Greetings and questions from the high mountains of Colorado

[chessking]

Hello all, New member here with limited experience with the game. I have been reading old posts for a while, but have only recently joined. My only exposure of Bar Billiards was from watching videos online, as there are no tables anywhere near me that I could find. So my solution was to make my own table from the limited info I could find. I wish I had found this forum back then, but that's how it goes.

My questions are:

    1. I have noticed that some tables are 10-20-30-20-10, and some are 30-20-10-20-30. As my homemade version is nearing completion, and I will need to decide what mine will be, what are the reasons for these two scoring systems. Which is favored, and does the pin placement change with the different system.

    2. Would my snooker cue with a narrow tip be proper for play or is there a preferred cue dimension/weight.

    3. Is there any english used during play? I could see some running or check on cushion shots, but with the gentle pace used I don't see stun or screw being of much use.

Any advice would be much appreciated, and as I am learning to play, this is all new to me. I have plenty of Snooker and English Billiard experience, but this game is a new challenge.

Thanks, Mark

[taffy]

Hello Mark

As you may note looking around this site, there are two versions of the game. 3-pin has the holes 30-20-10-20-30 while the 4-pin version has them scored as you say; 10-20-30-20-10. the other holes are the same.

Luckily the tables are easy enough to adapt between games. you need the 'spot' in slightly different places for the two versions. for 4-pin the dot must be halfway beween the back of the D (the straight edge and the leading edge of the 200 hole) this usually works out at about 225mm approx. for 3-pin it is a little nearer and must be 170-175mm from the back of the D.

You can mark the table for both forms of the game, you can use mushrooms or skittles which are also known as pins or pegs. Everyone has a preference but i would say using mushrooms that create a shadow over the 4 holes isn't a 'top idea'. My area always used skittles in 4-pin.

Americans use the term 'Body English' as we use the term 'body language' so you mean do we put 'top' or 'bottom' or 'side' on the ball? We sure do! but it is a 'touch' otherwise we're hitting the ball too hard. Only one shot as I know is played HARD in either form and that is to get a ball off the top cush with side so it comes back at the 100 hole where a ball awaits. Even then the object ball will have to be bang in the middle of the hole or it will rim and fly off. remember, while you're getting 10 points your buddy is sat ion the chair, your trying to get more points than him just like snooker and unlike pool.

what you'll find when you set the table up is that if the table is slightly uphill the 'oxford shot' for a 50-50 alters. uphill, and one ball goes in the 50 and the other can hit the peg (or come player side of the hole), downhill and one can go in and the other sails past the hole. with a trace of side, top or bottom you can correct this.

As for top, yes, as for bottom or as we would say; 'a deep screw back' well no because the object ball is going too fast. if the object ball is going into a pack then maybe yes but if you're playing with 7 balls on the table you aren't getting much else right anyway!

how you place your slate in the top frame will be critical. all the old tables from 70 years ago have 1/4" around the sides and you chock them in. I did one this morning that had the cenre back hole (the 30 on my 4-pin table) 10mm to the left of the middle line of the table until i chocked it in place symetrically.

as for cues, the best players use a long two-piece snooker cue which is naturally heavy because of this and has a narrower tip. I use a short light one piece cue that because I'm a big chap means I can do a softer touch on the airy-fairy stuff. But my long range shooting is improved with a longer cue. I'd like a very light long cue i guess. You see Bar Billiards longest shot is 120mm or 4'. for snooker it is triple that distance. I attach paperwork which is for 4-pin and makes it clear that at the beginning you don't want to be accurate (yes, you read that right). Then when you get better you start getting like Eddie Rickenbacker and not Frank Luke.....you wait, and you wait and then there it is, a reverse 100, a 50 off the side with the red then back to the bread and butter 10/20/30 till the next opportunity.

One thing to know is that when you watch those youtube videos is how GENTLE the top boys are otherwise the ball rims and flies off. In 4 pin it rims and takes out the pin. so it is a gentle game which takes some getting used to and is very un-American.

You'll like it because (and get this) you and your buddy stand at the back of the table 2 feet apart having a quiet chat, a whisper. there'll be no need to shout, no need to bawl over the bar music, just a great chat and swapping places.

There's no body language in BB, no swanker around the table, you just swop places and play.

regards

Taffy

Apologies for my diagram being different. Only at Newmarket is the cue ball the red, in both the 3 and 4-pin version, the cue ball is always the white. But if able to do 150 with the 'Oxford Shot' at the break our version nets 110 while the normal version nets 70.

[chessking]

Thanks Taffy, I appreciate all the info, and the many details, This is exactly what I needed. I am beginning to learn that this simple looking game is quite complex. Watching the top lads play, they make it look so easy. I seem to always end up with a crowd of balls at the top cushion. I need more table time I guess.Thanks again, Mark

[Chris_Sav]

Cue is a matter of personal preference, I use a full length cue which is 12oz, far from heavy!.

You need fast tighty stretched cloth on a table to give the balls a better chance of running and reaching a hole at a reasonably slow speed to score very heavily.

[tommo III]

Aug 7, 2021 17:24:58 GMT chessking said:

I seem to always end up with a crowd of balls at the top cushion. 

A quick fix for this might be to set your table to be slightly 'uphill'. The balls will then have a chance to bounce back off the top cushion and go in somewhere rather than accumulate there.

You may find that this makes the opening (break) shot more difficult, in which case impart some "left hand side" to the cue ball.

[chessking]

My home made table is finished and installed. The cloth is a bit slow, so that will probably be the first thing I replace. My home brewed timing mechanism lifts the bar with a pull of the knob and locks it in place for around 17 minutes before dropping. I can adjust the time a bit either way by a couple minutes by altering the linkage, but this setting seems right.

After a week of play, I am starting to get the feel of the gentle shots. It should be simple, yet surprisingly difficult. Damm those skittles!

Next, the scoreboard. I've been keeping score with a paper and pen.

I hope these pictures are not too big. I know that's a problem here. If so just delete them. I'm just happy to show off my table.

Cheers, Mark

Attachments:

[Chris_Sav]

I'm impressed, get the iron on the cloth and that will speed it up a bit.

Size of pictures is fine but they could be compressed, don't worry and thank you for making the effort.

How do you control the time on the timer please? Are the rings ones you have bought?

[chessking]

The timing mechanism is from an old wind up egg timer. I'm not even sure they make them anymore, what with all the cheap electronic versions available now. I simply took out the inner mechanism which is mounted inside of the
bell. I cut a hole in the mounting board that the bell fit tightly into
and mounted it vertically. It has a clockwork gearing system and a spiral spring. Its not a particularly strong spring, and it can't push much of a load, so the linkage needed to be light and loose, and I even had to weight the drop arm to make it work properly.

Now the timer is one full revolution for one hour time, therefore a 1/3 wind (approximately 120 degrees), in theory, should render 20 minutes. Digging through my sons old erector set, gave me the parts for the pivot arm and linkage. The length of that arm determines the travel distance needed to lift the bar. Also the slack left in either of the two chains (one on the pull knob, and one on the lifting pivot), can give you some fine adjustment. With this type of timer there is a bit of inaccuracy built in, so each game length is varied, but not by more than a minute or so.

One thing I have noticed is that it is quiet. Only if you put your ear to the table will you will hear a faint ticking, and you only know when the bar has dropped after the balls fail to return.

The rings, balls and cushion rubber were purchased from Masters of the Game. Everything else I had laying about my shop, or sourced locally. The skittles I turned on the lathe, with a bit of polished brazing rod as the cross member. I cut the holes to fit the rings, so they insert tight, without the need for any compound or plaster, or whatever you all use to tighten them.

One mistake I made is it is a bit short. I designed it to fit within the AEBBA rules, but failed to distinguish that what they call playing area did not include the baulk area. My playing area is up to standard, and my spots are where they should be, but without the extra 8 or 10 inches of baulk, you still stand where you would to shoot, but the ball return is further from your reach than it would be on a proper table. By the time I realized this, I was laying out the holes. Everything else had been built so it was too late. Still, its better than no table.

Mark

[taffy]

that's a beautiful piece of work!

I'd be tempted to cut out the front face of wood leaving about 5 mm of wood sticking up and the near-too cross wood, keep it high in the corners and low in the middle. possibly have a front shelf to rest a hand.

really nice job!

taffy