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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2015 10:57:51 GMT
More difficult, yes, but not impossible for anyone bold enough to attempt it by applying enough right-hand side. Triplex against me was tickling the left hand peg on the way in each time. Had to be perfect.
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Post by Coleman Jnr on Mar 23, 2015 15:14:06 GMT
I played one local player in the semi final of the plate who was doing the 50/50 break but reverse, most times only securing one ball but none the less scoring highly and continuing his break. It was difficult, with most players either adapting the "3 pin break" or going for an alternative shot down the bottom.
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Post by petersoanes on Mar 23, 2015 20:18:23 GMT
had a great time at E A open ,enjoyed the games ,venue etc . Will be back for certain next year
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Post by Chris on Mar 23, 2015 21:28:45 GMT
I got the break on an odd occasion, not consistent at all and not on every table but if I played accurately got the red down every time !!! Shame I didn't And Jon Bamsey wow !!! I saw him nail the break on table 6. Let's face it we entered a Four Pin not a Three Pin and for us non split players ( me included ) it was a pleasure not to feel that the big break players will beat us before we even start I would hope that the great 3 pin split players would appreciate the leveller here, as it is in the Alternative Rules, supports those that constantly support them in other Opens. I firmly believe most do and will continue to enter. Only two games in the whole calendar year of Opens and other comps. I played Luke Cole-watts in the semi of the plate - what an artist of the Four Pin. I was beaten but felt good at the end, I did not stand there having 20k put against me for the duration of the table, ( yes I do greatly admire those that can do it and will always try to beat them ) but it was great for once to know there was always a chance of winning. That is the difference We thoroughly enjoyed our weekend and our stay at the Mill which was a fabulous hotel and deal. I would like to thank the organisers and those really great 3 pin players who entered as part of the 'Spirit of the Game' xxx
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2015 22:56:02 GMT
I do hope that some more positive and appreciative comments filter through, as it made for a marvellous day: the clever revision of the group stages so as everyone got to play a minimum of 5 legs on the day meant that we hardly noticed the 25% reduction in entries from last year.
Just to reiterate my thanks to Dave Lillee, Chris Cass, Jeremy Fry and anyone else involved in the planning. Chris Saville for delivering/collecting the tables and anyone press-ganged in to help. And not forgetting the ladies on the Admin Desk with Luke C-W ably juggling the PC work with having to play. Much goes into running an event like this.
Excellent idea to display the progress of the competition on a big screen as last year, and hopefully the transcript with scores etc will soon be made available for us to see on here !
tommo
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Post by NigelS on Mar 24, 2015 13:45:42 GMT
First I would like to say well done to Mal on his first open win and Stephen on his plate victory.
I have had a couple of days to think about the weekend and have also been able to read what has been said on here.
I was not surprised the way the tables were setup this year, just a bit disappointed. The aim was to try and stop the 50-50 break by moving the mushrooms closer to the 50 holes and making the tables a bit downhill. Last year a few of us showed the 50-50 break was possible. It was far from easy, and took a lot of skill so it was disappointing that it was made practically impossible to get it on most of the tables. I was hoping that the Sudbury players would have seen this shot last year, practiced it, and took it to this year’s tournament and perhaps won with it. I have never agreed with the setting of tables not to be level, it is something that plagues the 3 pin game at times which I have never liked.
I enjoy the group format, would have preferred the 48 to be split into groups of 6, single legs (equal breaks), then go onto double legs in the knockout. I thought going back to single legs for the knockout was a disappointment, especially given that we did not have equal breaks. I am not taking away anything from Mal who played well when he beat me (and to win the whole tournament) but his 1,300 opening break was very decisive when I didn’t even have the balls back when he came off (after 7 minutes I might add by the grinder ;) ). I only lost by 400 so felt a bit hard done by. It was also a shame that myself and Mal played on a table that I had already played 4 legs group games on, it certainly changed the dynamic of the game. I did try to stress to a couple of the Sudbury players there that having the break is an advantage and playing the same table again is an advantage and these are things that can easily be changed in the format to make things fairer.
I am sorry if the above comments are perceived as negative, it is just that I have played in this tournament all 3 years it has been held, I have enjoyed it, and would like to see it continue, but I do think things can be done to improve the players experience which may encourage more players to attend in the future. I can empathise with Colin’s frustration, he really enjoys the 4 pin version of the game, as do I, he has done a lot to promote the game within Sussex and organised the matches between Eastbourne, Hastings and Sudbury.
I would like to thank Dave Lillee, Jeremy Fry, Chris Cass, Luke C-W and all their team for running the event. It was a great weekend and we are all made to feel so welcome and of course they are welcome to any 3 pin events they want to enter. I am stressing that I really enjoy the tournament and enjoy the challenge of 4 pin - my comments above are just feedback and I hope they are taken on board when decisions are made for the 2016 EA open.
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Post by milko on Mar 24, 2015 13:59:17 GMT
Well I'm glad that I entered, even though it was a late decision. The tables being altered slightly to make the 50/50 (hole) break even harder obviously helped me to reach the Semis and if it had been a single leg round like the last 16 & Quarters I may have even made the final as I easily beat Curt in the 1st leg of our match by 190 but he made a fine 1k brk to catch me up late on in the 2nd but I was chuffed to bits anyway. I refuse to try the 50/50 break in a 4pin tournament because I like to play a different way to our monotonous 3pin version to amalgamate my scores but saying that I did have to do a reverse variation of the 30/10 hole brk, or different shot, due to doing the same shots 3 times in succesion on quite a few occasions, so it's not much different to those players who have mastered the 50/50 (hole) shot really. Well done to all those that organised the tournament and for letting me in at late notice (will pay double entry fee next year as I forgot). I was looking forward to recieving a trophy and was going to give my prize money back, if any, but didn't recieve anything anyway!!...shame really as I would have treasured a 4pin trophy for my efforts. Congratulations to Mal on his 1st Open title and to Curt on getting to all THREE 4pin finals , also Stephen for his plate win (who must have been in a tough group ) against a tough opponent in Luke in the final. Great day and lovely venue with a gorgeous pint of John Smiths that was less than £2 a pint , so hopefully will be back next year as a 'replacement '. (Also had a lovely day on Sunday visiting Felixstowe for the first time, nice place but not sure about having to walk nearly a mile to get on the promenade to see the sea due to all the flood gates being shut! Some people were climbing over but I'm not up to that!)
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Post by NigelS on Mar 24, 2015 15:14:11 GMT
Well I'm glad that I entered, even though it was a late decision. The tables being altered slightly to stop the 50/50 (hole) break being so easy I do have an issue with the "so easy" comment Keith. If it was so easy everyone would have done it last year not just half a dozen out of 64. It takes a lot of skill. I think there was an over reaction to seeing the 50-50 played last year, it wasnt as if tables were being played out!
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Post by Chris_Sav on Mar 24, 2015 15:20:09 GMT
Overall I enjoyed the weekend and thanks to the Sudbury crew for being so friendly.
I won't go into the discussions over table set-up as I was there to play four pin bar billiards and not just one shot.
It's a learning curve for the guys running it and I am sure it will be even better next year, if Suffolk get enough support to run it which must be in question without Norwich and fewer three pin aficionados.
My main and perpetual gripe was stripping down the hall once again and thanks goes to Chris Haynes and his friend (sorry can't remember your name) for getting the tables out to the van after they had been dismantled (and to Jon Bamsey for the early part). Gill went into the hall to call for support as I was struggling and NOT ONE PERSON came forward apart from the lady on the admin desk and one other who brought out a few bags. That I am afraid once again is utterly callous by players. I'm almost 68 now and under doctors orders for no heavy lifting, but I've still been doing it. My aches and pains the last three days are the worst I have experienced. You must spare a few minutes and help the organisers and spread the effort.
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Post by milko on Mar 24, 2015 16:13:24 GMT
Well I'm glad that I entered, even though it was a late decision. The tables being altered slightly to stop the 50/50 (hole) break being so easy I do have an issue with the "so easy" comment Keith. If it was so easy everyone would have done it last year not just half a dozen out of 64. It takes a lot of skill. I think there was an over reaction to seeing the 50-50 played last year, it wasnt as if tables were being played out! Sorry Nige, I didn't mean it that way. I've changed my post to "even harder" and hope we're still mates!
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Post by NigelS on Mar 24, 2015 16:37:44 GMT
Sorry Nige, I didn't mean it that way. I've changed my post to "even harder" and hope we're still mates! Ha no worries Keith, no offence taken , well done on your semi final, I thought you might go all the way!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2015 17:20:00 GMT
It is an interesting debate, which I'll add to by saying that the 50/50 wasn't the only shot made more difficult.......
My own routine for getting two in off the break consists of knocking t'object ball down for a red in the 10 and relying on a bounce from the cue ball to just tip it in the 50, but with the mushroom so close to the edge there was no margin for error. I was therefore having to settle for second best which is to leave the cue ball in the vicinity of the 50 pocket and pick shots off from there.
By contrast a very good local player whose game I watched was concentrating on curling the cue ball into the right hand 50 and was leaving the red in the same place against the left hand cushion each time to allow an easy pot for 10-20 to keep going.
This year's competition tested the imagination and resourcefulness of players and IMHO the extra 'challenge' added to the whole 4-Pin experience.
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Post by gandalf the untidy on Mar 24, 2015 21:15:24 GMT
Plenty of things discussed so far which is good, I have deliberately stood back from commenting further but now seems a good time to say the following which is my personal view of events and wont comment further.
1. Thanks to all those who organised and ran the competition on the day, it was a job well done. 2. Thanks to SAV as always, for looking after and setting up/taking down the tables, it's sadly always a job that is poorly supported by those who have enjoyed the rest of the day. 3. Taking part in any comp. of this type is always a challenge which is why we all participate and hopefully have fun at the same time.
I was however upset that, in my view, changes were made which I consider benefitted some entrants to the detriment of others, I believe that county opens should not biased toward ANY entrant and agree with the recent comments made by Nigel.
I heard on the grapevine at Bournmouth that Sudbury were "considering" changing the peg positions and therefore emailed an officer to seek clarification as to whether there were to be any rule changes, I received a reply that no rule changes had been made. Imagine my surprise to turn up on the Saturday to find the shot that I had learnt, practiced at length, taught my team mates and opponents over the last 3 years had been designed out of the game WITHOUT NOTICE by placing the pegs on the edge of the hole and setting the tables slightly down hill, it also looked like the pegs had been shaved down to reduce the base diameter to make them less stable, but I have heard that an attempt was made to flatten them, so it might be my newly acquired paranoia taking hold. The sole purpose of this being to severely hamper the 50/50 shot and to increase the chances other break shot players favouring 30-10 shot for example. As I had arrived in the morning I also found that many others had practiced on the tables the night before, another unfair situation. Surely if notice had been given of these changes and the Sudbury leagues were playing the same rules then there can't be an issue but this is not the case.
I presume that there had been plenty of locals threatening to pull out or not enter at all if something wasn't done to give them more of a chance to go further in the comp. so I can see that the organisers were probably stuck either way. I can also see that in their situation it was better to support their local leagues and though the conditions were the same for all and the best players still won. I am unable to support actions which favour one group over another and have regretfully decided to remove myself from further involvement.
I do however wish you all success in the future, as I think 4pin is a great game and have had plenty of fun playing it over the last 4 years or so, I have previously touched on my thoughts on how things could be "tweaked" to improve this version of the game and make it even more fun but was told that you "like it the way it is and don't want to change anything" !!!.
Good luck Sudbury
Regs cs
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Post by daveuk1 on Mar 24, 2015 22:16:37 GMT
It was never a secret that we would down spoons on the Friday night and everyone was invited groups 1 - 8 are scheduled to start at 10-30hrs followed by groups 9-16 which are due to start at 13-00hrs Chris tell me the programmes were sent out Saturday so hopefully you should get them on Monday or Tuesday. Don't forget that we are again using the open to raise money for The Suffolk Family Carers charity so any donations will be gratefully recieved. See you all next Saturday or Friday night in spoons if any of you are down early Dave I can say, hand on heart that the mushrooms were NOT SHAVED or doctored in anyway, shape or form, they were the exact same mushrooms we used in last years open. I myself did receive some PM's asking about the rules and I was happy to answer that the "rules of play hadn't changed" i.e. the red ball must always be in play when available, last ball to be played off any cushion/s into any hole etc. as far as the peg positions are concerned their are no measurements, the rules say they should be positioned in front of the 200, 100 and two fifty holes, OK I admit that maybe they were a touch too close, but it was the same for EVERY player and I hope everyone will agree it did make for much more interesting games, all scores were reasonably close with no one being trashed by thousands of points to just a few, indeed many games came down to the last few balls, which surely makes the game more entertaining for everyone and at the end of the day the top ranked players still came through to the last stages The positioning of the 50 pegs didn't really bother the 4 pin players as most 4 pin shots are based on playing balls off the cushions into holes rather than playing them directly up the table and straight into holes. 3 pin and 4 pin Bar Billiards are a totally different games, 4 pin would die out if it was all about one player playing the table out. 4 pin is about having fun and trying and hoping to win at the same time. You must remember that us 4 pin players get to play on AEBBA tables or ones very similar once a year, so surely having a knock about on them on the Friday before our open isn't unfair, after all I have the feeling that many opens played on a Sunday are proceeded with some kind of tournament played on the day before. I am truly sorry if I have upset anyone by trying to make the 4 pin open fairer and more enjoyable for every person that takes the time and trouble to enter. I must also make this very clear that these are my thoughts only and nothing to do with any other 4 pin player or the Suffolk Bar Billiards Association . Dave
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Post by Coleman Jnr on Mar 26, 2015 19:40:20 GMT
Well since everyone is entitled to their own opinion I thought I would voice mine!
I did have a good time at the open, and think the admin team did a fantastic job to catch time back after the late start, so many opens finish much later without disruption so that was great to see! Also great to see the support for the competition locally, some great raffle prizes, and although I wasn't there the night before I hear there was great interest.
I think personally the reason most people are dissatisfied with the moving of the pins is probably because no one was aware of it, obviously most of us do not play 4 pin (I am aware some southern counties do have leagues) so I for one would just try and practice this style a couple of weeks before to get my eye in and learn the shots, then for those shots to then not be possible could be very frustrating! However all the games were very close, it made it interesting for everyone, yet when you look at the end result, most of the "big names" ended up finishing near where they would have hoped. Now we know that's how it will be, we have a whole year to practice a new break shot that each individual is comfortable with!
As for some of the formatting, I suppose you have to remember the AEBBA tournaments have been running for many years and have been fine tuned to try and make it as fair as possible. This is only the 2/3 open to be held in Sudbury and there is possibly ways we could suggest would make it fairer, however it is there tournament so it should be ran their way! The 3 pin players should look at it as a similar tournament to the alternative rules, a similar game as smaller breaks become soo much more important and every now again a curve ball winner gets their glory for the day (this was not intended to anyone specific in any tournament). Maybe Nigel could work his magic and come up with a format which allows a good number of legs and runs similar to normal AEBBA opens. Coming from a county currently trying to reintroduce an open, it does not give you great confidence to see negative comments after competitions (this is not aimed at anyone specific, and is not specific to this thread either, comments regularly get made after all opens on table quality, how far behind they are, venues etc).
Given the current situation of the game, I think it would be a disappointment if we was to discourage a new affililiation and competition just because there is a few kinks which require ironing out.
Just lastly I wanted to say none of this was aimed at anyone in particular and really did not say anything to annoy someone, just my own opinion on everything, and trying to remind everyone WE PLAY BAR BILLIARDS TO HAVE FUN!
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Post by bigtj on Mar 29, 2015 8:37:57 GMT
Well since everyone is entitled to their own opinion I thought I would voice mine! I did have a good time at the open, and think the admin team did a fantastic job to catch time back after the late start, so many opens finish much later without disruption so that was great to see! Also great to see the support for the competition locally, some great raffle prizes, and although I wasn't there the night before I hear there was great interest. I think personally the reason most people are dissatisfied with the moving of the pins is probably because no one was aware of it, obviously most of us do not play 4 pin (I am aware some southern counties do have leagues) so I for one would just try and practice this style a couple of weeks before to get my eye in and learn the shots, then for those shots to then not be possible could be very frustrating! However all the games were very close, it made it interesting for everyone, yet when you look at the end result, most of the "big names" ended up finishing near where they would have hoped. Now we know that's how it will be, we have a whole year to practice a new break shot that each individual is comfortable with! As for some of the formatting, I suppose you have to remember the AEBBA tournaments have been running for many years and have been fine tuned to try and make it as fair as possible. This is only the 2/3 open to be held in Sudbury and there is possibly ways we could suggest would make it fairer, however it is there tournament so it should be ran their way! The 3 pin players should look at it as a similar tournament to the alternative rules, a similar game as smaller breaks become soo much more important and every now again a curve ball winner gets their glory for the day (this was not intended to anyone specific in any tournament). Maybe Nigel could work his magic and come up with a format which allows a good number of legs and runs similar to normal AEBBA opens. Coming from a county currently trying to reintroduce an open, it does not give you great confidence to see negative comments after competitions (this is not aimed at anyone specific, and is not specific to this thread either, comments regularly get made after all opens on table quality, how far behind they are, venues etc). Given the current situation of the game, I think it would be a disappointment if we was to discourage a new affililiation and competition just because there is a few kinks which require ironing out. Just lastly I wanted to say none of this was aimed at anyone in particular and really did not say anything to annoy someone, just my own opinion on everything, and trying to remind everyone WE PLAY BAR BILLIARDS TO HAVE FUN! WE PLAY BAR BILLIARDS TO HAVE FUN!Just thought I would butt in and highlight this last comment, as I cannot comment on the rest of the debate as was not there, but that last sentiment is it in a nutshell, we all try our hardest when at the table but it is a pub game and we all surely go out to enjoy it.
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mal
Junior Forum Member
Posts: 16
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Post by mal on Mar 29, 2015 12:20:37 GMT
Hi. First of all, thanks to everyone who congratulated me. Naturally I was delighted to win. Congrats to Curt on his 3rd successive 4 pin final, and to Stephen and Luke in the plate.
It was a great day, with lots of close games. My 1/4 final against Nigel was only won after the bar (it was a very important coin toss to have won), and my final against Curt went down to the very last ball! In my own opinion, I only had 1 dodgy leg of billiards all day - which unfortunately was the second leg of the final and nearly cost me dearly! Curt edged ever closer throughout that second leg and I think even ended up slightly in front on aggregate as the bar was due. Very, very close and exciting game - great match that I am delighted to have been part of.
The last ball was a bit of a worry - I had been playing an 'aggressive' last ball shot all day and I only needed to sink it to win the final so I decided to play a 'safe' shot.....and then I realised I didn't actually know a 'safe' shot! I was pretty relieved to see the ball go down, especially as I lost one of my previous Open finals after the bar had gone in the second leg! I think I would have been teased about my bottle all the way home if I had lost this one too! ;)
I think it is a great tournament and I have really enjoyed myself both years I have entered, and will definitely be back again next year no matter what. So a big thank you to Dave and everyone else involved in organising and running the event, including everyone involved in the planning, schedules, running the admin desk, all the various elements of the table delivery, removal etc. (and last but not least the staff at the pub who served us our beer! ;) ). Seriously - your efforts are much appreciated.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2015 21:56:50 GMT
Just to wrap this one up............ I have picked these snaps up of the winners/runners-up from Facebook (hope no copyright exists). The new champ Mal Spier; Plate winner Stephen Coleman; Plate runner-up Luke Cole-Watts Presentation party flanking the players: (left) Chris Cass; (right) Jeremy Fry. Also worth repeating this comment from Chris Cass to which I'd also add my thanks:
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Post by milko on Oct 27, 2015 14:56:15 GMT
Can someone please tell me who were the 16 group winners for this event ?
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Post by lukecw1 on Nov 5, 2015 11:21:04 GMT
Group 16 Winner was Mal Spier and runner up into main competition Peter Payne, with Gareth Dell going into the plate competition.
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Post by daveuk1 on Nov 5, 2015 18:24:41 GMT
Lol Luke think you need to re-read the question unless I have read it wrong, I think milko wanted to know whom won each group
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2015 19:18:46 GMT
Quite so, and we've already provided Milko with the exact info he required for working out the points on the (separate) Tipsters thread.
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