Ball stopping near the D

[jelly]

I think this might have be discussed but I can't find it anywhere. Supposing a ball comes back towards the baulk area and stops just before the D, so it does not overhang the D but is as close as possible. It is not obstructing the D under rule 110d, however the player taking the next shot is unable to place a ball freely within the D, in fact it can be the case that the ball could only be placed in the corner of the D and make it almost impossible to play a legal shot.

I don't believe the rules cater for this, we had this happen in a match a while back and there was disagreement about whether the ball closest to the D should remain where it is or be returned to the tray without penalty.

One side argued that they should be able to place a ball wherever there want to on the D and if there are balls preventing it then they should be returned. The other side argued that because the ball was not obstructing the D according to the official definition that it should be left and the player should play the next shot from there, even though they would be constrained to playing from corner of the D.

Is there an official rule for this?

[JB]

This is the all England rule

d) Any ball obstructing or hitting the "D". A ball shall be deemed to be obstructing the "D" if, when viewed from directly above, it obscures any part of the "D". The ball should be returned to the rack.

Unfortunately if it’s not overhanging the D it can make it a difficult shot for the next player but it’s not a foul shot. Same as when a ball is right by the baulk line but not overhanging it

[jelly]

Nov 23, 2018 11:08:14 GMT JB said:

This is the all England rule

d) Any ball obstructing or hitting the "D". A ball shall be deemed to be obstructing the "D" if, when viewed from directly above, it obscures any part of the "D". The ball should be returned to the rack.

Yes, I am referring to a ball which is not obscuring any part of the D viewed from above, but is just next to the D, so that it hampers the next ball being placed freely in the D

[JB]

I agree with you. A player should be able to place the ball anywhere on the D.

We did have this once in a match and the ball was returned as they couldnt put the ball where they wanted on the D but can’t see a rule to cover this

[curtd]

I believe rule 117 covers this

If a ball obstructs the placing of a ball anywhere in the D, but no foul shot has been played, it will remain there, but will be removed to the trap at the end of the current break.

[jelly]

Nov 23, 2018 11:18:17 GMT curtd said:

I believe rule 117 covers this

If a ball obstructs the placing of a ball anywhere in the D, but no foul shot has been played, it will remain there, but will be removed to the trap at the end of the current break.

Oh yes, it does. I had not seen that rule. Thanks for pointing it out!

[BigPhilMac]

Nov 23, 2018 11:18:17 GMT curtd said:

I believe rule 117 covers this

If a ball obstructs the placing of a ball anywhere in the D, but no foul shot has been played, it will remain there, but will be removed to the trap at the end of the current break.

I'm curious now! In this context what is being defined as a foul shot being played or not played?

[jelly]

Nov 23, 2018 14:14:43 GMT BigPhilMac said:

Nov 23, 2018 11:18:17 GMT curtd said:

I believe rule 117 covers this

If a ball obstructs the placing of a ball anywhere in the D, but no foul shot has been played, it will remain there, but will be removed to the trap at the end of the current break.

I'm curious now! In this context what is being defined as a foul shot being played or not played?

Its just referring to whether the ball ends up overlapping the D (foul shot as per 110d) or not overlapping the D but obstructing the free placement of a ball in the D (no foul, returned to tray at end of break)

[jelly]

Although you could get really pedantic and say that if an unrelated foul happened (white peg) and the ball ended up here then rule 117 somehow does not apply. I don't think that's what is intended though.

[taffy]

if you are in the middle of the break and you do it to yourself. the ball stays there and the cue ball must be anywhere in the D other than touching that ball. you play on. you can avoid it and hit a third ball, eventually, break over, the ball returns to the tray for the next player along.

in other words, yes you are restricted, but you did it to yourself!

Taffy