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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2016 19:50:55 GMT
Lateral thinking again..... The under 25's which effectively is a novices cup but limited to under 25's, i know lots of novices who have only been playing a few years but were too old to qualify before they started playing. Why not change this to a true novices cup for those who have been playing bb for less than say 8 years, which would be a roughly theoretical maximum number of years a newcomer to the pub game could have played. Obviously league secretaries would have to nominate and notify such players who would qualify. regs cs This sort of thing has been tried before, I believe a competition was once staged for "over 30s" with the crteria that anyone under Number 30 in the National Rankings was excluded from entering ! An interesting one is that in 2004 Phil Hawkins put up a special prize for the player making the most successful 200 shots in a match (which was won by Berkshire's Chris Ogden with five.) There are loads of ways we could make event participation more enticing. Anyway, any radical change like you're suggesting would now have to wait till 2017 AGM for consideration !
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Post by BigPhilMac on Dec 6, 2016 19:31:33 GMT
Lateral thinking again..... The under 25's which effectively is a novices cup but limited to under 25's, i know lots of novices who have only been playing a few years but were too old to qualify before they started playing. Why not change this to a true novices cup for those who have been playing bb for less than say 8 years, which would be a roughly theoretical maximum number of years a newcomer to the pub game could have played. Obviously league secretaries would have to nominate and notify such players who would qualify. regs cs I think such a competition is a good idea but is a bit utopian % it would rely on secretaries having the time and willpower to keep such records.
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Post by BigPhilMac on Dec 6, 2016 19:33:53 GMT
I remember 2014 a round Robin was played with just 5 players and there was a final of the top two in the group. It's also a similar format we did during the inter area one day event. That's why it seems strange that it wasn't done this year in the same fashion. I can understand a final when above 4 as you said there were 5. I still think a final could be played, it could give the group runner up a chance to redeem themself if they had a shocker in the round Robin stage. I'm sure though on the flip side if they wanted to play a final, one could of been easily organised. I doubt there would of been an issue.
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Post by gandalf the untidy on Dec 6, 2016 19:40:44 GMT
Lateral thinking again..... The under 25's which effectively is a novices cup but limited to under 25's, i know lots of novices who have only been playing a few years but were too old to qualify before they started playing. Why not change this to a true novices cup for those who have been playing bb for less than say 8 years, which would be a roughly theoretical maximum number of years a newcomer to the pub game could have played. Obviously league secretaries would have to nominate and notify such players who would qualify. regs cs I think such a competition is a good idea but is a bit utopian % it would rely on secretaries having the time and willpower to keep such records. I would think most/some secretaries would react positively, lets keep an eye on the target which is... would it produce more novice entrants?
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Post by daveuk1 on Dec 6, 2016 21:18:23 GMT
Does that mean as I play four pin and have only ever played a handfull of three pin games, and never won any of them, that I am classed as a novice, or would you just call me a crap player Dave
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Post by gandalf the untidy on Dec 6, 2016 22:00:21 GMT
Does that mean as I play four pin and have only ever played a handfull of three pin games, and never won any of them, that I am classed as a novice, or would you just call me a crap player Dave Think you're in a class of your own Dave, but you would be eligible if your league secretary, a responsible adult, (...if such a person exists in Sudbury!) declared you had played 3 pin for less than the specified period
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Post by BigPhilMac on Dec 7, 2016 6:27:24 GMT
I think such a competition is a good idea but is a bit utopian % it would rely on secretaries having the time and willpower to keep such records. I would think most/some secretaries would react positively, lets keep an eye on the target which is... would it produce more novice entrants? I would hope there would be a positive response, I'm just an old cynic %
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Post by milhouse on Dec 7, 2016 10:29:05 GMT
Lateral thinking again..... The under 25's which effectively is a novices cup but limited to under 25's, i know lots of novices who have only been playing a few years but were too old to qualify before they started playing. Why not change this to a true novices cup for those who have been playing bb for less than say 8 years, which would be a roughly theoretical maximum number of years a newcomer to the pub game could have played. Obviously league secretaries would have to nominate and notify such players who would qualify. regs cs So this means the current World Champion would be eligible to play in this competition if available to people who have been playing less than 8 years.....
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Post by BigPhilMac on Dec 7, 2016 11:05:26 GMT
Lateral thinking again..... The under 25's which effectively is a novices cup but limited to under 25's, i know lots of novices who have only been playing a few years but were too old to qualify before they started playing. Why not change this to a true novices cup for those who have been playing bb for less than say 8 years, which would be a roughly theoretical maximum number of years a newcomer to the pub game could have played. Obviously league secretaries would have to nominate and notify such players who would qualify. regs cs So this means the current World Champion would be eligible to play in this competition if available to people who have been playing less than 8 years..... Should the world champion be punished for being that good?
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Post by gandalf the untidy on Dec 7, 2016 16:16:11 GMT
So this means the current World Champion would be eligible to play in this competition if available to people who have been playing less than 8 years..... Should the world champion be punished for being that good? yep though i would have thought he would concentrate on the grand prix
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Post by BigPhilMac on Dec 7, 2016 17:51:00 GMT
Should the world champion be punished for being that good? yep though i would have thought he would concentrate on the grand prix He could be an eager beaver and go all in with the kitchen sink to take the lot.
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Post by BB Warrior on Dec 7, 2016 18:23:18 GMT
Lateral thinking again..... The under 25's which effectively is a novices cup but limited to under 25's, i know lots of novices who have only been playing a few years but were too old to qualify before they started playing. Why not change this to a true novices cup for those who have been playing bb for less than say 8 years, which would be a roughly theoretical maximum number of years a newcomer to the pub game could have played. Obviously league secretaries would have to nominate and notify such players who would qualify. regs cs Although I completely agree that things do need to be looked at as far as this (and other) competitions are concerned, however I am really struggling to understand the logic behind this suggestion? To me, a "true novice" is somebody that has only been playing the game for about a year.... certainly not 8 years! By that time, most players will have developed as far as they are likely to ever do, we all know that some players have played 30 years and they will still be beaten regularly by people that have only played a few games. We also know that some other players become very good in a very short space of time, our current world champion certainly proves that point. So.... why 8 years if it is intended to be for players that are still learning the game? Do you really think that League secretaries would spend hours looking at their records to provide lists of eligible players? Do you really think that the players involved would even want to take part in a national competition? Surely, if they did, then they would already play in some of the Opens so what does this competition offer that is different and would make them want to play? As we all know, the age of our players in the game increases every year and fewer youngsters now start playing, so clearly the age limit does need to be looked at as far as the Under 25's competition in the future. If we want better competitions for the players that are not so "experienced", then maybe we need to consider restricting entry to Plate Competitions and excluding the Top 20 (or 50) from taking part in those.... but, to be fair to the "top players", I think that there would then have to be some kind of seeded draw to avoid players excluded from the Plate being drawn against each other in the first round. Obviously, that would not be agreeable to everyone..... The AEBBA Over 50's and 60's competitions should be changed to just ONE competition, probably Over 60's would now be more appropriate for this as most players now qualify for both competitions.... this could then be run on the same day as the Grand Prix to get more people at the venue and save additional travelling for many players. I know that there were proposals made at the AGM for changes to the County Championships.... but I have not seen any feedback yet from the AGM as to what was agreed? I would hope that the AEBBA Committee will be looking at all of the national tournaments to see if there is a better way that these can be organised and arranged.... there were a lot of good suggestions on other threads here that could be used to look at different dates and venues for competitions so hopefully we will hear what was discussed at the AGM soon.
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Post by gandalf the untidy on Dec 7, 2016 18:39:44 GMT
The 8 years, as i tried to explain, would be how many years a player could have been playing and still be under 25, yes its a bit arbitrary but so is the "under 25's".You seemed to have missed the point of finding a way to optimise the numbers that would qualify for this rebranded comp, and its only a suggestion for discussion, seems to have drawn a few old faithfuls out. when all i want to do is find a way to draw out a few more players.
League secretaries (well the ones i know) are extremely conscientious and i've no doubt they would rise to this minor challenge if required and if i was a secretary i would probably take offence at your comments.
still some good points elsewhere in your response
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Post by JB on Dec 7, 2016 23:58:08 GMT
Here's a summary of a few things at the AGM (may not be exactly right it was a long day so don't take it as gospel and I'm sure the minutes will be published soon)
County Champ proposal was passed 8-3 Think under 25's is now under 30's It will be decided if the alternative rules will be played as the triangle game or 4 pin nearer the time. I think it will be played on the Saturday of the Northants Open weekend This is to help free up a weekend sept/oct/nov time when most of the AEBBA comps are held Some Comps have moved around example men's & Ladies individual are being played on the same day alongside over 50's
Some competitions have also been moved from Didcot to Totteridge (can't remember which ones)
As I said don't take this as a correct record
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curtd
Distinguished Member
Posts: 616
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Post by curtd on Dec 8, 2016 10:31:55 GMT
How about a comp for anyone who has never won a national singles title ??
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2016 10:47:46 GMT
All these new competitions being proposed: surely dependent on some kind benefactor donating Perpetual Trophies (start at about £60) ? Unreasonable to expect them to come out of AEBBA funds. Surely this is enough ? Think under 25's is now under 30's
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Post by JB on Dec 8, 2016 12:00:35 GMT
When you say all these new comps what new comps do you mean
I don't know if the perpetuals need to change. Im not sure but think the under 25 used to be under 21? Did the trophy change then?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2016 12:38:39 GMT
When you say all these new comps what new comps do you mean I don't know if the perpetuals need to change. Im not sure but think the under 25 used to be under 21? Did the trophy change then? Just think it's a bit futile at this stage to suggest new-style competitions such as a "Novice Players" or a "Never Won" with the AGM just passed. Half-hearted discussions on this theme have been taking place throughout the year but not submitted to the 2016 AGM. So let's discuss them in 2017. It would have been better for AEBBA to entitle the U21/U22/U23/U25/U30 competition the "Younger Players Competition" and for the committee to establish the qualification each year as they go along. No, I'm not suggesting it needs a new trophy. A line can be added to the existing one showing it has been re-dedicated as "Under 30s".
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Post by milhouse on Dec 9, 2016 19:35:20 GMT
Here's a summary of a few things at the AGM (may not be exactly right it was a long day so don't take it as gospel and I'm sure the minutes will be published soon) County Champ proposal was passed 8-3 Think under 25's is now under 30's It will be decided if the alternative rules will be played as the triangle game or 4 pin nearer the time. I think it will be played on the Saturday of the Northants Open weekend This is to help free up a weekend sept/oct/nov time when most of the AEBBA comps are held Some Comps have moved around example men's & Ladies individual are being played on the same day alongside over 50's Some competitions have also been moved from Didcot to Totteridge (can't remember which ones) As I said don't take this as a correct record Surely this would need to be proposed and voted on at an AGM to change the rules of a competition?
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Post by JB on Dec 9, 2016 19:43:39 GMT
Perhaps best to wait for the minutes to be publicised as I can't remember exactly what the result of the proposal was. My thoughts are AEBBA run an alternative rules comp. Both triangle and 4 pin are classed as alternative rules so either could be played. Perhaps someone else who was at the AGM could confirm what was agreed.
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Post by Chris on Dec 9, 2016 20:27:04 GMT
Would be best if all waited for the minutes.
To be fair it is near to Xmas and Dave A has lots to do, as well as get minutes done.
I note that no one volunteered to do them this year - I will next year to take a fair share. Lorin did last year me the year before.
If people wanted to know instantly they needed to be at the AGM.
Quoting on here re the AGM does not help without the actual facts of the meeting.
Thanks Chris
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Post by gandalf the untidy on Dec 9, 2016 20:34:32 GMT
Would be best if all waited for the minutes. To be fair it is near to Xmas and Dave A has lots to do, as well as get minutes done. I note that no one volunteered to do them this year - I will next year to take a fair share. Lorin did last year me the year before. If people wanted to know instantly they needed to be at the AGM. Quoting on here re the AGM does not help without the actual facts of the meeting. Thanks Chris
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Post by Chris on Dec 9, 2016 22:41:52 GMT
So what are you trying to say Colin with this ancient u-tube clip?
That the minutes will not be accurate, honest, a reflection of the meeting ???
Could you say why you put this clip up please - just so I can understand ? Or was it a joke ? If so to whom ??
Thanks Chris
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Post by gandalf the untidy on Dec 9, 2016 23:37:01 GMT
So what are you trying to say Colin with this ancient u-tube clip? That the minutes will not be accurate, honest, a reflection of the meeting ??? Could you say why you put this clip up please - just so I can understand ? Or was it a joke ? If so to whom ?? Thanks Chris well i thought it was funny!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2016 23:51:03 GMT
Has Dave as Secretary also been tasked with issuing the revised set of Rules ?
Certain advanced information can surely be released, such as whether or not there has been any officialdom changes.
Jean's 'heads-up' on the competition changes was gratefully received.
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Post by JB on Dec 10, 2016 0:20:35 GMT
I was just trying to answer Dave's post so am sorry if i caused any controversy. It seems to be following me at the moment. Perhaps I should make it my middle name!
If you want me to delete my post let me know as I didn't realise it was going to cause trouble.
Looking forward to the Xmas break with no billiards and lots of time to chill with the odd mince pie and glass of wine.
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Post by Chris_Sav on Dec 10, 2016 8:12:36 GMT
It would be a sterile place if you could not add what you consider a helpful post Jean.
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