to force people that want to play to become a member of the Forum or face being excluded from information. >:( I would ask the Staff (publicly now) to reconsider their decision to make the AEBBA section available only to Members. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2012 16:56:07 GMT
I agree that Sav has his work cut out getting half of the tournament tables refurbished in time for a tournament due to take place in 10 days time.
He deserves our forbearance in view of this.
I would however question the timing of the removal of the tournament draw for Berks from public view, without having a contingency arrangement put in place. And displaying it on the AEBBA site seems a logical - and painless - step to me.
Now that I have left the moderating team, I can see things more from the point of view of the 'ordinary punter' and can sense the frustration of certain individuals.
Whilst I support the change to 'Members Only' I also think we need to show some consideration to people - members or otherwise - who are prepared to keep supporting the Open events, thus keeping the game alive.
tommo
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Post by Chris on Aug 30, 2012 22:31:42 GMT
I appreciate all views.....
The forum staff wanting to know how the website is used by creating a members only logon. Those that don't want to be members and only want to view and get info relevant to them such as relevant Dates and Competition Times.
Sav does a wow job !!! never in question and he is not part of this debate as it is about two principles not any individuals of the forum staff.
Should we have to be members to get important information that is relevant to us re AEBBA Tournaments, County Info and League Info or not !!
At the moment I see it as no choice. You either join or you don't.
The lacking part here was consultation with the membership of the forum. The Forum Moderators and Directors do a grand job, but there was no consultation with the forum membership prior to any decisions, no discussions regarding the points raised or decisions made. Yes there was an area for discussion but it was declared this was going to be a members only site. It was not a question of Should we ???
A forum needs leadership, this site has very good leadership, perhaps consultation would have provided a more informed decision??
I guess that like all forms of memberships at the moment the majority will not comment and will go with the flow as it is easier. Also like me are just so grateful for the time that they put in and it is truly appreciated.
I do though personally think that this must not be the only forum for publishing re County and AEBBA tournament draws and times as it becomes exclusive from 01/19/12. There will need to be an Open Access site for this as well for non members.
How will that be ensured??
I would suggest a delay on a members only, allowing for some discussion to ensure that the route is planned for Open and Aebba Organisers and county secretaries to receive important information such as competition draws and that this is established first.
My thoughts
Chris
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Post by milhouse on Aug 30, 2012 23:57:39 GMT
The big question that i cannot seem to understand is what difference does it make to change the forum to members only? I read that is was to see who uses the site, but why is that important as long as people are using it?
I for one cannot sign in if i am at work, so when (if) the forum becomes members only, i will be using it less and i presume that other people who access it from work will be the same, so does this not have an adverse affect?
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Post by Sir Chancelot on Aug 31, 2012 6:47:09 GMT
Spot on and very well written Chris.
I also believe the decision to go "members only" although hinted at as being thought about/discussed for some time by the Modfathers, may possibly have been influenced by, and a decision hurried, due to a personal dispute between some of the Modfathers and a high profile and well known player and former member of this forum.
I would echo 100% what Chris has said that the Mods. do a wonderful job, unpaid and in their own precious time, and at considerable cost, all for the good of our beloved game.
Please do not think that any of these comments are a criticism of how the Forum is run.
There must be rules and discipline.
However I agree that a momentous decision/proposal to become members only should, at the very least, be open to debate and a poll, say at the World Championship and Online, and a months notice that this decision has been made without any reference to members or chance to vote or participate in a debate on the issue by the users and members of this Forum seems a little odd in the times of free speech.
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Post by David Ingram on Aug 31, 2012 7:46:00 GMT
Spot on and very well written Chris. I also believe the decision to go "members only" although hinted at as being thought about/discussed for some time by the Modfathers, may possibly have been influenced by, and a decision hurried, due to a personal dispute between some of the Modfathers and a high profile and well known player and former member of this forum. I agree entirely that Chris made some superb points.... 8-) But I don't think that the decision to change to members only was anything to do with any "personal dispute".... from what I remember, the Forum Staff have been thinking of this change for some time as I know they want to get a clearer picture about who is using the Forum and encourage more members to sign in when they are online. There is nothing wrong with that.... as long as non-members can still access important information about the competitions to enable them to take part if they wish to. This Forum is a vital part of the future of our game but membership should not be compulsory and information should be available to all. ;D |
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colinm
Full Forum Member
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Post by colinm on Aug 31, 2012 12:21:58 GMT
I have as yet not commented on the proposal to move to a members only forum as I didn't want any comments to be taken as a criticism of the way the site is run. The site is very well run and maintained and is first and foremost an invaluable source of information about what is going on for all those interested in our game.
Personally I would like the site to remain open to all with only members able to make posts. My fear is the more access to the site is restricted the more insular the game becomes and the more it will decline.
As I do not have the time to dedicate to assist in the running of the forum I accept the decisions of those that do, whilst not necessarily agreeing with all of them.
I am sure that the moderators (who do a fantsactic job) have very good reasons for the change to members only but I fear these have not been communicated in a manner to all us mere mortals that makes us realise why the need for change exists.
I remember when I applied for membership that I felt I was intruding on the site and I felt I was treated with some suspicion rather than being welcomed with open arms as a new member. I understand the fear all those involved in websites have with potential problems and who has access etc.
I know several people who don't want to comment on things but like to be able to see what is going on and to access the basics they need, as long as this access to the information about competitions in their own leagues and nationally is not compromised they can continue to do so, this at least will help these non members see what is going on.
Regards
Colin (Wallingford Secretary)
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Post by barbelman on Aug 31, 2012 15:04:08 GMT
Thank you Colin - a very constructive post and thanks to everyone else who has commented thusfar - can we have more opinions please?
Tony
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Post by Chris_Sav on Sept 1, 2012 9:03:01 GMT
From the centre!!
I am extremely disappointed to see this thread for two reasons.
1) An announcement was made and a thread for comment on the members only move was started on 26th July and since then only Chrissie Newson and Stormin have bothered to comment, hardly an indication for staff to think they had made the wrong decision, yet suddenly we have mayhem.
2) David Ingram, who chooses not to be a member of this forum, emailed the entire staff asking for this to be reconsidered two days ago. That process was put into place by me out of respect to David and David was informed, yet within hours I find this thread, which I view as deliberately embarassing to the staff that run this forum.
I am personally pleased to say that the staff are reconsidering the decision. I cannot say I like some of the comments in this thread such as 'Modfathers' and comments that we are being vindictive to David Ingram that I view to be derogatory to the efforts that a fine team make to run this information centre. My thanks to David Ingram for making it clear that members only has been in discussion for many months.
The members only decision was made by an almost unanimous staff vote, from the frustration that staff know who less than ten percent of our viewers are and the staff have little idea of how successfully we are reaching our target audience. Staff have asked viewers to go through a simple registration process, nothing more. Very many Proboards forums are members only.
Graham and I (latterly with Clive) have selected the current staff team as the best people to see the bigger picture and to fairly and conscientiously make the decisions to run this forum as successfully as we can. Rarely does anyone thank them for putting their heads above the parapet and making awkward decisions that sometimes affects people they are meeting. They have made the decision to go members only and, no chance to discuss the move?, they have had virtually no feedback to the contrary for five weeks until 24 hours before the execution date.
Graham, Clive and I, as owners of this forum, met to discuss the future of this forum last month and the lunch did not turn into a question of planning as was intended, it became a question of which of us would be prepared to continue as owners as NONE of us wished to. The flack we take when there are problems on here make you dread logging on as an owner and this is now another of them.
Help us to help you and be patient! most of all respect decisions made by the brilliant bunch of staff who run this forum and provide constructive feedback when requested to help them. They make the decisons, that's what they have been chosen for, it is up to you to help them.
Sav
Longest serving Modfather and co-bearer of the poison chalice.
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Post by Sparky on Sept 2, 2012 18:28:49 GMT
I would like to make it clear that I am in full agreement with the previous post by Sav, made in my absence.
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Pete S
Distinguished Member
Posts: 714
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Post by Pete S on Sept 3, 2012 8:35:53 GMT
Opens have been going since the early nineties. This forum only a few years. Players were always able to find out start times and I am sure they will be able to with the forum members only. If we have a forum for Bar Billiards it is not unreasonable to have it members only. The other forums I belong to are.
If a player wants to play in an open they will find out their start time. If they don't find it out it would be a feeble excuse to say that they are not a member of the forum.
Give me one good reason for not joining.
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Post by Colemanator on Sept 3, 2012 15:49:14 GMT
Opens have been going since the early nineties. This forum only a few years. Players were always able to find out start times and I am sure they will be able to with the forum members only. If we have a forum for Bar Billiards it is not unreasonable to have it members only. The other forums I belong to are. If a player wants to play in an open they will find out their start time. If they don't find it out it would be a feeble excuse to say that they are not a member of the forum. Give me one good reason for not joining. Spot on Pete.Thanks for you view. |
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Post by Chris on Sept 6, 2012 23:22:56 GMT
To all that work so hard to rum this forum my thanks and respect.
I have started with a line that I believe in .... in reality ...
As a leader of anything ( and I am) you will always get criticism despite your great and fantastic efforts, time and committment.
You asked for views and you received them.
Life at the top is always open for public comments good or bad.
Just remember it does not mean that the majority do not appreciate your exceptional hard work.
I have decided not to post from now on as I never meant any offence. Except tipsters as I really enjoy that so will post there.
Chris
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Post by bigtj on Sept 7, 2012 6:18:45 GMT
Chris please do not take the view of not posting your views are well respected, and always objective. We need the input from those who care, and I cannot believe anyone took offence to you airing your views as this is the idea of the forum.
I am sure many others agree with me please continue to voice your balanced opinion.
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Post by Sparky on Sept 7, 2012 7:17:45 GMT
Chris please do not take the view of not posting your views are well respected, and always objective. We need the input from those who care, and I cannot believe anyone took offence to you airing your views as this is the idea of the forum. I am sure many others agree with me please continue to voice your balanced opinion. Chris I also agree with TJ's post and ask you to reconsider, as we do need balanced and well meaning comments or opinions. It not always possible to transmit ones feelings properly by the written word and sometimes others will misread or misunderstand what is meant. Graham x |
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Post by Q on Sept 7, 2012 11:43:30 GMT
Chris
I would love to know where you got the idea that you had upset someone!!! and if you have I'd like to know WHO??
Your views are probably the most balanced that we get on here, you have the ability to see both sides of any problem and I would ask you to reconsider your position, we need people like you.
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Post by milko on Sept 7, 2012 15:23:25 GMT
Chris, I agree with the rest of the staff, please keep posting your opinions on here as they make a lot of sense. (well most of the time ! ;))
I know, I'm ***d again :-*
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Post by Chris on Sept 8, 2012 20:46:59 GMT
Oh guys
Sorry Q not going to say where, have sent you a PM.
I just really feel for those that work so hard, do a damn good job, never get any credit for it, and it must take hours...all we do is pass comment when something is wrong the majority of the time, including me and I should know better.
Probably a female thing !!! and no I don't mean that!!!!
I admire the work by the Directors and staff. I just look at the work Clive did / does
Sometimes posts get personnel and that is wrong, deal with it 1:1.
Yes Keith you are still ***d :-*
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