taffy
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Posts: 514
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Post by taffy on Nov 18, 2021 8:04:06 GMT
if they ever write the history of our game, surely somewhere it will say something like; "......but during the 1960-2020 period, the tables remained largely untendered by the very people that owned them and stood to gain from their better preperation. That they didn't, resigned too many tables to dingy corners where despondent customers walked away from a game never to spend their earned coin in that way again"
Taffy
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Post by tommo III on Nov 18, 2021 11:46:05 GMT
Three points in defence of our local table operator .... 1. A price-rise for play only came into effect one year before pandemic and had been pegged at one pound for THIRTY years. An oft-used quote is that "the bar billiards side of the business is subsidised from Pool".
2. Tarratts would always respond to a phonecall if something needed to be put right: Sams Brothers tables are constructed as a frame with removable top and in the most extreme cases would simply provide a replacement top. This could start off as brilliant to play on, but invariably would 'revert to type' as the team used the leg adjusters ON THE FRAME to make the top play a certain way.
3. It is unfair to implicate the operator in the decline of the game's popularity. This is down to many reasons - the advent of Pool in pubs (easier for youngsters to learn to play); drink-driving laws and the banning of smoking meaning less pub customers; prices of a pint driving the game more into social clubs; many of the previously-loved venues going 'foody' and finding they no longer had space for a table. And an opportunity missed with modern (Supreme) tables - which could have saved the game - being a load of crap and shunned by the players.
tommo
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Post by tommo III on Nov 18, 2021 19:11:00 GMT
if they ever write the history of our game ............... Taffy Thought I penned the Timeline (Parts 1 to 4):
Maybe I just imagined it ! 
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taffy
Distinguished Member
Posts: 514
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Post by taffy on Nov 19, 2021 9:07:44 GMT
if they ever write the history of our game ............... Taffy Thought I penned the Timeline (Parts 1 to 4):
Maybe I just imagined it !
now, now, self praise is no praise! I disagree with you about the tables. But let's not get into a heated debate on the wrong thread..... Taffy |
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Post by JT on Nov 20, 2021 10:20:02 GMT
Hi Everybody
It is not just bar billiards that are in decline, there are fewer Pool, Snooker, Darts, Cribbage, Dominos, Pentathlon, Tiddlywinks leagues running over the past twenty years
For this to stop we need to stop Modern Man or Woman from playing silly games on his or her laptop and mobile
Unfortunately there is no chance of this happening
JT
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Post by tommo III on Nov 20, 2021 10:48:25 GMT
That's a very valid point, John. You could probably add ten-pin bowling to the list, we had a bowling alley in Crawley with a League (I recall Andy Finn used to play in it). And whichever pubs have been brave enough to invest in a skittle alley are enjoying a renaissance in popularity (one I visited in Wanstrow, Somerset has sixteen teams).
Horsham used to have the Forest Green (3-ball) billiards league - now gone - and as a teenager I used to belong to a Bridge Club and used to attend Whist Drives and Beetle Drives enjoyed by the oldies. Great fun !
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Post by Sir Chancelot on Nov 20, 2021 23:46:31 GMT
I think that Guernsey are and have been taking a bit of a lead on this general decline of pub sports.
Several years ago, so many darts teams over here were folding and from 8 a side teams some 3 a side leagues were formed. Then there was also a Friday night singles league with two divisions.
Guernsey Bar Billiards had occasionally experimented with an unofficial summer singles league.
However, this became more successful recently when Darren Ogier formed a singles league with ten players, double games, playing from one venue, Hampshire Lodge.
As Guernsey were getting down to just two or three teams left that could muster five players each week, radical decisions had to be made.
Even the four-player rule wasn't working, with so many matches were being cancelled.
We did not wish to end up like Jersey, two or three teams playing from one venue.
This season at the AGM it was voted in that a new singles league should be formed.
With a second division, this has brought in some new players and some returning players back into the game.
Both divisions are very competitive and we mix first and second division matches at the same four venues each week, so the newbies can have some help with marking and some encouragement to play.
With promotion and relegation, this keeps it interesting and very competitive.
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taffy
Distinguished Member
Posts: 514
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Post by taffy on Nov 23, 2021 17:37:56 GMT
how does a singles league work?
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Post by Sir Chancelot on Nov 24, 2021 11:21:36 GMT
how does a singles league work? Hi Taffy, if anyone would have told me 10 years ago that a singles league would be the way forward to save Guernsey Bar Billiards, I would have told them to sod off ! I was playing for a long-established team with five of us who would turn up week after week without fail, home or away. We had a couple of reserves who would fill in occasionally if required. However, like in most situations, time moves on. People give up playing for one reason or another and not everyone likes to turn out every week, especially in the winter months. It is often difficult to replace a regular player and mate when they decide to retire, and some people have moved off-Island or simply had enough, for one reason or another. Landlords change, tables get sold off or moved out of venues, etc. Hence the situation we found ourselves in with only one Guernsey team with five regular players. A singles league works in the same way as any other league, with modifications. We have formed a second division for new and returning players. The first division contains players who were in the top half of our inaugural singles league, and higher ranked Guernsey players from the last full season of the team league we held. Each player plays all other players in the league twice in a season, the format being a break each, scores are wiped after each match. A point for each win, and a point for the aggregate over two games. There are no home tables and we move around four venues at the moment. At the end of the current season there will be a promotion and relegation process. The top two from the second division go up, bottom two from division one will go down. So at the end of the season, you also have a winner and runner-up for each division. Matches take place on the same evenings, Tuesdays, and we mix first and second division players at the same venues, with a pre-timed format for each match so you know which order to play in, although this can be flexible as long as the match is played on the same table on the allocated date. If a match is missed most payers re-arrange when gaps become available during the season. |
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taffy
Distinguished Member
Posts: 514
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Post by taffy on Nov 24, 2021 14:30:52 GMT
so in an evening you would have 2 games in div 1 and two games in div 2 and a player spare in each league?
the next week move to pub 2, then the next pub 3 and the next pub 4 before returning to pub 1 on the 5th week?
so the landlord sees what? at least 4 games in an evening?
The old way of doing it which I haven't seen at all is called Ladder Bar Billiards. Basically, within one pub, there are names on the wall and you move up and down the ladder depending on losing and winning. you are meant to seek out the player you should play above and ask for a game but I guess if you just lost to him then you will be challenged from below. You organise the game for when you both can but I don't see why you shouldn't have a club night where the number 1 player plays number 2 and then player 3 plays 4 etc. If you can't make it you contact one another to play in between so that by the following Tuesday the previous fixtures are settled.
It sounds like; "not leaving the pub games of singles" might have some Guernsey mileage in it!
It would be good to hear from someone who has done this and list the pitfalls plus obstacles and describe their solutions?
I intend trying to run 'leagues of three players' and try for example; 'The Tharp Arms A' away at 'The Red Lion A' and then immediately the return fixture the following week. Then, eventually with more players; 'The Red Lion B v The Tharp Arms B' would be the alternative fixture on the same night. Then, following week the two games would swop premises. This way the Landlord always has something on even if it is half the size of old - every week. Very social by the second fixture's end I feel! But look below at how many games the players would get. it's 3 out of the 6 games. Sometimes for the Captains it would be 4 from 7.
So, I'm hoping for 3 doubles, 3 singles and a Captains for a 2-0 point win if 4-2, 5-1, 6-0 but 2 points to 1 point (for the opposition) if it is a 4-3 win after the Captains played at the end. I wanted it so that the 7th game only goes ahead if it is 3-3 and if 4-2, 5-1, 6-0 = it doesn't take place and it is 2-0 points win/won. Not sure on that last one......
The ladder thing appeals but a good record needs to be kept.....
regards
Taffy
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Post by tommo III on Nov 24, 2021 17:09:54 GMT
Ladder: applies to any pub sport - have seen it in operation for Chess .... could work for bar billiards. Main pitfall, after several challenges ladder can become static with the players on the bottom rungs losing interest. They only use the one venue (The Newshouse) but have all sorts of challenges (for County champion etc) and even sent a team to play in the AEBBA County Championships (Div.2) this year. A good benchmark to follow is the formation of the Norwich League which has been existence for little more than 10 years and is now one of the largest in the country. Started off as an annual challenge between the Rosary Tavern and the Kings Head and built up from there:
With four venues in easy reach of each other you are well placed to form your own association - all you need is a trophy to fight for and I'm sure Big Al would be willing to accept the commission of a "Mushtittle" 
Good luck ! tommo
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