AEBBA Pairs Bournemouth Draw 2021

[bigjimsilverfox]

Oct 15, 2021 17:26:32 GMT Chris_Sav said:

Just heard from Dave L. far more important is there's no real ale at the hotel only fizzy rubbish.

Scrubbing around the idea of a boozy day out tomorrow with the Suffolk crew!

Just read that Chaplin's bar on Christchurch road has real ale

[JB]

Will never please everyone.
Let’s just hope that people appreciate the few people who have worked tirelessly to get this event to happen.

[Chris_Sav]

Any news on the first day's play please?

[BB Warrior]

Oct 17, 2021 8:22:38 GMT Chris_Sav said:

Any news on the first day's play please?

No real shocks from the first day, a couple of pairs that would probably have been expected to go through in the main ended up in the plate but apart from that everything much as you would have expected.

I am sure the organisers will provide a full update soon.

["Silent"]

Congratulations to Kevin Tunstall and Martin Cole who retained their title beating Mark Brewster and Curt Driver in the final
Jason Neal and Simon Coleman won the plate, well done to them. Allan Lacey and Phil Griffin were runners up
Further details to follow

[daveuk1]

Well thanks from all us Suffolk for a fun weekend and a very big pat on the back for Michelle and her crew for organising the event.

Yes there were some hiccups along the way, the hotel were obviously totally unprepared even though I am sure they were warned. The playing area was very compact, no ventilation, not very covid safe and infact unpleasantly hot at times.

I cant talk for anyone else but my room was very disappointing, not the cleanest and for a double room it was tiny.

The lack of real ale certainly put a big damper on the weekend with all the real pubs a good 15 to 20 min walk away meaning no time between games to pop out and have a proper beer and on the Sunday morning being told the bar wouldnt be open by the time the first set games were due to start was a big blow, couldnt even get a glass of coke.

But as I said, thanks to the organisers, they cant be blamed for the problems, the tournament itself ran like clockwork and im sure everyone enjoyed the playing side of things

[curtd]

Another great weekend of billiards in Bournemouth. Really pleased to have got to the final and many congratulations to Kev and Martin on retaining their title.
Well done also to Simon and Jason on winning the plate. Defo a weekend of two halves for them.

I thought the different format used this year worked and I would guess most had more playing time than they would normally get.

Thanks to those few that put in a massive effort to get this comp run and already looking forward to next March when we can do it all over again


Dave- I hope you brought up your room concerns with the hotel over the weekend and took time to fill out the feedback form.

Thanks

Curt

[JB]

Congratulations to all the winners and runners up.
Hope everyone had a good weekend and thanks to all those for all their hard work in getting this played this year.

Dave you booked a small double. These were classed as singles and priced accordingly.

[daveuk1]

Hey peeps
I did speak to the hotel about my room and did fill in a feed back form, it did seem strange that the others in our party who had booked singles actuallyhad a double and single bed in their rooms, so I guess the hotel dropped a clanger, fortunately it didn't effect my weekend, which I rely enjoyed. I certainly didn't mention it to chelle as she had more than enough on her plate, plus it wasn't her problem

I think all the downside bits were down to the hotel not being prepared and hopefully by March next year it will all be sorted as they will know what to expect.

Thanks again to everyone for making us feel welcome

Dave

[chellster]

so here goes guys a quick response to a few posts/texts i have received - i note your comments about real ale dave/sav and this is something i will be working on for march as i know this is a strong favourite amongst bb players. i am pleased to say i have had texts from both dave’s thanking me for the weekend so obviously wasn’t all bad. i’m sorry if the hotel wasn’t up to your expectations but i guess you can’t please everyone - we have stayed in some pretty grotty places to attend events before but have to say the majority of people thought the hotel was much improved from the queens. personally (when i had time to eat) i thought the food was excellent and let’s face it we don’t pay 5 star prices so shouldn’t expect 5 star class. dave ingram - i know you had issues with your room but believe it he hotel upgraded you to a balcony that other members of our group had paid a supplement for so i’m not sure what more they could have done. the issues i found were lack of bar staff which they tried their best to put right but even though i did warn them about our drinking habits they clearly thought we were exaggerating. i am meeting with the hotel to discuss march therefore please send any CONSTRUCTIVE criticism to me at [e-mail] and i will add it to the list. i am sending pleased to say that on the whole the feedback i have received had been very positive for a new venue and format but of course will take all ideas on board. once again it was the same old faces scoring games and we thank everyone that had to do more than their fair share! anyway that’s it for now as stuart mepham is still driving me home! not sure he likes my limit of 60 mph but anyone that know later me will understand then limit xxx see some of you in jersey and the rest whenever xxx

[bigtj]

A great weekend and thank you to those who organised the event (well done Chelle and Sammy). Thanks to Nigel for trying a successful new format (my opinion) and we still saw some unexpected results in group games.

Thanks to those who worked hard to get the tables there, erected and set up and also to the team who helped get everything out and back on the van. All these tasks are done by volunteers and a lot of the time without thanks (again sure they do not look for thanks and help out of the kindness of their heart) and to Sammy for driving the van to Bournemouth and back.

From my party (some non players included) can I say thanks to the hotel staff who we thought were helpful, hard working, welcoming and understanding of our needs. My room was good after all most of us are only looking for somewhere to get our heads down.

Always going to be teething troubles at a new venue but nothing that cannot be sorted with a bit of liaison between the organisers and the hotel management. Think they did underestimate the bar billiards community alcohol consumption levels but a learning curve. We are already talking about next March and will definitely be back.

Thank you to the lovely lady that worked hard to sell the raffle tickets and to Mr Knight for assisting the admin desk, in fact he used his vocal chords so hard calling out the games he went hoarse (some would say thank god, not me of course!!).

Well done to all that took part but especially to the winners and losers in a great weekend of bar billiards. Thanks lastly to my partner for having such broad shoulders and getting us to the plate semi-final.

[BB Warrior]

Oct 13, 2021 13:18:30 GMT BB Warrior said:

Oct 13, 2021 12:36:33 GMT NigelS said:

How can you say a player may not make a meaning contribution in nearly all of the group games? Admittedly your group has got the bye, but in the group of 6. You get one break, you choose the break in game 5 guaranteeing your star player two breaks. So guaranteed opportunities to win 2 games.

If so, then a player in our group is only GUARANTEED to have a meaningful opportunity to make a contribution in 1 game out of 4, so in 75% of the games they may not have an opportunity at all. I think 75% is a high enough percentage for me to call it "nearly all"?

Some people were critical of my choice to raise my "concerns" about the format before the competition had even started and felt that I should not have raised the subject until after the competition had been played. I can understand that viewpoint, although the other way of looking at that would be that to be critical afterwards is perhaps a case of "sour grapes" (if you have not done well) rather than looking at the possible problems and asking the organiser to think about the format in advance.

However, the format went ahead as planned and here are my observations on it. These are based only on the games that were played by my partner and I, but I am sure that other groups and pairs had similar experiences during the competition......

Just to clarify one point, when I stated that players would not make a "meaningful contribution" to a game, I base this on a player not having any chance to win the game for their pairing. (I accept that in the overall picture of groups that sometimes even potting the last ball in the 100 hole in a game that has already been won or lost could make a difference if a final group position is decided by aggregate score, but truly can't say that I would consider that a fair or meaningful contribution in this context).

Game 1. Game was won in first visit by player taking the second opening break in the game. Therefore players 3 and 4 had no chance to win the game or make a meaningful contribution.

Game 2. Chances for all players during this game, which was very scrappy.

Game 3. Our "bye" game as our group only had 5 pairs.

Game 4. Game was won by opening break of just under 10k by first player. No chances for any other players to win the game and player 4 only had ONE SHOT in the game, the last shot of the match potting the remaining 3 balls on the table. (And yes, that was me!)

Game 5. Game won by opening break by first player. Although all players did have plenty of goes after that, the only way that any of them could have made a "meaningful contribution" would have been if one of the winning pair had taken out the black peg.

So, in our 4 games, there was only ONE GAME (or 25%) that all 4 players could have made a meaningful contribution and 2 games were won in the first visit with no chance for the 2nd pair to catch the opening break by the first pair. Forgive me for saying "I told you so", but if you read my post above you will see that I even predicted that in 75% of the games that many players would have no opportunity..... so, I TOLD YOU SO!

Yes, in our group the draw for who had which breaks worked out to be the worst possible scenario for our pairing (yes, it is sour grapes time now) and had we been able to pick which player had the break in which games, we would have chosen to have them the other way around. Would that have made any difference.... who knows?

I certainly think it is not fair to only have single legs in a major tournament such as the British Pairs as that gives a clear advantage to the pair drawn to break first if they play well. It is certainly also unfair to penalise pairs that do not have players of equal quality by insisting that the weaker player takes the break in 2 of the games.... that is not in any rules within our game and, if that rule was ever introduced, would be the end of this competition in my opinion.

I also found it very strange that there were actually 3 different formats used in the competition...... single leg with lucky draw fixed break player and no equal opportunity during first 4 group games, equal opportunity with pairs able to nominate break player in last group game (for those lucky enough to have 6 in their group) before then going to the correct format for the knock out stages.

When I state "correct format" I mean to then playing 2 legs with each pair having a break game..... AS STATED IN THE AEBBA RULES for Open Pairs competitions.

Copied from AEBBA Rules....

56) Pairs Competitions, Break Order:
a) Open pairs Two Legs: Whoever follows the ‘Break’ Player CANNOT take the break in the next
game.
b) Open Pairs Four Legs - The break order will be:
(1)Game one: A B C D
(2)Game two: D C B A
(3)Game three:C D A B
(4)Game four: B A D C
c) Mixed Pairs: Ladies MUST have FIRST BREAK in ALL LEGS. Men CANNOT follow the FIRST
BREAK player

I did point that rule out before the competition was played as well, but was told it was only a "formatting change". Surely, if the rule says "Two Legs" then games should be played over 2 legs.... anything else is not playing to the rules of the competition?

Rant over.... thanks to all involved for organising and running the competition, I may not agree with the format that you used but I truly do appreciate the time and effort that you take to run the competition.

[BB Warrior]

Oct 18, 2021 12:01:16 GMT chellster said:

dave ingram - i know you had issues with your room but believe it he hotel upgraded you to a balcony that other members of our group had paid a supplement for so i’m not sure what more they could have done.

Chelle, just to clarify this.... I did report the problems that I had with my room and the hotel did offer me an alternative room, but it was a (very) small twin room at the back of the hotel that they offered me, not one of the rooms with a balcony. Since I had requested a double rather than a twin, I stayed in the room I had been originally been allocated and glad to say that I had no further problems.

Having said that, the hotel responded very well to my complaints and dealt with the situation in a very professional way so I was totally satisfied with the way that they responded.

A few other observations about the hotel and the weekend...

Location on the seafront was superb and it was nice to be able to sit outside and enjoy the sunshine! I thought that the bar areas and entertainment room (where the karaoke and music was played in the evenings) were very good, bar staff were very friendly and helpful (although perhaps there should have been a few more of them on occasions), the food was good in the restaurant and there seemed to be more parking available than at the Queens, but only if you arrived by Friday lunchtime!

I thought that the actual area that the competition was played was very tight and it meant that a lot of people were squashed into a small area. I did think that it was better when the doors between our area and the hotel restaurant were open on the Saturday, but they closed those on the Sunday and loaded a whole load of extra chairs into our area which meant it was impossible to really watch the tables or to support people playing. Given the ongoing Covid 19 pandemic, that concerned me and is the main reason that I left immediately after I had finished playing rather than staying to watch and score games as I have done in previous years.

I think it was a shame that we did not have the "traditional" quiz or race nights that we have previously had when the event was held at the Queens Hotel, those were always well supported and added a social side to the weekend. I know that the karaoke proved popular but the room looked much emptier on the Saturday when the DJ was just playing music and only the children seemed to be dancing.

The prices for the drinks at the bar seemed to vary depending on who served you.... the cost for my pints of blackcurrant and water ranged between 50p and £1.80! I was also charged £10.60 for a bacardi and coke and a malibu and pineapple (which I did not think was unreasonable) but then heard someone else being charged £18.40 for two Gin & Tonics by another member of bar staff, I am sure Gin is not that much more expensive than other spirits?? I wonder if anyone else noticed any difference in prices?

But, a big thank you to all involved in organising the event, I know how much hard worked is involved.

[bigtj]

Dave we noticed a difference in the drinks prices at times but this seemed as though the bar staff were not completely aware as to what were being offered at special partners for the bar billiards, sometimes it was to my advantage but not always. Have to agree food was good and that we missed the quiz and the horse racing night.

[tommo III]

Oct 18, 2021 13:45:35 GMT BB Warrior said:

Location on the seafront was superb and it was nice to be able to sit outside and enjoy the sunshine!

You were certainly lucky with the weather - it's been very mild for this time of year.

And by all accounts, we're now set for a week of rain.

[beefy]

Oct 18, 2021 8:55:44 GMT daveuk1 said:

Well thanks from all us Suffolk for a fun weekend and a very big pat on the back for Michelle and her crew for organising the event.


I cant talk for anyone else but my room was very disappointing, not the cleanest and for a double room it was tiny.

The lack of real ale certainly put a big damper on the weekend with all the real pubs a good 15 to 20 min walk away meaning no time between games to pop out and have a proper beer and on the Sunday morning being told the bar wouldnt be open by the time the first set games were due to start was a big blow, couldnt even get a glass of coke.

But as I said, thanks to the organisers, they cant be blamed for the problems, the tournament itself ran like clockwork and im sure everyone enjoyed the playing side of things

I would also echo those comments, definitely an improvement on the previous location but if thise partitions were going to be closed, they should have put some fans in there to at least circulate airflow.

Not sure what room you had but we saw some of the doubles on the way out and they were massive compare to the singles! Must have just been the luck of the draw. Just to let you know on the beer front though, my mate Dave won't drink any fizzy stuff and he was ok with Atlantic.

Top marks Michelle for negotiating the reduced bar prices, i looked at the full price, best part of 25% cheaper, if not more!

[chocie]

Firstly I would like to thank Michelle and Sammy for sort out a new venue for the weekend, also Nigel for sorting out the format and running he competition. Matt for assisting Nigel with making sure that it ran as smooth as possible(with the added bonus of him losing his voice). Kim for her Stella efforts to make everyone part with their money for the raffle.
I found the hotel very nice and the staff very friendly, yes there may have been a few teething problems with moving to a new venue but that is something that can be looked at and soothed out before March when we are back down there.



On a personal note I would like to thank everyone helped to get the table off the van and into to hotel and those who were able to stay on to help pack the tables down and get them back upstairs and loaded on the van.
Looking forward to March next year down there.

["Silent"]

Oct 17, 2021 22:21:54 GMT "Silent" said:

Congratulations to Kevin Tunstall and Martin Cole who retained their title beating Mark Brewster and Curt Driver in the final
Jason Neal and Simon Coleman won the plate, well done to them. Allan Lacey and Phil Griffin were runners up
Further details to follow

Kevin and Martin won the final comfortably 3-0 with Curt unable to reproduce his brilliant form from the semi-finals where he and Mark beat Pete and Paul Sainsbury. The other semi-final was a much tighter affair with Kevin making 3k in the last few minutes to ensure victory over their very tough opponents Geoff Jukes and Dennis Atkins

In the plate semi-finals Jason and Simon beat Rick Cunningham and Tony Jenner, Allan and Phil beating Janet Burns and Jon Scoones in the other semi

High break went to Joe Oakley with a brilliant table run out, and Bella Stoner took the ladies high break. Jon and Leanne Tyson won the merit award

Many thanks to Michelle and Sami for sorting out the hotel, Michelle remained "on call" for any issues throughout, hope she was still able to enjoy her weekend. She did an outstanding job. Sami did a brilliant job for everyone driving the van to ensure we had tables to play on. There was a bit of drama before she made the return journey, the AA man (following some frantic phone calls by Michelle) felt that the van was safe to drive. Sami was happy to drive it but took about 4 hours for her to drive the van back to Totteridge and get herself safely home. I believe Matt Jones was on hand to meet her in Totteridge which was appreciated Matt.

Nigel did a brilliant job as always as Tournament Director, he gives up so much free (and work) time volunteering to run tournaments on behalf of everyone who plays. It was very heartening to see so many go up to him to thank him throughout the day, he certainly got a very warm round of applause at the presentation, it was well deserved. My apologies to him he had to do a bit more announcing as my voice went much to the amusement of many - don't worry it will be back for Wednesday TJ!

Thanks to all the scorers, as always in some rounds it proved difficult but with the help of willing and a few unwilling volunteers we got there

I wasn't present for the setting up of the tables but believe that Stuart Mepham, Dennis Atkins, Geoff Jukes and Bob Hall were responsible for making that happen, thank you gents. Tables all provided different tests

I was present for the taking down of the tables and it was great to see so many people stay to help, they were all willing volunteers which made a difficult process just that little bit easier and quicker. Stuart Mepham you are an absolute star, co-ordinating the tables being put on the van, Dennis Atkins is star number 2 co-ordinating the work downstairs and star number 3 was Jason Neal who co-ordinated the lift work. Special mentions to Ash Harrison, Martin Kemsley, the incredible Tony Jenner, Joe Oakley and Phil Oakley who got all the tables from the door of the hotel onto the van, that was a lot of heavy lifting. Rick Cunningham was a calming influence whilst I was ranting, he also correctly advised that I was simply walking around with a pen and a piece of paper whilst everyone else was working! Jack Baden you lost so many high breaks but you are partly forgiven for all the hard work you put in helping put the tables away! Simon Coleman and Kevin Stoner did the lighter lifting of the table accessories but no less important so thanks to them - Rick I think the pen and paper were useful and I have remembered everyone Thanks also to those who managed to get the tables upright but had to go, this certainly made life easier too

Finally I noted a comment earlier that the forum was for friendly debate. I suppose what is friendly would always be up for debate so perhaps we all should all consider how comments might be received by others before making them especially when directed at those who give up their time for free to enable these sort of competitions to take place

[milko]

Well it didn't put my "mind at rest" that the AA man said it was safe for Sami to drive it without a handbrake!

["Silent"]

Oct 18, 2021 21:26:50 GMT milko said:

Well it didn't put my "mind at rest" that the AA man said it was safe for Sami to drive it without a handbrake!

Thank you for pointing this out Keith - I will amend the post

[milko]

My son Steven also deserves a mention as he worked his socks off in the morning lifting those tables from the van and I did my bit by also helping by taking other stuff up and down those steps at the front of the hotel in the morning and at the end of the tournament. Probably the reason I've got so much pain in my leg today!

(Only saying this as it seems someone ran out of ink in his pen)

["Silent"]

Oct 18, 2021 21:48:48 GMT milko said:

My son Steven also deserves a mention as he worked his socks off in the morning lifting those tables from the van and I did my bit by also helping by taking other stuff up and down those steps at the front of the hotel in the morning and at the end of the tournament. Probably the reason I've got so much pain in my leg today!

(Only saying this as it seems someone ran out of ink in his pen)

Pen and paper only available for the evening session

Thank you both and thank you to anyone else who helped and has not been mentioned

[bigtj]

It was heartening to see so much help at the end and lets hope that can become a trend as I know that sometimes it is the dismantling and storing of the tables that presents most problems. I know people want to get home at the end of long days. I once again say look at the age and the physical ailments that a lot of the people that were helping have and we see the problems that face us in the future.

I am sorry I think I forgot to thank Nigel personally but will always appreciate what he does and lets remember where competitions are being held and he has taken on the tournament directors job and does not even drive. The task is thankless, time consuming and Nigel is not going to please all of us all the time.

Let`s now move on to the last event of this year at Totteridge this Sunday (the Off the Spot) and have another great day. Thanks to Dawn for all the work she has done on getting entries up, even if it makes a headache for Nigel. Be great to see everyone again.

Once last mention to all those who enter the competitions, no matter what standard of player, as we need to remember without those who turn up and just give it a go we would not be able to hold many of our competitions and opens as they would not be financially viable.

[lewisstrat26]

My first Bournemouth trip for a few years. Really enjoyed it and will definitely be booking up in March. Great venue and very well run.

[NigelS]

After lying down in a darkened room Monday, I thought it time to post on here about the weekend in Bournemouth just gone!

Many of these thankyous have been done already, but I would like to personally thank the following people…

First of all thanks to the hotel. We have been at a previous venue for many years and so this was always going to be new and different. The big thing for me they wanted us there. They did everything they could to help us and make the weekend run as best as it could.

Thanks to Kim (Michelle’s friend) for doing the raffle. I believe it raised nearly £500!

Huge thanks to Geoff, Stu, Bob Hall, Dennis & Steven for getting those tables in the venue Friday. Bob was sweating, Geoff didn’t have a bead of sweat on him. Dennis and Stu then went around levelling the tables and did a great job.

Chelle and Sami did great to get 47 pairs (not far off 2020 level of 56) that is 94 players participating. We will do well to see those numbers at any open bar Jersey. Also many non players turned up for the weekend. We filled out the hotel bar the bottom floor!

Big thanks to my partner in crime Matt, he lost his voice mid Saturday, but still helped me keep it all on track getting scorers and players to tables to keep the day moving on. Couldn’t do it without his help.

There was also a great effort on the Sunday night to get those tables on the van, Big thanks to those people (Matt wrote them down on his bit of paper) and once on the van Sami managed to get them back to Totteridge – thanks to her for doing those two trips.

If you have any feedback around the format, what you liked, what you did not like, please contact me. The more players that feed back to me will give me a better feel as to what most people want out of the competition. I will address some of the points already raised here in a separate post.

If you have any feedback for the hotel side of things, you can message Michelle, she will be speaking to them anyway about next year’s event

Speaking of next years event, the hotel want us back!? So back to the traditional March slot of 5th/6th March. Booking forms will be out by end of November, deposits due 31st December, final balances due 31st January. (Yes that doesn’t seem far away!)

[NigelS]

Details of the competition have already been posted, but a summary below from me. Full details of all matches will be posted on the AEBBA website, when I get the chance to….

47 pairs entered the competition and started Saturday morning. Pairs were split into 8 groups, 7 of 6 pairs and one of 5. Different format for this year with single legs and pairs taking a break each in their opening 4 games. 5th game would be pairs choice and equal opportunity. Top 3 pairs in each group would go through to the main competition on Sunday the bottom 3 going into the plate.

Group A – top pairs Curt Driver & Mark Brewster and Leon Beer & Phil Collins made it through this tough group with 4 wins from 5. Leon & Phil did survive a scare losing their first game and were in trouble in game 2 but got over the line there. John Miller & Alan Donovan also got through on 4 wins, meaning Jason Neal & Simon Coleman would be in the plate as they could only manage the one win

Group B – Barry Holt & Phil Oakley went through winning all 5 games. Lewis Stratford & Vinnie Brown and Bill Trinder & William Trinder both made it through on 3 wins. 4 pinners Jeff Bridges & Matt Webb did well to win 2 games at their first 3 pin event.

Group C – Paul Sainsbury & Pete Sainsbury won this group unbeaten with 4 wins (and a draw!). Andy Burns & Tony Walsh were 2nd. Pete Philips & Steven Sheard edged out Jack Baden & Matt Knight on aggregate both pairs recording 3 wins. Zara Oakley & Zoe Stoner failed to register a win but I think had the most fun over the weekend….

Group D – This was the group of 5. Jim Greenstead & Stephen Coleman won all 4 matches. Bob Hall & Phil Osborne and Dave Ingram & Kyle Ingram both progressed safely.

Group E – Kevin Tunstall & Martin Cole went through unbeaten. Surrey’s Dave Constable & Tony Cross won 4. Jon Tyson & Leanne Tyson hit some good score to win 3 games to progress. Their reward? A match against Leon & Phil!

Group F – Damian Coates & Mel Stanbridge impressed topping this group pipping Dino Clark & Syl Murphy. Colin Robbins and Gary Powell replacement Terri King did well to take 3rd, putting Keith Sheard & Pauline Withey and Ric Cunningham & Tony Jenner into the plate.

Group G – the steady pairing of Dennis Atkins & Geoff Jukes went through unbeaten. Jim Millward & Joe Oakley took 2nd. 3rd was decided on aggregate Darren Isard & Terry Isard scoring enough to put do Allan Oliver and Ian Moss, and the Jersey Ladies Jenny Noel & Emma Noel.

Group H – Matt Jones & Phil Hawkins won all 5 matches. Matt taking advantage of the equal opportunity last game pulling the bar to beat Nigel’s opening 9k effort. This meant Marcus Chipman and Nigel Senior would finish 3rd, with steady Ernie Jordan & unsteady Stu Mepham finishing 2nd.

Moving onto Sunday, the plate competition was contested by the pairs finishing 4th,5th & 6th in their groups. I think it fair to say Jason Neal & Simon Coleman were favourites, and improved on their Saturday performance. They beat Brian Richards & Chris Richards before taking out Keith Hollis & Dave Gordon in the quarter finals. In the semis they met Ric Cunningham & Tony Jenner beating them 3-0. In the final they met Allan Lacey and Phil Griffin who couldn’t win a game on Saturday but won 4 matches on the Sunday including a win over Keith Sheard & Pauline Withey and a revenge win over Janet Burns & Jon Scoones who they lost to in their group. The final proved a step too far as although they took it to a decider they lost 3-1.

Onto the main, the 2nd and 3rd place teams played off first to join the 8 group winners. Pairs to choose break players and best of 2 until the semis and final which would be best of 4. 3 time champions Leon Beer & Phil Collins made it through beating Jon Tyson & Leanne Tyson, but 2 times champs Marcus Chipman & Nigel Senior fell at this stage to Bob Hall & Phil Osborne. Joe Oakley recorded the days high break with 16,390 in his and Jim Millward’s win over Pete Philips & Steve Sheard (the 2011 champs) Two very close games won by the Ingrams against Ernie & Stu (12,290-12,050) and Lewis Stratford & Vinnie Brown beating Colin Robbins & Teri King (8,780-8370).

Into the last 16 where yesterday’s group winners joined in. 5 of them would progress including reigning champs Kevin Tunstall & Martin Cole knocking out Bob & Phil. Leon & Phil beat group winners Matt Jones & Phil Hawkins. Jim & Joe kept going by beating Barry holt and dad Phil Oakley. Andy Burns & Tony Walsh beat group winners Damian cotes & Mel Stanbridge to progress

Into the quarter finals Curt Driver & Mark Brewster ended Jim & Joe’s run. Paul & Pete Sainsbury ended Jim Greensted & Stephen Coleman’s fine run. KT & Martin got past Andy & tony. Game of the round which I had the privilege to score saw Dennis & Geoff knock out Leon & Phil. Phil chasing 14.5k missing on 14,150 then it went round to all players before Dennis got them over the line.

Then the 4 leg semis – Curt & Mark won a one sided affair against Paul & Pete winning 3-0. Paul & Pete only scoring 50 over 3 legs (although Paul lost a break in leg 2). KT and Martin had a much closer game against Dennis & Geoff – it went to the decider with Dennis & Geoff 2k up and 2-1. We were thinking all over as KT’s break to come, but he came off and after a bit of panic on both sides it was KT who cleared and got him and Martin through to the final.

So the previous 2 winners made the final Curt & Mark (2014 & 2019 champs) v Kevin & Martin (2020 champs). Martin took first break and made around 3k but KT finished it off for an 11k lead. Curt broke down on 3k and his worst fears were confirmed when KT retrieved the balls and made 10k to win leg 2. KT then made no mistake in leg 3 to seal a 3-0 victory and the title was retained.

So there you go the winners were then

Winners – Kevin Tunstall & Martin Cole (£50 each + break at Suncliff Hotel (courtesy of the hotel))
Runners-up – Curt Driver & Mark Brewster (£25 each)
Semi Finalists – Paul Sainsbury & Pete Sainsbury/ Dennis Atkins & Geoff Jukes (£10 each)
Plate Winners – Jason Neal & Simon Coleman (£20 each)
Plate Runners Up – Allan Lacey & Phil Griffin (£10 each)
High Break – Joe Oakley 16.390 (£20)
Ladies High Break – Bella Stoner 4,200 (£20)
Merit Prize – Jon Tyson & Leanne Tyson (£10 each)

[NigelS]

As I said in the previous post please give me any feedback on the format that was played over the weekend. That is a request from all players regardless of ability – the more feedback I get the more informed decision I can make for next year. I am just going to address some of the points that have been made post the event.

With regards to Dave Ingram’s point about meaningful contributions of players and how it worked out in his group – I understand you are telling me I told you so, however I think I said I basically understood this could be the outcome, so you were you not telling me something I knew already? However I doubt pairs had a similar experience to yourself in the competition. Having gone through the scores in the single leg games I found 77 of the 115 legs played neither teams scored over 8k. I think it therefore fair to assume that in most of those legs opportunities were had by all 4 players in that game. So around 70%, but that figure is probably higher in reality as a some of those 8k scores would not have been made first or second visit by either pair.

As I stated previously though, I was not concerned with players getting opportunities in all games rather than pairs getting opportunities. Each pair had 3 opportunities minimum to win games. Only one pair managed 3 wins and were eliminated but having scored 14k over the 5 legs it was not enough to get through against another pair tied on 3 wins. 14k scored after having 3 breaks I am not sure could be considered unlucky. In fact I don’t think any pair not making the main competition after the group stages could be considered hard done by, don’t want to sound too harsh but in all cases they hadn’t done enough (even if in some cases it was not quite enough). So although I am not concerned with players getting opportunities in all legs they were guaranteed one break overall, which has not happened in that past.

Single legs in major tournaments are not fair? Well, the biggest of them all has single legs in the Group Stages and we play in it next month – Jersey! Maybe they could take a leaf out of our book and make that last leg equal opportunity to guarantee 2 chances in 3 games rather than 1 (and I have to give Curt credit for that idea rather than myself). But they have been going 40 years so sure they know what they are doing, but certainly they have changed things as they years have gone by as we should, and continues to be the biggest (and best in my opinion) tournament of the year…

Correct format per the rules – rules can be interpreted differently but I see nowhere in the rules stopping me playing 1 leg matches in the event. Yes, the rules gives the playing order for 2 legs then 4 legs, but doesn’t say which rounds have to be so many legs. That may be me being pernickety but it is easy to get hung up over the rules and how they are interpreted. Some are clearly outdated and just need updating which is a painstaking task as has to go through an AGM first then someone has to update them. But we cant hold back tournaments and move with the times if we are just going to stick to outdated rules and formats. A straight knockout event is easy for me to format, but would pretty much finish Saturday afternoon with 47 pairs. The hotel is booked for the whole weekend – they want us around Sunday, which is why I extended the event longer into the Sunday.

Why not groups of 4 with double legs? To be fair Dave I am not a fan single legs and rather have double legs where possible so each game is definitely winnable, so this I would have preferred. But that would have meant 12 groups. 12 or 24 doesn’t fit then nicely into a knockout stage. You haven’t got time or tables really to do a second group stage which was considered. Also double legs in group stages is hard for lesser pairs who play a top pair who will try (rightly) to pile on a score to make sure they progress, so in some ways the single leg system works better. and it worked better as there were 8 groups rather than 12.

Covid safe? I have seen this mentioned and probably one for Chelle in a way, but in my opinion with nearly 100 players in the event to guarantee a 100% Covid safe environment is just not possible. If someone feels too uncomfortable to attend an event they have every right to feel that way and I would advise them to not attend. We are where we are now, people are going to football matches with thousands of other people and other big indoor events also. The room is what it is for the billiards, it is tight but enough room to play. We even considered playing in multiple rooms back last year to get the event on – not ideal but we would have tried to make it work, but lockdown etc saw us postpone until October anyway. I hope we don’t have more restrictions coming but who knows what the future will bring there.

I wont post on any more until I get feedback form more players and we move closer to 2022 Bournemouth. But you can private message me with your thoughts on probaords or email or text even! I will then summarise the points on here later on and go forward with that.

The weekend reminds me of two quotes –
“you can please some of the people some of the time…...but not all of the people all of the time.

This other one reminds me of both me and Dave….
The great Brian Clough once said when a player disagreed with him – "We would talk about it for twenty minutes and then we would decide I was right." Trouble is we are both Brian Clough in this instance Dave….

Thanks for reading if you have read my Gleen Chubbesque posts today, see some of you Sunday then more of you in Jersey…

[bigtj]

It would be good if Nigel could receive feed back from a good cross section of those that attended as he will then be able to gauge peoples feelings better than just hearing from the few of us that will always comment. Remember let him know if you enjoyed the format and also vote with your entries for next March.

Feed back to Michelle about the hotel as well so she can discuss these with the hotel. I am sure the hotel have lessons they have learnt from this years but cannot improve if we do not tell them what we want.

[BB Warrior]

Oct 19, 2021 12:30:46 GMT NigelS said:

As I said in the previous post please give me any feedback on the format that was played over the weekend. That is a request from all players regardless of ability – the more feedback I get the more informed decision I can make for next year. I am just going to address some of the points that have been made post the event.

With regards to Dave Ingram’s point about meaningful contributions of players and how it worked out in his group – I understand you are telling me I told you so, however I think I said I basically understood this could be the outcome, so you were you not telling me something I knew already? However I doubt pairs had a similar experience to yourself in the competition. Having gone through the scores in the single leg games I found 77 of the 115 legs played neither teams scored over 8k. I think it therefore fair to assume that in most of those legs opportunities were had by all 4 players in that game. So around 70%, but that figure is probably higher in reality as a some of those 8k scores would not have been made first or second visit by either pair.

As I stated previously though, I was not concerned with players getting opportunities in all games rather than pairs getting opportunities. Each pair had 3 opportunities minimum to win games. Only one pair managed 3 wins and were eliminated but having scored 14k over the 5 legs it was not enough to get through against another pair tied on 3 wins. 14k scored after having 3 breaks I am not sure could be considered unlucky. In fact I don’t think any pair not making the main competition after the group stages could be considered hard done by, don’t want to sound too harsh but in all cases they hadn’t done enough (even if in some cases it was not quite enough). So although I am not concerned with players getting opportunities in all legs they were guaranteed one break overall, which has not happened in that past.

Single legs in major tournaments are not fair? Well, the biggest of them all has single legs in the Group Stages and we play in it next month – Jersey! Maybe they could take a leaf out of our book and make that last leg equal opportunity to guarantee 2 chances in 3 games rather than 1 (and I have to give Curt credit for that idea rather than myself). But they have been going 40 years so sure they know what they are doing, but certainly they have changed things as they years have gone by as we should, and continues to be the biggest (and best in my opinion) tournament of the year…

Correct format per the rules – rules can be interpreted differently but I see nowhere in the rules stopping me playing 1 leg matches in the event. Yes, the rules gives the playing order for 2 legs then 4 legs, but doesn’t say which rounds have to be so many legs. That may be me being pernickety but it is easy to get hung up over the rules and how they are interpreted. Some are clearly outdated and just need updating which is a painstaking task as has to go through an AGM first then someone has to update them. But we cant hold back tournaments and move with the times if we are just going to stick to outdated rules and formats. A straight knockout event is easy for me to format, but would pretty much finish Saturday afternoon with 47 pairs. The hotel is booked for the whole weekend – they want us around Sunday, which is why I extended the event longer into the Sunday.

Why not groups of 4 with double legs? To be fair Dave I am not a fan single legs and rather have double legs where possible so each game is definitely winnable, so this I would have preferred. But that would have meant 12 groups. 12 or 24 doesn’t fit then nicely into a knockout stage. You haven’t got time or tables really to do a second group stage which was considered. Also double legs in group stages is hard for lesser pairs who play a top pair who will try (rightly) to pile on a score to make sure they progress, so in some ways the single leg system works better. and it worked better as there were 8 groups rather than 12.

Covid safe? I have seen this mentioned and probably one for Chelle in a way, but in my opinion with nearly 100 players in the event to guarantee a 100% Covid safe environment is just not possible. If someone feels too uncomfortable to attend an event they have every right to feel that way and I would advise them to not attend. We are where we are now, people are going to football matches with thousands of other people and other big indoor events also. The room is what it is for the billiards, it is tight but enough room to play. We even considered playing in multiple rooms back last year to get the event on – not ideal but we would have tried to make it work, but lockdown etc saw us postpone until October anyway. I hope we don’t have more restrictions coming but who knows what the future will bring there.

I wont post on any more until I get feedback form more players and we move closer to 2022 Bournemouth. But you can private message me with your thoughts on probaords or email or text even! I will then summarise the points on here later on and go forward with that.

The weekend reminds me of two quotes –
“you can please some of the people some of the time…...but not all of the people all of the time.

This other one reminds me of both me and Dave….
The great Brian Clough once said when a player disagreed with him – "We would talk about it for twenty minutes and then we would decide I was right." Trouble is we are both Brian Clough in this instance Dave….

Thanks for reading if you have read my Gleen Chubbesque posts today, see some of you Sunday then more of you in Jersey…

Oh boy, there are so many things that I could say in reply to some of the points made here....

But all I will say at this time is thank you Nigel for your work at the weekend.

[Hammy]

Oct 18, 2021 20:26:12 GMT "Silent" said:

Oct 17, 2021 22:21:54 GMT "Silent" said:

Congratulations to Kevin Tunstall and Martin Cole who retained their title beating Mark Brewster and Curt Driver in the final
Jason Neal and Simon Coleman won the plate, well done to them. Allan Lacey and Phil Griffin were runners up
Further details to follow

Kevin and Martin won the final comfortably 3-0 with Curt unable to reproduce his brilliant form from the semi-finals where he and Mark beat Pete and Paul Sainsbury. The other semi-final was a much tighter affair with Kevin making 3k in the last few minutes to ensure victory over their very tough opponents Geoff Jukes and Dennis Atkins

In the plate semi-finals Jason and Simon beat Rick Cunningham and Tony Jenner, Allan and Phil beating Janet Burns and Jon Scoones in the other semi

High break went to Joe Oakley with a brilliant table run out, and Bella Stoner took the ladies high break. Jon and Leanne Tyson won the merit award

Many thanks to Michelle and Sami for sorting out the hotel, Michelle remained "on call" for any issues throughout, hope she was still able to enjoy her weekend. She did an outstanding job. Sami did a brilliant job for everyone driving the van to ensure we had tables to play on. There was a bit of drama before she made the return journey, the AA man (following some frantic phone calls by Michelle) felt that the van was safe to drive. Sami was happy to drive it but took about 4 hours for her to drive the van back to Totteridge and get herself safely home. I believe Matt Jones was on hand to meet her in Totteridge which was appreciated Matt.

Nigel did a brilliant job as always as Tournament Director, he gives up so much free (and work) time volunteering to run tournaments on behalf of everyone who plays. It was very heartening to see so many go up to him to thank him throughout the day, he certainly got a very warm round of applause at the presentation, it was well deserved. My apologies to him he had to do a bit more announcing as my voice went much to the amusement of many - don't worry it will be back for Wednesday TJ!

Thanks to all the scorers, as always in some rounds it proved difficult but with the help of willing and a few unwilling volunteers we got there

I wasn't present for the setting up of the tables but believe that Stuart Mepham, Dennis Atkins, Geoff Jukes and Bob Hall were responsible for making that happen, thank you gents. Tables all provided different tests

I was present for the taking down of the tables and it was great to see so many people stay to help, they were all willing volunteers which made a difficult process just that little bit easier and quicker. Stuart Mepham you are an absolute star, co-ordinating the tables being put on the van, Dennis Atkins is star number 2 co-ordinating the work downstairs and star number 3 was Jason Neal who co-ordinated the lift work. Special mentions to Ash Harrison, Martin Kemsley, the incredible Tony Jenner, Joe Oakley and Phil Oakley who got all the tables from the door of the hotel onto the van, that was a lot of heavy lifting. Rick Cunningham was a calming influence whilst I was ranting, he also correctly advised that I was simply walking around with a pen and a piece of paper whilst everyone else was working! Jack Baden you lost so many high breaks but you are partly forgiven for all the hard work you put in helping put the tables away! Simon Coleman and Kevin Stoner did the lighter lifting of the table accessories but no less important so thanks to them - Rick I think the pen and paper were useful and I have remembered everyone Thanks also to those who managed to get the tables upright but had to go, this certainly made life easier too

Finally I noted a comment earlier that the forum was for friendly debate. I suppose what is friendly would always be up for debate so perhaps we all should all consider how comments might be received by others before making them especially when directed at those who give up their time for free to enable these sort of competitions to take place

Just want to say a big well done to all involved. Stu for setting up the tables, Nigel and Matt for running an excellent competition (we know how difficult and the hardwork that goes into them), Sami for the van driving and Chelle and Kim for doing a great job on the raffle.

A few teething issues with hotel but nothing that can’t be sorted. Great job all👍