4 players and the draw

Oct 27, 2019 14:49:07 GMT iang said:

I do have a problem as Fixtures Secretary when you suggest giving a loss to a player from the team who is short who do you pick when some teams have more than 6 players signed up but still can't get 5 on the night. I can imagine the outcry. You can't give a loss to someone who hasn't played. So I would like to see different wording to your NNB line.

Yes Ian, I do not mind tweaking the suggested wording to make things absolutely watertight, and there is plenty of time to work on this once the principles have been agreed.

Just to clarify on your point, I was not suggesting a player is given a loss in all cases when a walkover is awarded against. Only when a player's name is actually on the card, and didn't turn up. Not for when only four names were submitted and the last game conceded.

Another point for consideration, and which I'd like to factor in, is that I feel that any player receiving a walkover should be present in the pub/club at the time the frame would otherwise have been played, in order to receive the walkover. (This to discourage player from making a rapid exit once they know they haven't got a game, or even being advised by phone to turn round and head for home when on their way to the pub !!!)

[Richard]

Oct 28, 2019 7:37:57 GMT Ros said:

Oct 27, 2019 21:07:47 GMT Richard said:

Yes Ros, I get your post.

To confirm my point why do you need to draw a blank to do this.

Quite simply the person who is last and does not have an opponent gets the win/walkover etc...,

Hopefully that clarifies it for you.

I have already explained why in my first post, so it's pointless to say any more. Your remedy is to put forward a rule at the next AGM.

You do not need to put a blank card in to give someone a walkover/win and not change their average, it is madness to suggest you do. You can still award a win and not effect the average using any format. Enough said.

[Richard]

Hi Tommo.

I get the point that the player needs to be there for the draw, however just say they are drawn last, they then get told they have a bye but have to then sit there and watch everyone else play a game.

I think they should be able to leave early if they wish.

Lots of people have to use their time wisely not all are at their time of life to have plenty of spare time.

.....but to be awarded a win when not even in attendance at the pub on the night ?  Now, that would be "madness" !

Suggest we all attend the AGM either as a united front if we can work together to agree on a wording, or you attend anyway if you wish to vote down what the rest of us come up with.

[Richard]

Tommo, you must have the wrong pair of glasses on.

I suggest you read my last post again, I certainly did not state they would not be in attendance on the night, I stated they should be able to leave early after the draw.

I was trying to work together by stating I do not feel the player who has the bye should have to stay all night.

However rather than take that into consideration you have come back with a completely pointless reply, stating I said something completely different.

Any rule will be better than no rule at least we then have something in writing.

Oct 28, 2019 16:29:09 GMT tommo III said:

Another point for consideration, and which I'd like to factor in, is that I feel that any player receiving a walkover should be present in the pub/club at the time the frame would otherwise have been played, in order to receive the walkover. (This to discourage player from making a rapid exit once they know they haven't got a game, or even being advised by phone to turn round and head for home when on their way to the pub !!!)

Richard,

Yes I do tend to don the rose-tinted specs on quite a lot. I was merely stressing the above point on which I am now obliged to elaborate by giving past examples (thus no doubt incurring the wrath of our great Leader Mr Saville who doesn't like me dwelling in the past.)

As you yourself say, two different factors:

Example 1. Horsham League (3 yrs ago ?): my team had 4 players and opponents (Stout House) would have had 5 if their player still to turn up arrived. I overheard their captain on the phone to him saying "mate, you've got the game, no need to turn up". I thought this a cheek and made my views known that no attendance, no walkover, so would they like to stick a registered reserve in if they had one ? Another phonecall, and the player on the road turned up. Walkover claimed, job done.

Example 2. Redhill League (2 weeks ago): me myself given a walkover on the card for the last game. We were 0-3 down and had lost the match anyway so I made my farewells and had an early night. *As it was Team Cup it didn't matter if I got given the walkover or not.* But if it had been a League match I would have stayed till the end as not only would have it have been rude not to do so, but I would not have been in attendance when due to play/claim the frame which would have been "madness".

[Ros]

Oct 28, 2019 18:56:12 GMT Richard said:

Oct 28, 2019 7:37:57 GMT Ros said:

I have already explained why in my first post, so it's pointless to say any more. Your remedy is to put forward a rule at the next AGM.

You do not need to put a blank card in to give someone a walkover/win and not change their average, it is madness to suggest you do. You can still award a win and not effect the average using any format. Enough said.

You clearly did not 'get' my post. The part in, and I stress again, BRACKETS, was merely an aside to reassure anyone getting a walkover (brackets again, by any means) would not have their average reduced by getting a walkover.

I don't see why you should be using that to argue your point, it's largely irrelevant, which was why it was in brackets!

[Richard]

At least we agree on something, although I would have left out the word largely.
The fact you have stated it has always (underlined) happened does not make it right, as it is not covered off in the rules which is my point.
I look forward to a rule being put in place to clarify it so people do not just carry on with their own method and pass it off as the current rule.

Well, Richard, over the years a sort of cameraderie has developed between the various captains, I don't know of a single unreasonable one at present.

There is quite often some sort of complication, Ted Stringer for example was very accomodating when I wasn't sure who my fifth player was going to be, and allowed a blank in the Draw (a couple of weeks ago). 

And one of my players has a wife who is seriously ill and he has been allowed to play early and leave early twice recently without any hassle from the opposition.

But yes, we all seem to accept that the procedure for the draw needs ratifying by means of something more explicit, and rest assured that something (hopefully acceptable to all parties) will be submitted when the time comes.

 

[bobhall]

Why are we still going back and forth on this it's now becoming a joke and you are all posting pointless posts just put a rule in to clear it up and that's all that is needed. Seriously guys and girls start acting a little more mature this thread needs to be closed now as it's gone on too far and nothing is constructive in peoples views at the moment

[barbelman]

Yeah, come on...let's talk about something else now... 
We hate locking threads but serious table tennis going on here.

[Richard]

I could not agree more !! get it locked

How on earth do the last three posts help, apart from getting people's backs up ?

[Chris_Sav]

Staff are agreed, enough of what allegedly happened in nineteen hundred and frozen to death as I requested a few days ago but have been ignored.


Use the thread if it helps you formulate a proposal for a future AGM.

One more ping pong post on justification and we'll have to lock it