Jamaica (is) Inn

[taffy]

It appears the jamaicans have quite a a passion for 4-pin. Having read the bar Billiards Ltd history of Sams Bros, I checked out Jamaica and came up with a couple of articles and a supplier for pool but i can't get a reply from any of the sports bars, well anyone actually!

there is a phone number for an unsuspecting (i suggest) tournament organiser and that is it! Sams tables. 4-pin.



and another here, theres a twice over 200 that is a bit special!!



here's a link to a competition they were putting on. 4-pin.
from the local paper - The Jamaican Observer

it's all knackered by the fact that the Jamaican's name the game 'skittles' but unfortunately, the British had a TV advert where a Jamaican milked a Giraffe for Skittles and it has wrecked all my search efforts. What was the Giraffe doing in the Windies anyway?

Union Jack in the corner.

I started out by looking for a table repairer somewhere out there and all I got were these guys who again; don't reply!
www.facebook.com/allbrandsbilliards/

anyone add to this?

having just watched Idris Elba's 'Yardy Boys' a few weeks back I'd play with both eyes out the back of my head!

cheers

Taffy

A good find Taffy, but the footage spoiled somewhat by too much focus on the "money shot" (200).

We were aware that the game was played in Jamaica, the film "The Harder They Come" had a scene showing Jimmy Cliff playing bar billiards.

Hadn't realised that their game was 4-Pin, though.

Address of the venue incidentally is:

Hotshots Sports Bar, 120A Constant Spring Road (Mary Brown’s Corner), Kingston, Jamaica.

[taffy]

I've now found a facebook page and messaged skittles - obviously a fan. the official site says that there are 12 teams on the island.

JA skittle federation. JA= Jamaica?

cheers

Taffy

This is serious stuff !

www.jamaicaobserver.com/sport/Lyew-exits-Sista-Singles-Skittles-Championships_13833547

$60,000 for the winner of the Sista Singles trophy and $40,000 for the runner-up.

If only we had such sponsorship in the 3-Pin world !

[bobhall]

Nov 20, 2018 23:53:51 GMT tommo III said:

This is serious stuff !

www.jamaicaobserver.com/sport/Lyew-exits-Sista-Singles-Skittles-Championships_13833547

$60,000 for the winner of the Sista Singles trophy and $40,000 for the runner-up.

If only we had such sponsorship in the 3-Pin world !

A nice cheeky £375 for a silly 4 pin game lol

[taffy]

that's still 700% more than I took for my "silly" little game!

watched 'the harder they come' with Jimmy Cliff tonight and viewed two scenes where they were playing outdoor (yes really!) BB. Sams 4-pin with skittles.

I love their enthusiasm! the stuffy old English hey!!!!

Taffy

[gandalf the untidy]

Nov 21, 2018 0:59:08 GMT taffy said:

that's still 700% more than I took for my "silly" little game!

watched 'the harder they come' with Jimmy Cliff tonight and viewed two scenes where they were playing outdoor (yes really!) BB. Sams 4-pin with skittles.

I love their enthusiasm! the stuffy old English hey!!!!

Taffy

looks like my next mini break will be in Jamaica

[alanturner]

Nov 21, 2018 0:59:08 GMT taffy said:

that's still 700% more than I took for my "silly" little game!

watched 'the harder they come' with Jimmy Cliff tonight and viewed two scenes where they were playing outdoor (yes really!) BB. Sams 4-pin with skittles.

I love their enthusiasm! the stuffy old English hey!!!!

Taffy

You are here: Home / Company Histories / SamsBros.

E.A. Clare Son LtdThos. Padmore & SonsThurston & CoPeradonJ. Ashcroft & CoE.J. RileyBurroughes & WattsCox & YemanGeo. Wright & Co.Raper & SonsBar Billiards Ltd.SamsBros.Orme & Sons Ltd.Jelks

SamsBros.

SamsBros . Its part in the Bar Billiard story



Early Sams Table



an early Sams Table



Whilst trying to research the history of Bar Billiards and its origins three U.K. business names come to the fore. Bar Billiards Ltd, Jelks and Sams Bros. These three business are the names originally associated with the introduction of the game of Bar Billiards into the U.K. Both Jelks and Bar billiards Ltd. have been covered in other articles but Sams story has not.



Sams _Atlas _Factory _R



Sams-Atlas factory at Hoddesdon - 1980



Interestingly both Sams Bros. & Bar Billiards Ltd. claim to have been the first to introduce Bar Billiards to the U.K., with similar stories of seeing the tables in Northern Europe. Sams didn't call their tables Bar Billiards until (perhaps) the name became associated to the the game. There was always an argument between Sams & Bar Billiards as to who introduced the game to the U.K.!! Other companies used other names such as Snookerette and Russian Billiards.



Pictures in the Sams Bros 1935 catalogue show that they offered a range of tables that we would recognise as Bar Billiard tables.



SAMs Bros catalogue 1935



1935 Sams Bros catalogue



Bar Billiards sams Bros







During the research into the game Peter Clare was introduced to Denis Brisley, who had joined Sams Bros.in 1967 as Sales Manager later becoming its Managing Director . After leaving Grays in 1983 Dennis stayed in the industry first with Playday then with Sussex Bar Billiards before finished his career at Bar Billiards Ltd. in 2005. So Dennis was able to provide some interesting information about bar billiards and especially some history of Sams Bros. which had been published in a U.K. Sports Magazine in May 1980.A period when small snooker tables sales were booming. The basics of that article follows with additional information that Dennis has passed on.



Ron Sams & Dennis Briesley



The original Sams Bros Ltd. was founded by two brothers in 1919. The trade name SAMBROS was registered in 1948. By 1980 Sams was part of the Grays empire and was run by Dennis Briesley, Managing Director, and Ron Sams, son of one of the original founders and consultant to the business.



Initially the company manufactured just tennis, badminton and squash raquets and only started to make billiard/snooker tables , the product they are so well know for, later in the company's history. Ron Sams also ran J. B. Halley & Co. Ltd. that specialised in Golf equipment.







Grays took over Sams Brothers in 1969. At that time Sams had themselves been negotiating to take over a company - Atlas Ltd., a company which specialised in minature billiard/snooker tables. A year after Grays had bought Sams they took over Atlas and amalgamated the two companies to form Sams-Atlas Ltd.



During its history Sams has produced a wide range of product lines associated with sport and leisure. Other ventures the company has been involved with, before being taken over, were bar billiard table manufacturing plant in Jamaica.



Dennis was able to tell us that the factory in Jamaica was set up in the late 1950's and assembled over 2000 bar billiard tables and over 1000 bar billiard tables were exported from their U.K. Factory.



Apart from their main product line of miniature billiard/snooker tables Sams-Atlas also make miniature pool tables and bar billiards tables, the latter mostly for pubs and clubs. They also operate a renovation service for bar billiard tables and often get tables back that they made more than 30 years ago.



Dennis was also able to advise that Sams ran a operating division supplying bar billiard tables to sites on a shared basis. These tables were the 'league' tables and were the wider models.



Also in the article it mention that up to the late 1970s Sams -Atlas made all their own Billiard/Snooker balls. This side of the business had been part of Atlas but accoriding to the article it was the cost of the raw material, which was in rod form, andso resulted in a large amount of wastage that resulted in this part of the manufacturing business coming to an end.

If we're researching the history of manufacture of the various table types, there are loads of useful threads and links to be found on this board:

barbilliards.proboards.com/board/58/tables-ancestry-history

Yes, we are aware that tables in their hundreds, maybe thousands, were exported during the 1980's but - considering their apparent invisibility now - can only assume that most went to private residences for their merit as pieces of smart furniture. Only other explanation would be some tragic event that was hushed up: maybe they're in Davy Jones's Locker ?

[alanturner]

Nov 21, 2018 0:59:08 GMT taffy said:

that's still 700% more than I took for my "silly" little game!

watched 'the harder they come' with Jimmy Cliff tonight and viewed two scenes where they were playing outdoor (yes really!) BB. Sams 4-pin with skittles.

I love their enthusiasm! the stuffy old English hey!!!!

Taffy

Have you noticed how far the skittles are from the edge of the hole !!

Spinning / rimming balls miss them easily.

[taffy]

4-pin such an international game!

different continent

different language

different culture

we're bigger than we thought Chris! life does go on past Bulmer!!!!!

Taffy

Can't say that I was impressed by the quality of play in the footage of the Sistas Singles, many outcomes seemed to depend on the last ball 200. And scores not too good.

By contrast, the videos of Slovakian bar billiards (put up by member Azuritko) were full of 'exciting' and skilful shots - but unfortunately these have now disappeared from YouTube.

[taffy]

Nov 22, 2018 11:38:54 GMT taffy said:

different language

More on Jamaican 4-Pin (aka Skittles):

Winston Lyew wins Skittles championship

Winston 'Wimpy' Lyew from Eastern All-Stars won the Wray & Nephew/Jamaica Skittles Federation singles championship for the second time in four years last Sunday when he clipped former champion and teammate Keith Barrett 4-3 in the best of seven final at Bourbon House, 133 Windward Road.

In an epic final which saw both players giving their all to be locked 3-3 going into the seventh and final game, Lyew, who was meeting his old rival for the third time in a final in the last 25 years, looked the more focused in the decider and, after racing into a clear lead, beat his opponent 2180-0640.

He thus won the Wray and Nephew championship trophy and first prize of $40,000, while Barrett received $20,000 for second.

Lyew advanced to the final after putting away the veteran Errol Wright, while Barrett followed suit by dispatching former champion Carlton Blake of Mystix in the semis.

In the third place play-off, the veteran Errol Wright from Rowe's Strikers stopped Blake 4-1.

The competition attracted 50 players, including two females in Rosie Hill and Paulette Barrett. Barrett created an upset in the second round by beating the veteran Winston Jordon of Eastern All-Stars.

Defending champion Dane Jones of Eagles Strikers was knocked out in the early stages of the competition.

These reports, from the Jamaica Gleaner are five years old, but we are assured the Jamaica Skittle Federation is still going......

The prize money sounds fantastic, but as our members above have intimated, 40,000 Jamaican Dollars equals around £228.

[jelly]

I have been in touch and met up up with Richard Cox, who was the Jamaican skittles singles champion in 1981. He's been living over here for some time and is going to join my team in the Redhill league. I had a game with him. Their rules of skittles is very similar rules to the 'proper' 4 pin played on narrow tables. He had plenty of shots to show me, in his first attempt at the game of 3 pin he went off with 1800 including getting the break and one up successfully several times in a row. He is keen to get involved and wants to beat the best players in the country, well he will have a chance as he is coming up to the bucks open tomorrow after a last minute dropout!

[taffy]

Aug 3, 2019 12:54:59 GMT jelly said:

I have been in touch and met up up with Richard Cox, who was the Jamaican skittles singles champion in 1981. He's been living over here for some time and is going to join my team in the Redhill league. I had a game with him. Their rules of skittles is very similar rules to the 'proper' 4 pin played on narrow tables. He had plenty of shots to show me, in his first attempt at the game of 3 pin he went off with 1800 including getting the break and one up successfully several times in a row. He is keen to get involved and wants to beat the best players in the country, well he will have a chance as he is coming up to the bucks open tomorrow after a last minute dropout!

How is Richard getting on Jelly?

does he have any contact with the ols game back in Jamaica? I keep trying to find a contact down there if you can help me?

taffy

[jelly]

Richard told me that the Jamaican skittles federation is no more, having been disbanded due to decline in the game. He says there are still teams around in a few bars and clubs. I'm sure he will be on here and might be able to share details at some point. Failing that, he is interested in coming to the EA open next year

[taffy]

yes, we'll see him there. Don't let Dave know - he'll be calling it the world championships before you can shout 'Toots & Maytals'!!!!!

I did read in 2013 that there were just 11 teams. if you watch those two videos on youtube, they had a tournament sponsored and were hoping to do BIG things with the game.....

what a sad fall from grace!

Taffy

[gandalf the untidy]

Aug 27, 2019 16:46:57 GMT jelly said:

Richard told me that the Jamaican skittles federation is no more, having been disbanded due to decline in the game. He says there are still teams around in a few bars and clubs. I'm sure he will be on here and might be able to share details at some point. Failing that, he is interested in coming to the EA open next year

love to have a chat with richard about where the tables are, i'm sure i could give them a good game especially on wide tables