Important HDBBL AGM

[iang]

The date for this years AGM has been changed from the 12th June to the week before on the 5th June at 8.30 in the Gordon Luff room at Roffey Sports & Social Club. Following our rules any Rule change proposals need to be with me by the 22nd of May.

I will remind you ALL again before the day but it would be nice if we had a representative from each team.

[JT]

Hi Everybody

Again, I would like to propose that HBBL follow BHBBL and other Sussex Leagues and have a Player Short rule

The important thing to remember about this rule is that it keeps teams going, in the past four years it has helped Alfold SC, The Three Compasses and Stout House A.


BHBBL PLAYER SHORT RULE

To give a fifth player a chance to arrive the first four games are to be played normally. If after the first four games have been played and a team is still a player short, the opposing captain draws one of the four players to play a second time. The result of this game ill count for the team result, the fifth player’s individual record, but not the player’s individual record that is playing for the second time

In BHBBL, This rule can only be used a maximum of eight times a season, and once a player has played the extra game, he cannot be drawn as the extra player until the other players have taken their turn

If it is a league match, and it is the away player that is a player short, that player does not have the break, giving it to the home player. After the opening break the rest of the game is played normally. If it is the home team that is a player short, the game is played normally

If it is a Team Cup match, the opposing player has the opening break, but there is no even break

If both teams are a “Player Short” then that game is declared a draw


Although there are problems with this rule, I do not think that any team is mis-using it intentionally

The first problem with this rule is that sometimes a player takes his turn, when he has already done so in a previous match. These are honest mistakes, usually by teams that have to use this rule infrequently. I send them an E-Mail saying who has already taken their turn, and who should take their turn on future occasions


Maybe this rule should be amended, either to increase the number of times used, or to add the proviso of getting the opposing Captain’s permission for the extra times

What this rule cannot take into account, is the ability of the player playing for the second time, a good player should win whether he has the break or not. Personally I believe that there should also be a penalty for a home player, maybe he should win by a higher margin, say 25%. If the away player scores 1,000, the home Player Short player has to score 1,250, 2,000 has to score 2,500, 3,000 has to score 3,750 etc etc

Best Wishes

JT

LOL,
You stand a better chance of getting that through this year John without me in the Chair !

[iang]

We have received 4 sensible rule changes/amendments so far.

This is a reminder that you have until the 22nd to get any others in.


Ian. 

Feedback from the proceedings.......
AGM reasonably well attended, and discussions went on until 10.30pm (longer than usual)

• Accounts adopted, Registration Fees will stay at £50 per team
• 4-player rule introduced
• Permissible length of table time specified (pending anticipated ruling by SCBBA)
• High break/score regulated: playing a certain percentage of league games now a requirement

* Don't shoot the messenger !*

Stephen Hopkins takes over as Competitions Secretary, and Ben Procter as Interleague Captain.
Best wishes to both as they take on these roles.

Jun 7, 2018 8:14:05 GMT tommo III said:

Feedback from the proceedings.......(extract)

Permissible length of table time specified (pending anticipated ruling by SCBBA)

Coming up for discussion at the SCBBA AGM this Tuesday:
(extract):

Jul 30, 2018 12:28:18 GMT JB said:

The following rule change proposals have been received and will be discussed at the AGM on Tuesday 7th August 2018 @ County Oak

1. New rule
The minimum time for all games shall be 16 minutes and the maximum time 20 minutes
If the bar should drop before 16 minutes another coin shall be inserted and play continue to 18 minutes. If the bar has not dropped at 20 minutes the scorer shall call bar down and play continues as if the bar has dropped.
If before the match has started there is a known problem with the clock both Captains should agree a time to play to.

Proposed: Jean Brackenridge
Seconded: Nigel Senior
Reason: This is not covered under AEBBA Playing Conditions or Rules Of Play

Just to point out, as a guide, that AEBBA have recently published an up-to-date set of Rules on their website, and do have this covered - in a way - by means of their Playing Rule 37).

37) Table time at County and Individual Group Play-offs and Finals will be a minimum 15 minutes and a maximum 20 minutes. If the table runs for less than 15 minutes the bar will be pulled again and play will continue until 15 minutes, at which point any balls going into holes will be retained as if the bar had dropped. If the bar has not dropped by 20 minutes any balls returning to the trap will be retained by the scorer as if the bar has dropped.

The sphere of influence beyond AEBBA own-run competitions could be argued, of course.

[JB]

Rule 37 is under the inter county and team ko comps

As SCBBA have their own comp rules i feel their should be a rule under general rules of play for Sussex. The SCBBA rules relate to AEBBA for conditions and general rules where timing is not covered.

[iang]

Am I right in thinking that Sussex had a rule wording to cover the timing of games & it was removed, saying follow AEBBA.

Horsham in turn say they follow SCBBA Rules but as there wasn't a wording to cover this topic it was voted in at the AGM Likewise Mid Sussex followed suit as I Proposed it.
It was felt in both Leagues that there should be clarity on what to do if the clock runs short or long.

The wording for Horsham is 
23) The Away Captain may satisfy himself on the level of the table. The balls are to be left in the tray and the Away Captain may make trial shots to the top of the table without using the side cushions or striking another ball. The duration of the games should be between 15 and 20 minutes; If the bar drops in less than 15 minutes play stops immediately and a coin may be inserted and the bar can be pulled again and play will continue until 17 minutes, at which point any balls going into holes will be retained as if the bar had dropped. If the bar has not dropped by 20 minutes any balls returning to the trap will be retained by the scorer as if the bar has dropped.

So the difference is 15mins & 16 mins
17 mins & 18 mins.
The wording of the times was discussed during the AGM and agreed & voted on.
The principle is the same & gives Captains & Players a clear definition of what to do rather than an individual's idea of what should happen.

I also strongly feel that the wording "if the bar drops in less than 15 minutes play stops immediately and a coin may be inserted and the bar can be pulled again" is important otherwise you have a situation where players continue to play whilst arguing the toss about what to do depending if they are winning or losing.



 

As Ian hints, having already held our league's AGM, the danger is that we will finish up with three conflicting rules on timing....
And failing to follow the principles of standardisation has led to difficulties in the past, with players not knowing which directive to follow.

Horsham and Mid-Sussex leagues are both aware of this and have already expressed their intention to fall into line with Sussex with whatever rule is passed at their AGM on Tuesday.

[Sparky]

Aug 4, 2018 15:37:57 GMT tommo III said:

As Ian hints, having already held our leagues AGM, the likelihood is that we will finish up with three conflicting rules on timing..
Failing to follow the principles of standardisation has led to difficulties in the past.

Tommo, the reason for Horsham in creating their rule was because there was no clear AEBBA or SCBBA rule known to us when these were passed at the AGM. This can be removed or modified at the next AGM as becomes clear at that point. The SCBBA has a rule 'proposal' that has not yet been voted on and therefore may be passed as is, or amended, or rejected.

There is no vast difference in the ethos of the 'probable' three rules and do not see a problem for the coming season especially as the Horsham players have a clear definition that takes precedence for Horsham League or Competition games, so perhaps you would like to contact me directly, rather than posting on the Forum, and state what you consider should be done by the Horsham Committee.

Edit: I see you have edited your post Tommo :)

Aug 4, 2018 16:23:38 GMT Sparky said:

There is no vast difference in the ethos of the 'probable' three rules and do not see a problem for the coming season especially as the Horsham players have a clear definition that takes precedence for Horsham League or Competition games, so perhaps you would like to contact me directly, rather than posting on the Forum, and state what you consider should be done by the Horsham Committee.

Methinks you misread my motives.......I do not wish to escalate a situation for which no problem really exists. I have merely tried to draw attention to the fact that AEBBA have at last put their ar$es in gear and published their up-to-date set of rules - with impeccable timing, IMHO.

[Sparky]

SCBBA have tried to follow the AEBBA rules, which have not been kept up-to-date for all to see, and it looks to me that SCBBA and Horsham and Mid-Sussex gave up waiting and have tried to fill the gap.

Do you know if the AEBBA set of rules on this Forum are the correct ones BTW ? as they appear to be 2103 AGM dated apart from the 4 Pin section !

Aug 4, 2018 16:43:27 GMT Sparky said:

SCBBA have tried to follow the AEBBA rules, which have not been kept up-to-date for all to see, and it looks to me that SCBBA and Horsham and Mid-Sussex gave up waiting and have tried to fill the gap.

Absolutely !

Aug 4, 2018 16:43:27 GMT Sparky said:

Do you know if the AEBBA set of rules on this Forum are the correct ones BTW ? as they appear to be 2103 AGM dated apart from the 4 Pin section !

Updated AEBBA rules here, on their website:
aebba.co.uk/rules-2