taffy
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Post by taffy on Dec 24, 2018 14:59:18 GMT
We are proud of our open and its rules and hopefully in 2020 we will be recognised as the world four pin championship then you need to make better contact than i have with our Jamaican friends! I've tried everything! cheers Taffy
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Post by Chris_Sav on Dec 24, 2018 15:04:37 GMT
We are proud of our open and its rules and hopefully in 2020 we will be recognised as the world four pin championship then you need to make better contact than i have with our Jamaican friends! I've tried everything! cheers Taffy Buffalo Soldiers??
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Post by daveuk1 on Dec 24, 2018 16:20:01 GMT
Taffy I've emailed and invited them and had a nice reply
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taffy
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Post by taffy on Dec 28, 2018 11:08:40 GMT
How much money have they got Dave? nothing! if you ever get serious, WE should be going there first and then working out how to sponsor their best player to come up here. infact, we pay to go down there on tour for a week and they raise money from it to send someone up!
Taffy
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2018 11:54:00 GMT
Why pick on Jamaica, Taffy ? They also play 4-Pin in New Zealand you know.
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taffy
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Posts: 514
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Post by taffy on Dec 28, 2018 16:48:37 GMT
well I can see the rules but they have the 30 and 10 the wrong way around which automatically disqualifies them!!!!!! also the guy at the front has since been done for wearing a loud shirt in a built up area.
my case rests your 'onour!!!!
Taffy
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2018 18:18:22 GMT
Also their (N.Z.) rules state you have to go for the 200 hole for the last shot (if one ball left) - doubly disqualified in your book ?
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Post by chrishaynes (R.I.P.) on Dec 28, 2018 23:18:48 GMT
Who cares what rules,I'll be at sudbury(open,or world rules) its a great weekend with great people!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2018 23:42:29 GMT
Not the issue Chris ! Unfortunately we've been taken off topic and seem to be discussing the ramifications of whether there would be justifiction in calling the E.Anglia the World Championships for Four-Pin w.e.f the year after next (2020).
The absence of entrants from outside the British Isles hasn't damaged the authenticity of Jersey's equivalent for the 3-Pin - so why not ? No need to try to court Windies participants - or Enzedders for that matter.
With the event run by Northants now being a recognised AEBBA event, the E.Anglian could do with some increased status recognition, especially as it on a larger scale with talk even of eventually spreading it over two days.
I would suggest they follow the Jersey path and call it the British to begin with as a stepping stone.
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Post by Q on Dec 29, 2018 12:26:43 GMT
Also their (N.Z.) rules state you have to go for the 200 hole for the last shot (if one ball left) - doubly disqualified in your book ? Short clock as well!!
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taffy
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Posts: 514
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Post by taffy on Dec 31, 2018 15:01:07 GMT
one thing at a time, i hope the Sudbury boys agree! whatever else the current formula works. but for sure, next year it'll end up like concert tickets and the date that the entries are open will be announced (8am on a Sunday is a good time) and be filled in 2-3 days. I think that this tournament has to decide on the first thing that sends anything backwards; "two days". it'll go backwards straight away....has too. so the next thing is one day still and pre-qualifying which will up the standard of the 64 straight away.
that's the way i'd go? the sudbury players will then say why should we qualify for our suffolk percentage of say 50% TOPS WHEN AN EX-Newmarket player can breeze the entry? and that as they say is "when it all started....."!
I hope the committee will give points for each round we have got to and allow automatic qualification (thus entry) for those that have done well and then have pre-qualifying for all others in different locations. keep it to one day. call it the UK Open and still have the current EA open which will attract less entries on another date. dillution in this case works!
If I can get this cambridgeshire league going we would expect i suggest an allocation of 4 places and then we would have our own competition for those 4 places. let the cream rise to the top as they say.
taffy
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2018 16:04:15 GMT
Pre-qualifying ... nope, bad idea: It's an Open. Name me another Open which has pre-qualifying.
The two day idea. Only once it's become billed as the World Four-Pin.
Copy Guernsey: Doubles on the Saturday, Singles on the Sunday. Players have the choice to enter one - or the other - going up for one day - or both, involving a stop-over.
How would this work (you may ask) if there were, say, 80 in the Singles ? Well, one round of games could start late on the Saturday - involving only players who were already there taking part in the Doubles.
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taffy
Distinguished Member
Posts: 514
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Post by taffy on Dec 31, 2018 17:37:02 GMT
well we'll agree to differ over the pre-qualifying.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2018 18:32:19 GMT
it'll go backwards straight away....has too. so the next thing is one day still and pre-qualifying which will up the standard of the 64 straight away. Herein lies the danger: making 4-Pin too intense and serious will become a turn off for many people. Let's keep it as fascinating and enjoyable as it is at the moment, with equal opportunities for all !
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Post by davejones on Dec 31, 2018 22:37:59 GMT
one thing at a time, i hope the Sudbury boys agree! whatever else the current formula works. but for sure, next year it'll end up like concert tickets and the date that the entries are open will be announced (8am on a Sunday is a good time) and be filled in 2-3 days. I think that this tournament has to decide on the first thing that sends anything backwards; "two days". it'll go backwards straight away....has too. so the next thing is one day still and pre-qualifying which will up the standard of the 64 straight away. that's the way i'd go? the sudbury players will then say why should we qualify for our suffolk percentage of say 50% TOPS WHEN AN EX-Newmarket player can breeze the entry? and that as they say is "when it all started....."! I hope the committee will give points for each round we have got to and allow automatic qualification (thus entry) for those that have done well and then have pre-qualifying for all others in different locations. keep it to one day. call it the UK Open and still have the current EA open which will attract less entries on another date. dillution in this case works! If I can get this cambridgeshire league going we would expect i suggest an allocation of 4 places and then we would have our own competition for those 4 places. let the cream rise to the top as they say. taffy Personally speaking although I have never played in this competition. But, maybe one day it will happen. I think the pre-qualifying tournament is a bad idea. You have a lot of players travelling great distances at a cost and staying overnight or two. How can you say to them sorry you haven't qualified. It is a long way to go for just a pre-qualifying tournament. You will certainly lose them the next year!
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taffy
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Posts: 514
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Post by taffy on Jan 1, 2019 10:33:53 GMT
Hi Dave
I never meant it like that fella!
reference the Cambridgeshire comment above. I'd expect us to hold a competition locally in Cambs to get down from say 16 to 4 and then go to Sudbury for a one day competition very much like it is now. So that way they qualify nearer "at home".
I think Tommo and i will have to disagree. If something good is over subscribed then you have to bring the numbers down to a managable number either at the event (2 days) or, with pre-qualifying in regions. I can't see how you can try and create a 'nice' atmosphere when something is at the same time billed upwards as the Uk or World. the two are at a juxtaposition.
that's why right now it is great. 64 places filled, (hardly) anyone turned away, an atmosphere created by people who usually don't care whether they win or lose and take the day as a pleasure but as usual, look out the corner of your eyes and top players (pacing up and down) aren't thinking that at all. One man will say that people aren't worried about the result and another man will say it lacks 'edge'.
we can say all this coz we are "in it", it isn't quite as funny for a local Sudbury league player who blinked and missed it with over 3 months to go!
you get 3-4 pissed people putting a flea-like in the Committee's conch-like over the next few weeks and it won't be so rosy. who is to say what the subscription would have been like on March 23rd if left open?
anyway, all good stuff. I've run and been in plenty of competitions in all different guises and the dilemma is well known. we used to go to 7s tournaments on the early May BH weekend and had strict orders to throw the first game, drop into the plate KO, get out with the other fatties, drink loads of beer and have a good time. Happy days!
Taffy
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2019 15:20:53 GMT
Just to retain a bit of perspective on this, Sussex proved that it is possible to run an Open over one day for 108 players. They did this in 2011 and 2013 and on both occasions a Plate competition was included.
Dave and I are probably in agreement that in this day and age it is paramount to cater for all those interested in taking part: You can't afford to turn anyone away.
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curtd
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Post by curtd on Jan 1, 2019 16:24:00 GMT
Hi
I personally don’t think having local qualifications is the way forward. This would mean the only players attending would be the top few in each area. This would mean lots of players not being able to attend what is a great day of billiards and missing out. IMHO the answer to having the awful problem of being over subscribed is to have a better schedule that allows for more players. I have never been able to work out the schedule that has been used for the last few years and I’m sure Nige would have one that would be suitable for more players with no extra work for the organisers. I guess someone just has to give Nige a ring and ask ?
Curt
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Post by bigtj on Jan 1, 2019 17:58:57 GMT
Along with others would not like to see qualifying competitions as I for one enter for the crack of the weekend and playing the narrow tables to play a different game.
Think if you want to cater for more players need to look at the formatting and maybe using more tables if feasible or extending to a weekend.
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Post by barbelman on Jan 2, 2019 10:49:13 GMT
Treat 'em mean, keep 'em keen. Leave it at 64 and then players compete for places on a FCFS basis.
Keep the concept pure otherwise you just end up with another tedious Open....
Tony
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2019 20:16:51 GMT
I will say that for 4-Pin the groups format gets the thumbs up from me. Sudbury's organisation employing this method has so far been impeccable.
And if it ever took off in a big way and the entry justified calling it the World, I would prefer it over two days, keeping the groups, rather than shoehorning it into one day with consequent loss of a section for the Plate - or the ditching of a group format making it as Tony says 'just another Open'.
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Post by daveuk1 on Jan 2, 2019 22:35:03 GMT
I really hope the real four pin open doesn't change the format from the groups to start with, it guarantees players a minimum of four games how ever bad they play.
Upping the numbers to 80 and having 5 per group is one option,top two of each group go into the main, third and fourth into the plate and the bottom player goes out, but I personally see the down fall being although they still get 4 games if they play in the first lot of groups the bottom player will be out by lunch time and they've travelled up with someone else who does better they could be sitting around from lunch time until the evening with nothing to look forward apart from the long drive home. Suffolk doesn't need extra entries to raise money to fund the open, it is totally self funding and raises money for charity on the day, so I agree with Mr. Barbelman. If the AEBBA agree to acknowledge the Specflue 4 pin open as either the British or World four pin championship then and only then should we be thinking of upping the number of entries
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Post by "Silent" on Jan 2, 2019 23:28:39 GMT
Treat 'em mean, keep 'em keen. Leave it at 64 and then players compete for places on a FCFS basis. Keep the concept pure otherwise you just end up with another tedious Open.... Tony I don't know why anyone bothers playing in them!!
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Post by barbelman on Jan 3, 2019 10:13:44 GMT
Treat 'em mean, keep 'em keen. Leave it at 64 and then players compete for places on a FCFS basis. Keep the concept pure otherwise you just end up with another tedious Open.... Tony I don't know why anyone bothers playing in them!! Just my opinion Matt and seemingly more and more people are agreeing with me, as the BB world gets more polarised.. As I now have no chance of doing well in an Open, for me it has to have a USP, an attraction for the cannon-fodder, and the 64 format used in the EA Open provides that. My statement was not meant to be turned into an insult to the players and organisers who still enjoy the traditional Opens... Tony
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Post by daveuk1 on Jan 5, 2019 18:54:38 GMT
Well it has to be said that the Specflue 4 pin open is certainly unique, it sold out three months in advance.
I can see where Taffy is coming from with all the places going so quickly, although I can quite liken us to a pop concert.
With more away players now comming down to make a weekend of it there is the possibility of an earlier start as some players will already be in the area and this coupled with more tables could mean more entry spaces. But I am sure Suffolk will want to stick with the group stages at the start of their tournament. An earlier start would therefore only work if the groups are still drawn at random but the groups containing the most local players or away players we know are already in town are moved to the first stage and we would be exceptionally lucky if we had 8 random groups all containing players who are already around.
There is of course another option and that is just to let everyone know the start time will be earlier before any entries are made. Personally my own feelings are expecting people to travel 3 hours to get to the venue for 10 o'clock-ish in the morning is bad enough, but people may disagree.
One thing is for certain, nothing will change for this years open as I understand the plan is to make the draw this Tuesday
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taffy
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Post by taffy on Jan 7, 2019 10:18:28 GMT
you can't call something the world championship unless people from everywhere are reached out to, to come and play? and if there are too many entrants then you have to pre-qualify for it. either that or it should be an open, nobody turned away and played over as many days as is needed to get the job done - ala darts or snooker.
but it seems to me that we should be spreading the game. we don't have anyone from Wellingborough, Norwich or Wisbech there so we haven't conquered East Anglia yet!
but then again, in Stock Car Racing they have titles for everything and nobody seems too bothered. I'm reminded of my Grandma's old saying; "empty vessels make the most noise, David". calling it a World Championship is vacuous.
let's have a programme for spreading the game. The Brook Inn has a shield that was played for till 20 years ago between all the 4-pin regions. Tommo could no doubt put the photo up here again to remind everyone. let's get THAT going first! work out a way of picking the best players in the Sudbury league and ask Gedney Hill (Wisbech), Norwich, Wellingborough and who ever to do the same. The pubs and game are dieing near Wellingborough I believe and Gedney Hill gets smaller. They could do with your help, Sudbury's help with you being prepared to travel to them and boosting their area.
it's competition and practice that puts money in the tables and keeps the pubs open and sometimes I think we forget it all too easily.
Maybe when things are going in Mid/South Cambridgeshire I can host this competition as we are slap bang in the middle of all the regions that play the game.
Taffy
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2019 11:58:57 GMT
Quote Hence my proposal, if Suffolk want it eventually to become the World, firstly bill it as the "British 4-Pin Open" by way of a stepping stone.
Quote Therein lies the problem. Their participation has to be courted, and this is only likely to happen with a big publicity drive. But it must come from you 4-Pin guys, not from AEBBA, as effectively you are now going it alone by supplying your own narrow tables. AEBBA can do no more than be supportive, running their own competition as an 'alternative rules' as well as taking part in yours. The leagues you've mentioned have as I see it been scared off by the intensity and competitiveness of the event, and whilst the "fun nature" part should be iterated, perhaps they could also be offered some incentives to have a go. Perhaps separate prizes for "furthest East Anglian player" and "highest score by an East Anglian player" as well as the same for "East Anglian Non-suffolk". This would be on a par with what Jersey offered in the early days of the British Isles Open for 3-Pin. Quote A very noble thought, Taffy, but be careful ! To start a rival Cambridgeshire would impinge on the 3-Pin County Association which has been struggling to stay afloat: Maybe resurrecting "Newmarket" might be a better idea, or even calling it "Newmarket and Soham".
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stevehale
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One day I will succeed - 26/3/22 I did!
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Post by stevehale on Jan 7, 2019 15:23:01 GMT
We did make contact with other leagues and had responses that some players were interested, the fact that it sold out so early is a shame as it means there is no space for anyone else. We have been proactive in trying to attract people from all leagues and will continue to do so. Even this year we have 8 1st time participants.
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taffy
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Post by taffy on Jan 7, 2019 17:24:50 GMT
Hi Tommo
I don't want to change or go off subject but just to nip things in the bud....
I'm supplying wide tables and to any pub that wants them any league will come at a later date. I have made contact with the Cambs man. he is not interested in anything I'm doing at this juncture. I'm not trying to convert any of his league pubs or indeed ex-league pubs.
part of growing the sport is 'giving' and at present its all Sudbury. hopefully they will feel more benevolent at some point.
today i was looking up all the tables that surround Hempstead in Essex and I was amazed how many pubs there are in that Suffolk/Essex area. enough to make a very good league rubbing right up to the Sudbury catchment area. and yet it has never happened?
cheers
Taffy
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2019 0:07:36 GMT
Quote: Yeah the point I was making really is that you need to form a League first, County comes later.
Quote: A good observation; there are several potental "hot spots" where enough tables exist to warrant the creation of leagues. Essex is one, Sevenoaks (Kent) another, Abingdon another and then there's the somewhat remote Devon.
It's a bit like how the universe behaves, stars (leagues) being formed out of nebulae (hotspot catchment areas). Examples being the recent creation of leagues in Norwich, York, Sheffield and Nottingham. And then other stars implode, leaving a black hole (examples Hertfordshire, Canterbury, Bristol and Hampshire excluding Pompey)
Tommo's big bang theory !
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