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Post by Chris_Sav on Oct 22, 2012 17:31:03 GMT
I really felt I had to comment on this after my experiences of late. For the benefit of the old hands as well as new members who may be looking to buy a table. Professionally Restored?? what does it mean? In almost every case I have dealt with, or given advice on, over the last few years 'Professionally Restored' means: - Done to a budget using as cheap materials as possible eg coarse cloth.
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- Not pulling the cloth tight
- Leaving cloth rucks around holes
- Leaving cups too proud in the holes so that balls bounce off them.
- Leaving cups too deep in the holes so that the cloth rim cuts when hit by balls
- And many other examples
- Done as quickly as possible and with as few repairs as can be got away with eg
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- nailing on perished rubber cushions instead of replacing.
- Not filling cavities on slates.
- Not filling damage to wood surrounds.
- Not making sure hinges and corners are tight.
- Not making sure the slate is OK.
- Damage to leg threads.
- And many other examples
- Most importantly there are no professional restorers that play competition bar billiards to my knowledge. so they do not know what we are looking for in a table.
I specifically don't include Tarratts in this as I have no dealings with their tables, or Ivor Champion. However the 'Professionally Restored' tables I have seen have left an awful lot to desire. Buyers beware and seek advice from this forum on your potential purchase. Sav
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2012 11:56:15 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2012 13:21:49 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2012 21:48:30 GMT
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Post by Chris_Sav on Nov 4, 2012 23:00:55 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2012 23:33:32 GMT
LOL ;D Ship has been spoiled for a ha'ppenorth of tar.....good work on the wood, yes, but why no crowning glory in the form of a D ? :o And judging by the mark left by the previous one, it was enormous!
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Post by barbelman on Nov 5, 2012 8:48:35 GMT
Lovely woodwork but they seem to have forgotten the most important bit...
At least it's not a league table going out of a pub somewhere in Oxon! :D
Tony
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Post by Chris_Sav on Nov 5, 2012 9:01:04 GMT
Rose tinted glasses methinks Clive ;D It's pony & trap and I'm not sure what mongrel it is.
The top appears normal Sams as it has the corner cover pieces (lookalikes do not). The bottom of the table is chroist knows what! The legs are not Sams (no chamfer) but the bulbous feet are.
Sorry but the job on the wood is rubbish, they could not even be bothered to take off the score markers as you can clearly see where they have rubbed around them, so corners have been cut.
Wrong leatherette, so probably soft spongy stuff.
The dividers in the ball trap are thin and rough and do not match the outer walls and the bottom is hanging out of it. I am certain it is not original.
No cue hooks, double decker 'D' marked out so freshly recovered?
Can't tell about the all important cups and surface as the pictures are rubbish, probably a reason for that :o
Professionally refurbished my @arse, any professional refurbisher would have taken the markers off when rubbing it down. >:( >:(
Sav
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2012 9:08:51 GMT
Rose tinted glasses methinks Clive ;D It's pony & trap and I'm not sure what mongrel it is. Sav Not me, Sav, I wasn't a fan and declined to comment. First impression was that a professional restore was claimed, with nothing more really than the wood being rubbed down and no attention whatsoever given to the baize.
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Post by Chris_Sav on Nov 5, 2012 9:23:18 GMT
good work on the wood, yes, Sorry thought you were a fan of this one :-/ Tony thought the wood was nice as well :P Sav ducks
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2012 9:36:36 GMT
The top appears normal Sams as it has the corner cover pieces (lookalikes do not). The bottom of the table is chroist knows what! The legs are not Sams (no chamfer) but the bulbous feet are.Sav That is what interested me and I didn't know what to make of it. It points to Riley legs on an otherwise SAMs table. And the ball tray does hang abnormally low. What one might call a Frankenstein's monster ! ;D
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Post by barbelman on Nov 5, 2012 11:22:36 GMT
good work on the wood, yes, Sorry thought you were a fan of this one :-/ Tony thought the wood was nice as well :P Sav ducks 'Ere don't bring me into it! - it IS a lovely colour :P but as you say - 'professional' with those shortcuts! How long does it take to remove ten score markers for goodness sake. Not as long as fiddling about sanding round them, that's for sure. The playing surface appears crap. The front legs look chamfered a la Sams to me though - but what do I know? ;D Tony
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2012 21:16:22 GMT
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Post by Q on Nov 10, 2012 0:17:52 GMT
and 3 little letters Clive..... MDF
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2012 11:01:58 GMT
and 3 little letters Clive..... MDF Quite so, appropriate for home use only, could never be used for League play. :(
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2012 18:04:49 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2013 12:04:16 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2013 11:48:14 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2013 12:25:07 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2013 18:48:11 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2013 12:33:54 GMT
'Dogsbody' from Wakefield offering a refurbished early Supreme: www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bar-Billiards-Table-/321066833529He seems to be one of the new dealers springing up, some more of his merchandise can be seen on page 3 of this thread. Went for £720 after 17 bids. (NB Listing details now removed from eBay)
He has another one on offer (unlikely to be the same one), and doesn't even show a picture of it this time ! Pictures now upwww.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bar-Billiards-Table-/321165693882So does this one even exist ? Buying up unwanted Supremes on eBay for £500 and flogging them on for £750 with minimal overheads: could be trying to exploit a niche in the market. Bidding has ended on this item. 10 bids, the highest only £255: reserve not met, so no sale. Relisted 28//7/13: www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Supreme-Bar-Billiards-Table-/321173789001Bidding has ended on this item. 12 bids, the highest only £360: reserve not met, so no sale. Relisted 23/8/13: www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Refurbished-Supreme-Slate-Bed-Bar-Billiards-Table-6x3-New-Recover-/321191352149?pt=UK_SportingGoods_SnookerPool_RL&hash=item4ac87f1755 Listing ended, "sold for £650".The latest offering is very similar: www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Refurbished-Slate-Bed-Bar-Billiards-Table-6x3-New-Recover-Can-Deliver-/321276783189?pt=UK_SportingGoods_SnookerPool_RL&hash=item4acd96aa55 Listing ended, 4 offers made, all declined.Re-listed 27/12/13: www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Refurbished-Bar-Billiards-Table-Slate-Bed-6x3-New-Recover-Can-Deliver-/321284479669? This listing has ended.Re-listed 09/01/14: www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Slate-Bed-Bar-Billiards-Table-/321294796115?Listing ended, best offer accepted (below £595)
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2014 13:31:12 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2014 13:44:45 GMT
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Post by Chris_Sav on Apr 18, 2014 15:33:38 GMT
Not convinced it's a genuine Sams. Backboard and ball tray look like a look-a-like.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2014 18:12:06 GMT
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Post by Chris_Sav on Apr 18, 2014 19:46:23 GMT
Yeah the backboard is probably a recent (and ill-advised !) purchase for the refurbishment due to it being missing. Try and source 'backboard for SAMS bar billiard table' and that's probably the nearest to a SAMS you'd be able to find. Unless you know of someone like Ivor Champion, of course ! Picture is not conclusive but I have had one of what I think this may be through my hands.
The metal backboard, apparent lack of sculpting in the ball tray, little chamfering on the legs make me think it MAY be by Hennings of Essex who produced a batch of Sams look-a-likes that I have commented on before (will do a search). They are actually better constructed than the Sams if I am correct. my worry is the corner pieces which I seem to remember were not on the one I had.
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2014 21:21:59 GMT
Here's one I know something about the history of (location W.Chiltington, Sussex): www.ebay.co.uk/itm/beautiful-old-oak-slate-bed-bar-billiards-league-table-/131192137668Vendor is a long-term employee of Tarratts and has lovingly restored this table which he bought privately. The table has attributes of an early SAMS but is not one they mass produced, the leg adjusters are metal and not the usual wooden 'bowl' type. It also has the four cue slots often found in the earliest tables. There are ornate carvings on the metal corner brackets, and judging from the maker's plate (= Wakeling's Sports House, Clapham Park Road, SW4) this could be a bespoke manufacture. In view of its history and rarity, the fact it is a "good width" - and the restoration having been performed by someone in the trade - this table could command upwards of a grand......... Went to a single bid of £600. In retrospect not a bad price as we reckon it was a 'narrow dimension' table.
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Post by Chris_Sav on May 16, 2014 21:36:25 GMT
I'd have a small shilling it was French origins, narrow Sams config
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2014 21:39:11 GMT
the fact it is a "good width" Having said that, is it though ? As the channel markings and the backboard/scoreboard both have the outside holes as 'tens' and the middle one as a thirty - usually a mark of a narrow table only suitable for the 4-Pin variation of our game. Quote: Hmmmm I wonder if these are external rather than internal dimensions ? I understand the vendor intends to join this Forum, so maybe we'll be able to ask him the question !
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2014 21:47:36 GMT
On the "Narrow tables" thread, the table from Bridgwater has just sold for £785 after attracting 21 bids!
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