Jelkes on Ebay...................thoughts on this ?

[alanturner]

What are anybodies thoughts on this Jelkes that appeared for sale on Ebay today

Item No. 162731955264

[Chris_Sav]

They won't get half what they are asking, probably worth about a quarter as cosmetically poorly presented.

[barbelman]

How much!?  It's not even in very good nick - as Chris said, poorly presented.  Decals missing, no back board, dirty inside and a lot of bullshine in the description.....

Seeing Selsey as the address of the vendor, I thought I'd do a bit of investigation as we have two reputable families in the vicinity who do sundry buying and selling.

This is definitely not their style. Anyone expecting more than 2k for a table is 'aving a laugh.

Looking at the vendor's history, several pool tables are mentioned in past sales: my guess then is that this is a gaming machine firm with a sideline in pool table refurbishments and a bar billiards table has come their way, on which they have performed a so-called refurbishment which in this case is nothing more than a rub-down of the wood and a re-cloth.

Besides, the legs (=round, pre-war) do not match the ball tray (=sloping bar at top, indicating post-war which should have thrupenny bit legs). So what we refer to as a 'hybrid'. Reckon the figure put on it by Chris is more realistic, and even then possibly on the high side as money would have to be knocked off for the absence of a back board, half the score indicators, and lack of accessories.

[alanturner]

Didnt notice until i had a second look.............is the support wood under the slate bolted right through , presumably using countersunk bolts ?

Is this normal ?

One feature i do like on the Jelkes , is the wooden support running across the table under the front end of the timer mechanism bed , i will probably put one of these on every table i work on from now on .

[Chris_Sav]

Nov 1, 2017 19:00:15 GMT alanturner said:

Didnt notice until i had a second look.............is the support wood under the slate bolted right through , presumably using countersunk bolts ?

Is this normal ?

One feature i do like on the Jelkes , is the wooden support running across the table under the front end of the timer mechanism bed , i will probably put one of these on every table i work on from now on .

The wooden bar under the clock should not be of any use whatsoever if the clock is rigid and in good condition. The pressure on the clock when the timer bar is lifted is actually away from the underside bar. In my earlier work I used to drill the clock base and put a screw through into the underside bar to hold the clock if the clock was floppy. That cured the symptoms but not the problem and made swapping out the clock more difficult. Nowadays I fix the clock!!

Agree with the rest of the comments, table is quite battered and I prefer the later tables anyway. 

The holes under the slate are for the wooden lionide covered board and the screws are missing. The hole scores board across the front does not match the ball tray as the screw holes do not line up with the tray dividers so it is not attached to the tray as it should be, Top frame corners look to be coming apart, lots missing, especially the entire front right undertray support!! you can see daylight where that should be!! (compare it with the left hand side) 

[alanturner]

Sav.

What your saying all sounds good to me

Its the thread and bolt head either side of the 200 hole that concern me , it looks like there are 2 more near the 100 hole.

I am thinking of putting in an offer of £400 , just to see what the response is , mmmmmmm...But it would cost me over £100 just to collect ???

470 mile round trip , overnight stay ?

It is quite redeemable a the right price .mmmmmmmmmmmm Undecided of Nantwich !

[Chris_Sav]

Nov 1, 2017 22:09:28 GMT alanturner said:

Sav.

Its the thread and bolt head either side of the 200 hole that concern me , it looks like there are 2 more near the 100 hole.

Yes that's quite normal on Jelks slates, the table I am working on at present is an early one like that and has the countersunk bolts through the slate.

I have found the internal separators to the ball runs are very fragile on the old and dried out wood on mine. Paid £350 on behalf of my league for this with a lot of similar work to do. Nothing insurmountable as you say and fortunately time is not money to me as my league will only be charged for materials. 

[alanturner]

Nov 1, 2017 22:26:21 GMT Chris_Sav said:

Nov 1, 2017 22:09:28 GMT alanturner said:

Sav.

Its the thread and bolt head either side of the 200 hole that concern me , it looks like there are 2 more near the 100 hole.

Yes that's quite normal on Jelks slates, the table I am working on at present is an early one like that and has the countersunk bolts through the slate.

I have found the internal separators to the ball runs are very fragile on the old and dried out wood on mine. Paid £350 on behalf of my league for this with a lot of similar work to do. Nothing insurmountable as you say and fortunately time is not money to me as my league will only be charged for materials. 

How strange , none of the 4 Jelks tables that have passed through my hands have had bolts through the table .

I suppose they are fillered on the top face . For £350 if its got a clock thats pretty damn good .

I do the tables and the other parts to keep me busy / active makes a little bit , but usually ploughed back in for tools etc  I think i am supposed to make a profit but generally its about evens , but i enjoy it .Just bought a bandsaw today , got it from an 85 year old guy in Otley , just above Leeds......He has just spent the last 12 years totally rebuilding a 1927 Riley , it is stunning .

[Chris_Sav]

Well we are miles off topic but same here, I buy tools for the jobs but only top quality ones.

link to thread cutter

32mm one of these Is what I keep looking at for the more modern octagonal leg thread but have always managed to repair the existing thread, thus my wallet is still safe.

[alanturner]

Nov 2, 2017 8:40:59 GMT Chris_Sav said:

Well we are miles off topic but same here, I buy tools for the jobs but only top quality ones.

link to thread cutter

32mm one of these Is what I keep looking at for the more modern octagonal leg thread but have always managed to repair the existing thread, thus my wallet is still safe.

Maybe someone will by you one for Christmas !!!

Looks a good bit of kit.......German ........yet another subsadised company probably.

Very interesting , thanks for that.

[Chris_Sav]

Yup, Father Christmas night be kind!!


Part of the reason I prefer the newer tables. I've totally failed to find a thread cutter for the 35mm 3½ TPI threads on the early round leg ones.

[Chris_Sav]

That table's down to the give-away price of £2150 

[dillon]

Nov 4, 2017 8:38:06 GMT Chris_Sav said:

That table's down to the give-away price of £2150 

Nice legs..... shame about the price. Got a feeling this one is going to come back onto ebay a few more times until it approaches reality!

[barbelman]

Down to £1700 now - getting there slowly...

A war of attrition going on here !
Daveuk1 and myself have made a couple of derisory offers to highlight the over-pricing.
He/she was very rude to Dave, and I have since itemised all the factors causing a mark-down from the realistic ceiling price of £1000 for a good-condition Jelkes.
I have suggested he/she lets it run to auction rather than buy-it-now and make offer.....a reserve of £500 could be applied to avoid giving it away: slate, legs and timer appear to be sound and it has after all had a re-cloth.

[joiner88]

But gentlemen it full of "historic history" so must be worth every penny

Nov 9, 2017 20:43:45 GMT joiner88 said:

But gentlemen it full of "historic history" so must be worth every penny

....so are my spare set of white markers which I've offered him for a snip at £300.

[alanturner]

Nov 8, 2017 11:30:32 GMT tommo III said:

A war of attrition going on here !
Daveuk1 and myself have made a couple of derisory offers to highlight the over-pricing.
He/she was very rude to Dave, and I have since itemised all the factors causing a mark-down from the realistic ceiling price of £1000 for a good-condition Jelkes.
I have suggested he/she lets it run to auction rather than buy-it-now and make offer.....a reserve of £500 could be applied to avoid giving it away: slate, legs and timer appear to be sound and it has after all had a re-cloth.i

It may have had a re-cloth , but were the rubbers replaced ?

Well, bidding's now ended, and it went for £1400 if you believe that (no bidding history displayed).

www.ebay.co.uk/itm/162731955264?ul_noapp=true

In the massive sales blurb the vendor claimed to have found the backboard, but it is the original one and are the hinges intact ?

Looks intrinsically a nice table but will be keeping a lookout to see if it rebounds onto eBay !

[alanturner]

Nov 10, 2017 12:40:43 GMT tommo III said:

Well, bidding's now ended, and it went for £1400 if you believe that (no bidding history displayed).

www.ebay.co.uk/itm/162731955264?ul_noapp=true

In the massive sales blurb the vendor claimed to have found the backboard, but it is the original one and are the hinges intact ?

Looks intrinsically a nice table but will be keeping a lookout to see if it rebounds onto eBay !

£1400.00.....................Did he let you know that ?

Nov 10, 2017 13:04:57 GMT alanturner said:

£1400.00.....................Did he let you know that ?

It's what my eMail alert told me:

Bar billiard table 1... sold for £1,400.00, but there's more! 😊
10/11/2017 - 11:31

But every time I view the finished listing it reads something different (now £1700) !

Sometimes the rules of eBay are found wanting. A favourite ploy in the past (when I tracked eBay movements for five whole years) would be for a table to be withdrawn just prior to the finish with the note "item no longer available". (This being when the vendor was scared it would go too cheaply: All that was needed in such a case was to specify a reserve amount.)

Could this be from the same seller in Chichester area ?
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sams-Solid-Mahogany-Bar-Billiard-Table-Slate-fully-working-timer-order-now/112647720320?hash=item1a3a53cd80:g:864AAOSwLYBaEajn

Also overpriced, being a narrow table.

[dillon]

Guess what? The SAMS on ebay also has a Jelkes in light oak for sale!

Unmasked !
www.isaacs-snooker-billiards.com/table-info

[joiner88]

Nov 20, 2017 12:59:58 GMT tommo III said:

Unmasked !
www.isaacs-snooker-billiards.com/table-info

Well done Tommo, or should that be Clouseau. Bet he wants £2000 plus if you buy from his shop

Perhaps he sees a gap in the market by starting up here in Sussex where we have ten Leagues.

But any league player who had his/her sights set on a table for home use would either try for a bargain on eBay - or if they wanted a guarantee on quality they would probably go to the Sussex table operator (last one in the UK specialising in bar billiards table hire) Tarratts:
www.tarratttables.co.uk/
(Click on Home Use Tables, you will see that he offers them for £850 including accessories)

Paying £1000 for a table for private use risks disappointment - many have spent this much on a modern Supreme table (with 50% Pool table in its DNA) and a year or two later they pop up on eBay for £500.