Berks Open Draw 2017

[David.G]

Hi All

Here is the Draw

First Round

Barry Radford v Mark Brewster
Phil Hawkins v Lee Radford
Gary Powell v Tony Martin
Curt Driver v Bob Hall

Sean Stratford v Kyle Ingram
Matt Jones v Michelle Baden
Ernie Jordan v Alfie Millward
Ros Appleby v Kevin Tunstall

Paul Jobbins v Tony Brown
Jim Belchin v Ian Lelliott
Jack Baden v Colin Southouse
John Slee v Brian Dawkins

Phil Osbourne v Dave White
Simon Coleman v Stuart Carruthers
Dawn Jordan v Andy Burns
Janet Burns v Phil MacPharland

Gerry Fitzjohn v Mark Trafford (Winner will play Matt Knight in Second Round)

Second Round

Jon Scoones v Nigel Senior
Heather Millward v Tony Cross
Jim Millward v Joe Oakley

Bob Osbourne v Keith Lewendon
Dave Ingram v Dave Tooke
Alan Donovan v Uncle Terry
Dave Alder v Auntie Pauline

[Colemanator]

Alan Donovan, haven't seen him for at least 30 years.

[David.G]

Aug 23, 2017 21:51:30 GMT Colemanator said:

Alan Donovan, haven't seen him for at least 30 years.

Is that the pot calling the kettle black??

Haven't seen you in that long either, where you bin' ???

Oundle Golf Course ?

[BigPhilMac]

Dave you've spelt my name dreadfully lol. It's McFarland.

[Colemanator]

Aug 25, 2017 20:07:44 GMT David.G said:

Aug 23, 2017 21:51:30 GMT Colemanator said:

Alan Donovan, haven't seen him for at least 30 years.

Is that the pot calling the kettle black??

Haven't seen you in that long either, where you bin' ???

Laying low

[Colemanator]

Aug 25, 2017 20:34:41 GMT tommo III said:

Oundle Golf Course ?

Actually played yesterday there in the Bar Billiards golf day Full English breakfast, bad golf, good company

[NigelS]

Start timee for next Sunday

TIME	TABLE			PLAYERS		PLAYERS
11.00	1	MAIN	R1	Phil Hawkins	v	Lee Radford
11.00	2	MAIN	R1	Gary Powell	v	Tony Martin
11.00	3	MAIN	R1	Sean Stratford	v	Kyle Ingram
11.00	4	MAIN	R1	Ernie Jordan	v	Alfie Millward
11.00	5	MAIN	R1	Jim Belchin	v	Ian Lelliott
11.00	6	MAIN	R1	John Slee	v	Brian Dawkins
11.00	7	MAIN	R1	Simon Coleman	v	Stuart Carruthers
11.00	8	MAIN	R1	Dawn Jordan	v	Andy Burns
11.45	1	MAIN	R1	Barry Radford	v	Mark Brewster
11.45	2	MAIN	R1	Gerry Fitzjohn	v	Mark Trafford
11.45	3	MAIN	R1	Matt Jones	v	Michelle Baden
11.45	4	MAIN	R1	Ros Appleby	v	Kevin Tunstall
11.45	5	MAIN	R1	Paul Jobbins	v	Tony Brown
11.45	6	MAIN	R1	Jack Baden	v	Colin Southouse
11.45	7	MAIN	R1	Phil Osbourne	v	Dave White
11.45	8	MAIN	R1	Janet Burns	v	Phil MacPharland
12.30	1	MAIN	R2	Heather Millward	v	Tony Cross
12.30	2	MAIN	R1	Curt Driver	v	Bob Hall
12.30	3	MAIN	R2	Jim Millward	v	Joe Oakley
12.30	4	MAIN	R2	Jon Scoones	v	Nigel Senior
12.30	5	MAIN	R2	Alan Donovan	v	Terry Alder
12.30	6	MAIN	R2	Dave Alder	v	Pauline Withey
12.30	7	MAIN	R2	Bob Osbourne	v	Keith Lewendon
12.30	8	MAIN	R2	Dave Ingram	v	Dave Tooke
1.15	3	MAIN	R2	Mark Trafford/ Gerry Fitzjohn	v	Matt Knight

[gandalf the untidy]

sorry about the short notice Dave, but please remove me from the draw as i can no longer make the event, hopefully someone will be able to take my place.

["Silent"]

Congratulations to Dave Ingram on winning the Berks Open. Dave beat Ian Lelliott in a close and competitive final with both players having opportunities to win and it was not until very close to the end that Dave made sure of his victory. Dave had beaten Mark Trafford in one semi-final and Ian beat Mark Brewster in the other. In Dave's semi it looked as those Traff was going to be victorious but an untimely peg halted his progress and Dave made sure, Mark did have the consolation of the highest break of the day smashing a 20k plus in a demolition of "Silent". In Ian's semi he produced an excellent match against Rooster, playing one of the trickiest tops in the competition as well as anyone had done all day.

Nigel Senior won the plate beating Gary Powell. Well done to both in performing well on another tricky top.

Thanks to all who organised the day, fair to say a number of the tables were very challenging, indeed in 3 consecutive matches Gary could only get the break if he played it the reverse way round.....

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Finally (a small moan) in the section of the draw that contained Nigel a player did not turn up. This meant that Mark had played two matches before Nigel played him in his first one (surely a disadvantage), Nigel lost that match so was then in the plate because he had a walkover in his first match with the guy not turning up, so we were left with the ridiculous situation that Mark put three people into the plate after Nigel had gone straight into the last 16 without playing and ending up winning the plate!! Obviously there are times when people have good reasons for not turning up or dropping out, but there seems to have been more of it than ever in the last 2 seasons, adding to the already diminishing numbers in the opens

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Sorry Dave I realise some of my post has moved away from your victory but well done again on your win

[BB Warrior]

Sept 3, 2017 23:53:51 GMT "Silent" said:

Sorry Dave I realise some of my post has moved away from your victory but well done again on your win

No apology needed Matthew, as always you provided an excellent report of the day.

Obviously, I am to have won the competition and, as Matthew has already said, I certainly enjoyed my moments of luck on the day to get through and in the final itself where Ian and I both had plenty of chances on a table that neither of us really got to grips with.... the tables that I played all offered their own challenges and you had to be able to adapt to them which personally I quite like.

Congratulations to Nigel on winning the Plate Competition and Mark T on the high break award, to complete the report of the day here is the quarter-final line up....

Mark Brewster beat Matt Jones
Ian Lelliott beat Phil Osborne
Mark Trafford beat Tony Cross
Dave Ingram beat Dave Alder

I would add my thanks to all involved in organising and running the day.... particularly Dave Alder and Janet Burns on the Admin Desk, Myra Hawkins for running the raffle and to the Arborfield Club for hosting the day. I also thought that the kitchen provided some very good food at very reasonable prices.

[BB Warrior]

Sept 3, 2017 23:53:51 GMT "Silent" said:

Finally (a small moan) in the section of the draw that contained Nigel a player did not turn up. This meant that Mark had played two matches before Nigel played him in his first one (surely a disadvantage), Nigel lost that match so was then in the plate because he had a walkover in his first match with the guy not turning up, so we were left with the ridiculous situation that Mark put three people into the plate after Nigel had gone straight into the last 16 without playing and ending up winning the plate!! Obviously there are times when people have good reasons for not turning up or dropping out, but there seems to have been more of it than ever in the last 2 seasons, adding to the already diminishing numbers in the opens

With regards to this, I would agree that it was slightly bizarre that one player (Mark Trafford) can put 3 players (Gerry Fitzjohn, Matthew Knight and Nigel Senior) into the Plate in one competition.... although you have to admire his achievement bearing in mind the quality of those opponents!

This is the section of the draw that was affected....

Aug 23, 2017 17:56:20 GMT David.G said:

Gerry Fitzjohn v Mark Trafford (Winner will play Matt Knight in Second Round)

Second Round

Jon Scoones v Nigel Senior

It is certainly NOT the fault of the organisers if one of the players fails to turn up on the day which is what caused this situation to happen and the only thing that possibly could have been changed would have been to make the match between Gerry and Mark a second round game and get Matthew to play Nigel in their first match of the day which would have avoided the situation although this may not have been possible because of timings and table schedules....

It does seem strange that Nigel (through no fault of his own) has won the Plate Competition and also got a Grand Prix point for reaching the Last 16 of the main competition.... sadly I think that this could start to become a more common occurence in the future with numbers dropping in national competitions, so perhaps AEBBA need to look at the rules for Grand Prix points at some time soon.

[Chris]

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Finally (a small moan) in the section of the draw that contained Nigel a player did not turn up. This meant that Mark had played two matches before Nigel played him in his first one (surely a disadvantage), Nigel lost that match so was then in the plate because he had a walkover in his first match with the guy not turning up, so we were left with the ridiculous situation that Mark put three people into the plate after Nigel had gone straight into the last 16 without playing and ending up winning the plate!! Obviously there are times when people have good reasons for not turning up or dropping out, but there seems to have been more of it than ever in the last 2 seasons, adding to the already diminishing numbers in the opens


Sadly that often happens Matt, you of all people should know re the Plate at Bucks 2016 and your exceptional long, long wait for a game. (S**T hope it was plate and not main, thinking now it might be main initially apologies if it was Matt xxx)

Would this have been posted had it been me and not Nigel ? - Sorry not getting at you at all or Nigel, I promise my friends, but many have had this in the first rounds and not been highlighted before in the past.

I no longer play most Opens as I don't want to play the plate. So I am one competitor down. We are now many competitors down especially at middle levels.

We must concentrate on up and coming players or enticing back those who can play, as you quite rightly say above, increase the diminishing numbers.

Sadly many of us fluctuate in the seasons from Brill to OMG how bad is that.... Sadly Matt A FEW of the attitudes OF REALLY GOOD PLAYERS don't give us confidence to come back .

Maybe instead of Mixed Pairs there could be a pairs competition where all players are seeded according to Nigel rankings and after all entries declared the top seed has the bottom seed as a pair regardless of gender ?? At least the enjoyment may come back for some of the lower players.

Just a thought not at all a moan.
Chris xxx

["Silent"]

I would say it more often Chrissie. It happens so regularly now that people don't turn up, many I am sure with good reason, and rightly as you say going back to last year in the Bucks Open probably the WORST EVER!! I don't say it because it can offend people who have very good reasons and the people that haven't just aren't bothered so it's wasted. It messes it up for the hard-working organisers, players who have to wait forever to play, and then you end up playing a great player in the plate. Many will say it's only the plate but if you plan on staying the whole day (as a hardy few do to help with scoring etc.) it's nice to have a game rather than just sit and drink lime and water all day!!!!! As it happened in my plate match I was utterly dreadful and ended up making more of an exhibition of myself than normal

I fully accept your comments about confidence and I'm pretty sure that is a reason that some (not all) players have left the open scene. In Brighton we are very lucky that our local off the spot fills with 24 players in no time (with reserves as I am sure you noticed) I have absolutely no idea what the answer is to increase numbers, although Martin Pellett's comments about the County Championships were very revealing. If you think that a different sort of competition would be enticing then go for it and see what happens.

Travelling remains a big issue with players, some will travel short distances but only a few nutters will travel the many miles that are involved in playing all the national competitions

[bigtj]

I agree the numbers are dropping in the Opens and other competitions in general, thought the National Off the Spot would be well subscribed but proved wrong so far.

Not sure what the solution is but I do think we are losing a lot of the middle to lower players due to travelling, maybe just sitting watching an opponent knock in a winning score in the main and then having to wait around for the plate and then losing the toss and again watching a winning score go in on the first break is not to everyone`s liking, I personally like to go along and see the best play and try my hardest to upset one of the top seeds.

With more dropping out ( not entering ) the first rounds become increasing liable that you will draw a top 20 player, and also that they will also draw each other therefore making the plate as hard as the main. This may again start to put off more entrants, travelling and then the expense of the day maybe another reason, the average age of players as a general rule is going up and that could be another contributing factor. I do when possible support most Opens and other competitions but am looking towards next Open season and deciding whether to attend all or be selective.

I do not as a rule do the Alternate rules, mixed doubles is dependent on finding a partner willing to carry a heavy weight, the Over 50s and 60s I would do both if on the same day, but am loathe to travel a distance twice to perhaps play one game. If you travel alone there is the cost factor, a shared car is always the better, also as a driver there is the drink and driving side of things, I am ok on soft drinks but some do like to have a beer or two.

So weekends like Suffolk, Northants, Guernsey, Jersey and Bournemouth appeal more as once there do not need to drive until time to come home so can relax and have a couple of beers myself.

Do not think we get enough of the younger players entering the Opens to help increase the numbers for the future. There maybe many reasons the youngsters do not attend, but think this is an arrear we need to look at how we can encourage them to take part for the long term future of national events.

Hi TJ - and Silent,
Whilst I agree with both the sentiment and content of your posts, the discussion will go nowhere if it continues on this thread (for Berks Open Draw 2017).

Much has already been said elsewhere on the future of the game and possibilities for saving it: There's this thread for instance under "General Bar Billiards Discussion":
barbilliards.proboards.com/thread/13754/changing-world-bar-billiards-again

But this is only one of many. Can we not gather all the appropriate threads together in one place and encourage a good free-for-all ?

[Jemma]

I have an idea as to why younger or less experienced players may not be willing to play and it's because they don't want to be completely humiliated when a higher player puts 10-15k past them and they stand no chance of catching it let alone beating it. I'm speaking from the voice of experience as I've only been playing less than a year and this happened to me in a normal league game, it made me want to snap my cue and never play again. Just a thought.

[mikedaw1985]

Here's another reason. Society in general has changed. More people do shift work as we live in an ever increasing 24 hour society which does not allow people to play the game as its evening based for local leagues and many people now work late shifts like i do. Also ever increasing demands on peoples finances with peoples rent/mortgages and general bills always going up year on year meaning people cant afford the regular few nights down the pub that people used to do each week and therefore they choose to drink at home or not at all. All that means less people play the game in general meaning less teams in each league. This leads to what happens to players like blackmamba99 where we can no longer create divisions for teams where it would make the game more even and competitive. Instead every team plays eachother leading to a big variation in quality of teams and players. I myself have stopped playing in the Hastings league as i got critised too many times for playing well. I spent the last season there playing to 3k and stopping. Then i would clear the balls and deliberately fluff it. Not fun for me as i want competition.