Should we stage a separate "British Isles Open" ?

q said:

Sounds like you're ready to take on the organising Clive, and I cant think of a better person to do the job.

First of all, Q, I'm just a player these days, but if anyone calls on me for assistance I'll rally to the cause.
On the case in question, we appeared to be arguing round in circles, so I became the CAT-alyst.
I'm sure with Sir KT now down here in Sussex, this sort of thing is right up his street: look at how he's got things off the ground in Lancing - we scrabble around for a home each year, and with his contacts - Three Horseshoes - no problem !

Re tables - eight obviously not enough if it's to be crammed all into one day. But just supposing it were to be the Hall & Woodhouse British Isles Off-the-Spot Bar Billiards Open, they would surely wish it to be staged in one of their pubs: Is there one big enough to take 12 or more tables ?

[Secretary J.B.B.L.]

We still call the tournament in Jersey BIOC & World Championship because we still have both names registered.

I have mentioned in the past to the organisers (which I am now one) that it seems bizarre that we call it two different things. Maybe next year might be different.
We shall have to see what happens.

As to giving you guys some slack.... well that seems a rather harsh way to put it but as we still have it registered (registrations are 'bought' in blocks of years) you would be unable to use it even if we didn't. You would have to wait until it runs out. As to when that is, I shall find out for you all so that the name can be settled once and for all.

See you all in a few weeks.
Sean

"British Open" (as Sparky suggested) sounds good to me.
Any restrictions on that ?

[Herr von Puebik]

Or UK Invitational Open :-/ So it includes C.I. and I.O.M.

thedriver said:

Or UK Open :-/

No ! That would suggest the Channel Islands and I.O.M. couldn't enter. You're not paying attention !
I can say this to you as you're not a Distinguished Member yet ! ;)

[Sparky]

Pete I'm sure your assertion of the 'Off the Spot' title was as tongue in cheek as my own original post for 'On the Spot' and I also think such differences irrelevant :).

For me it is important that we find someone who will push through with all the interrelated topics of where, when, how many, how much, tables, playing schedules, advertising, finance (sponsors or ?), support network (delegation ?), etc.etc. for without that leadership nothing much will happen.

However I am also aware that it is a chicken and egg scenario at the moment as any such person/s would not want to set up a new tournament that is based hundreds of miles away, and it must be difficult for anyone interested to come foreward on the forum with so many variables available.

(If the AEBBA are interested in taking this idea foreward ? then the following words are not relevant.)

So how do we bring together any interested parties ?
Maybe the obvious 'suspects' could ring each other to test the waters, that is if they haven't already :-[, which could clear the way.

Or else we need a 'temporary but confidential go between' who can contact or be contacted, with the sole intention of clearing away misapprehensions or overlapping interests so that any serious plans get the best chance.

So will anybody who wants to volunteer please post here on the forum so everybody, on the forum at least, knows who to contact. As I have suggested it I will do it but think someone who is better known in the BB fraternity and has daytime access to phone calls/internet would be better.

PLEASE someone volunteer so things happen, it could be a waste of a good idea otherwise.

[mrmike007]

British Isles Open.

Could i suggest a name for the new competition, 'THE EUROPEAN OPEN', although this does not have the same kudos as 'THE WORLD' it would have a higher profile than British.
Your thoughts please!

Mrmike007 -
Why call it the European Open when it is held here?
The World Championships also is a bit silly as it is held in Jersey and “The world” doesn’t know of it, the number of people is great however the quantity of nationalities lets the name down!

I would call Jersey the British Isles Open too as it is held within the British Isles; also the players entering would be from the area.

Has Jersey had foreign players e.g. French or Russian?

If it hasn’t then this name should have been used for the Jersey Open.

I am in favour of the idea 100% of holding a new Open in January, it is hopefully going to attract a huge volume of players too.

Would ranking points be included in this event?

Also if it was held PLEASE don’t be “off the spot” rules.

Johnny,
I'm going to be as kind as possible to you over this.

What I suggest is that you organise a poll on this, quite simply with two alternatives:
Are you happy with the Open event held in Jersey each November being called the World Championships - a) Yes or b) No.
The result may surprise you when you find you are in a minority of one.

mrmike007 said:

British Isles Open.

Could i suggest a name for the new competition, 'THE EUROPEAN OPEN', although this does not have the same kudos as 'THE WORLD' it would have a higher profile than British.
Your thoughts please!

MrMike007 - like the idea and wonder why no-one's considered it before. You could have hit on the solution.

I'm very tempted to push my luck with Johnny though and suggest separate "Solar System Open", "Milky Way Galaxy Championships" and "Cosmos Invitation Tournament" - all played "Off-the-Spot", of course. ;D ;D ;D

[mrmike007]

Phil's Apprentice
I concur with you that the World Championship is more than a little over stated, however by name alone this competition is open to anyone within the World and excludes no one.
As we all know we already have a "BIOC Championship" in conjunction with "The World Championship" as stated in a previous postings they are both names registered by Jersey and unless they relinquish the ownership to "BIOC" this Title cannot be used.
Unless it is agreed that we can use the Title "BIOC" we must stay clear of "British Open", "British Blah Blah Blah" or anything else along those lines, I can understand the reason's for wanting to include the word "British" but i fear it will only be viewed as our attempt to reproduce what Jersey have already given us.

[milhouse]

What i cannot understand is how Jersey have both titles "world champs" and "BIOC" as both competitions cannot be held at once as seems to be the case. To be honest, they HAVE to relinquish one, unless they are going to hold 2 seperate tournaments, one for each title.

[fazza]

I am still trying to be nice to everyone incidentally, but this is all balderdash.

What the .... does it matter what an event is called? An event OFF the spot in preparation for either the International or the WORLD Championship is what the idea was all about as far as I am concerned.

Some posts here are just going around in ever decreasing circles!

And THAT IS being as nice as possible!

fazza said:

Some posts here are just going around in ever decreasing circles!

Well, round and round certainly ! Rather like a broken record.

I'd prefer to leave the oozelum bird out of this ! ;)

tommo said:

Johnny,
I'm going to be as kind as possible to you over this.

What I suggest is that you organise a poll on this, quite simply with two alternatives:
Are you happy with the Open event held in Jersey each November being called the World Championships - a) Yes or b) No.
The result may surprise you when you find you are in a minority of one.

I might appear out of the ordinary Tommo, but I can assure you that I am not the "only one". However I leave it up to them to decide to give there name!

sithlord said:

I might appear out of the ordinary Tommo, but I can assure you that I am not the "only one". However I leave it up to them to decide to give there name!

Well, no, you're not the only one.
If you check on our Blackadder quiz there was another George almost similar to you: He thought he was a "Small Village in Lincolnshire" whereas judging from your new Avatar you now think you're a "Small Pub in Cambridgeshire"! ;D

[Owners' Account]

I've always been confused about the Jersey actually being two tournaments, I mean it's either one or the other surly.... If I one it, I would call myself world champion, and never even mention it as the British Isle Open until the day I pass on....

Now I think about it, and this is no disrespect to Jersey, it's very unfair two have two names wrapped up.

Love from Tarquin Billington-Smythe!

[Colemanator]

5 years on from this last post, and I think that the answer is YES. infact I really think that it should be a bit more than that, and I think that it could generate TV (here we go again) interest. 8-) A world masters would be my vote.

Well the topic got hi-jacked towards the end and "Petered" out.

There were some good suggestions though, and the "masters" terminology gives further food for thought.

Darts now have their own 'Grand masters' and I think we should do the same and appoint Sir K.T. our first undisputed 'Bar Billiards Grandmaster'.

The Grand Prix should also be known henceforward as the "Grand Prix Masters" which is what it is really by definition.

[Colemanator]

I could slip into the 'Rod Harrington' role quite easily 8-) ;D

The Prince of Style, eh?
Didn't realise Harrington owned a pair of red shoes. ;D ;D ;D

[Colemanator]

He probably doesn't, i've got my eye on these www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mens-shoes-Size-6-7-8-9-10-11-12-Lace-up-Black-or-Red-Guciani-Italiana-/170730714328 Pretty cool 8-)

Very nice. Shall I ask them if they do them in Pink for you? ;D ;D ;D

[The Chubbster™]

I read this whole topic, and then saw it was started 5 years ago. I didn't even know the forum was 5 years old, and I created the damn thing!

Hello to friends old and new by the way. I'm old, I take it most of you are new.

First I must say, if anyone is going to be called "Grandmaster" it's me.

Secondly, have to agree with the name thing. 2 names for 1 tournament, what's that about? Should be World Championships and not the other thing.

Thirdly, I don't care much about point number 2. When I win it, you can bet your life I will be calling myself both names, and not mention to anyone outside the game about it not being 2 separate tournaments.

Forth, I miss Gina

Five, this was my one post for the year, so great to see everyone again. I'd come down for a knock up one night for old times sake, but there are a few sticking points in my way. First of all I don't have a cue, and secondly all the tables have gone. Did Chris Tupper eat them or something?

On topic, because it's important that after 5 years we stay on topic (that means I was the only moderator when this topic started, scary!) I would like to see a National Off The Spot Comp, or at least I would have done. Always amazed me that we didn't have one given that Jersey is played that way, although different tables of course.

It got me thinking, there should be more variety of tournaments and game types. I used to love 31's, not many other people did. How about some kind of tournament where you play loads of different game variations, a bit like in Swimming, they do that Medley race thing, all the different kind of strokes and stuff.

It links in with a a key problem I had back in the day (and i really do mean back in the day. I'm not up on the current state of things, so this i not a pop at anyone or anything going on now.... just to be clear), and an argument source with many people for sure. Bar Billiards never wanted to bring itself into the modern day. It was content to stay the way it had always been, and as Snooker found out, that never worked. Now of course sometimes things don't work sure, but it was the lack of trying that always got to me.

I came up with an idea of a "News of the World" like tournament, where each pub in Britain can have an in-house tournament, with winners going to regional finals, and then a grand final. Not only would this have been a massive event (with big prize money due to the fact that every pub player in the country could enter) but in turn that would have defiantly got some news attention, and in turn sponsorship. This of course raisers the profile of the game, helps get new players, which leads to better things etc etc etc.

It was an idea I floated. Oh but mentioning it to people, big mistake! They thought I was trying to take over Bar Billiards, the Barry Hearn of Bar Billiards so to speak (who love him or hate him, has taken Darts to a different Universe now, a very popular rich one at that... not bad for a pub sport, remind you of any other game you play in a pub?) They though Bar Billiards was not "big" enough  to try that kind of thing, and that it would never work, because it's too much work, and nobody will like it, and the sun will fall out of the sky and someone on the ABBA comittee might put out a hit on me..... Problem after problem after problem and in the end, It brings you down I assure you.

So hear I am, a 31 year old retired Bar Billiards player (a once in a generation player I might add, good or bad!), ex Brighton League Chairman (youngest ever) and founder of this very forum (more work than any of you could possibly imagine).... Retired because of stuff like that, and I can honestly say I've not missed it at all lol.

Sorry, rant over, I guess what with it being early in the morning and reading this old post just brought it all back. Oh my god, reading this back has made me realize I've become the very thing I always tried to protect you from. Sav, you either need to ban me, or rename my avatar thing "Darth Glenn"

Anyway, UK Open gets my vote lol

Good to see you all again. I keep saying I'll see you soon, but truth is I probably won't. But it's been good to chat, and I'd genuinely like to hear if people would consider a national off the spot singles or something like that. Remember that Bar Billiards is a great game, don;t let it die out.

Take care all, oh and by the way for all those wondering, I'm actually doing all the things I left the game to do, throw my name into YouTube sometime, and watch out for my play coming to a theatre near you soon :)

Hi Glenn,

Good to hear from you, and good too that you have kick-started this thread again.

Firstly, records show that you started the Forum up in April 2004, so amazingly it has been running nearly 8 years ! Although on the face of it we are stick-in-the-muds, completely resistant to change, much has happened in that time to change the game for the better and secure its future - often down to the Forum - and a debt of gratitude will thus always be owed to you, Glenn, for your vision in creating it in the first place, and of course to Sav for receiving the baton and applying his own energies ..........  

The last few years have witnessed the following introductions:

• development of a close working relationship with the AEBBA
  
• much work on standardizing and publicizing the playing rules
  
• adoption of an official (and fairer) ranking system
  
• the set of championship tables purchased by the AEBBA with the help of individual investments
  
• similar purchases by individual counties when BB Ltd ceased its trading
  
• two new 'Opens' (Guernsey and Surrey)
  
• AEBBA website maintaining full records of all tournaments
  other websites springing up all over the place (SCBBA similarly brought up to date)
  
• a map provided of all known venues for bar billiards in the UK - league or otherwise.
  

Some things remain as constants, the Forum remains a great vehicle of communication and is used by many as a results service and useful cross-check for individual websites.
The top players play the 'Open' circuit and Bournemouth Pairs and the World Championships in Jersey remain as popular as ever.
However in the current recession with beer approaching £4 a pint and petrol at an extortionate price, there appears to be a general reluctance to add any more events to the calendar. And, importantly, the bar billiards venues we are left with are utilised to the full, many spanning more than one league, and many taking aboard ready-made teams that have lost their venue through the pub closing (particularly relevant to Brighton at present).

Your idea of the News of the World type "Champion of Pub Champions" event (nothing new, incidentally, we had this back in the 1980s) is unlikely to be a goer as the non-league bar billiards world is twice as large as the league world - you only have to view the AEBBA map to see that.

However the mooted competition in the title header of this thread, a "British Isles Open" remains on the table as something worth considering........    

FOOD FOR THOUGHT.........
We have lost the Portsmouth Open off the calendar this year. In previous guises it has been the "Wessex Open" and the "Mermaid Open". Many of us have expressed the hope that "it will return one day, bigger and better".
Perhaps this could be reinvented in 2013 as the British Isles Open, played under off-the-spot rules, and from a smart hotel somewhere in the Portsmouth/Southsea region?

tommo

[bigjimsilverfox]

Jan 17, 2012 13:07:48 GMT tommo III said:

   

FOOD FOR THOUGHT.........
We have lost the Portsmouth Open off the calendar this year. In previous guises it has been the "Wessex Open" and the "Mermaid Open". Many of us have expressed the hope that "it will return one day, bigger and better".
Perhaps this could be reinvented in 2013 as the British Isles Open, played under off-the-spot rules, and from a smart hotel somewhere in the Portsmouth/Southsea region?

tommo

Quality Idea Tommo :)

[BB Warrior]

Jan 17, 2012 13:13:11 GMT bigjimsilverfox said:

Jan 17, 2012 13:07:48 GMT tommo III said:

   

FOOD FOR THOUGHT.........
We have lost the Portsmouth Open off the calendar this year. In previous guises it has been the "Wessex Open" and the "Mermaid Open". Many of us have expressed the hope that "it will return one day, bigger and better".
Perhaps this could be reinvented in 2013 as the British Isles Open, played under off-the-spot rules, and from a smart hotel somewhere in the Portsmouth/Southsea region?

tommo

Quality Idea Tommo :)

Nice to hear from Glenn and some good points made by Tommo. 8-)

I can reveal that the idea of holding a National Off-the-Spot Competition has been discussed by certain members of the SCBBA and, had we been able to obtain the venue we wanted on the dates we had in mind (which would have been around the time of the Sussex Open) the idea could have been a reality this year.... unfortunately the venue was not available and the likely costs of staging the event as a separate new competition in the current economical climate has meant that we have put the idea on hold until 2013 rather than this year.

I have heard that there is another party who has also discussed this idea with Dave Alder, so we (SCBBA) will await to hear more about that possibility before we take anything further on our side.

Personally, I would love to see an official "off-the-spot" Competition introduced on this side of the Channel and hope that it becomes a reality at some time in the near future, whether we need to incur the costs of holding it at a "smart hotel" or at a similar venue to those that the "Opens" are held at is debatable at a time when many of us are looking to spend money.... :-/

[Chris_Sav]

Great to hear from you old buddy!!

Sav

[The Chubbster™]

Thanks for the update guys. I see a lot has changed, and I'm glad it's for the better. Just can't believe the forum is 8 years old, where did all the time go?

More close working links with this forum and the AEBBA is a great idea, so that's good to know. I was also reading today that Nigel had started a national newsletter of sorts, which I also think is a great idea. Was that an old post or is that still going? I used to do one with Nigel for Brighton, as naturally a lot of people won't have access to the internet.

And your point is well taken with the current climate of this and many other countrys. It's a shame but the way it is. Still, at least the game is still going, and with the tables now being in the hands of the offical governing body, that can only be a great thing. Shame about the Portsmouth Open, I liked it up there. I have fond memories of it, Sav will tell you as he was standing right there next to me in shock lol. Come to think of it, that was my first ever national semi final. Got to three that year, and I think every other tournament I ever played in I lost in the first or second round :( I'm determined to correct that one day, but need a cue damn it.

Anyway, this was my second post of the year, so I might keep lurky around from time to time.

Oh and I know I've said this before, but I'll say it again and in truth it can;t be said enough, what you guys have done with this forum is amazing, and far beyond what I could have imagined or probably have done myself. It is you guys who deserve the thanks, not me I assure you.

The game owes you big time, and Sav, I still love you man. And that's not drink talking I assure you.