Results 26/09/07

[bigtj]

Well the start of the season is upon us and the new format gets underway with the Windmill C playing the Brewery Tap B giving the latter all fibe breaks.
Unfortunately for the Tap they found problems with the table and the result was a 5 - 0 win to the Windmill. No exceptional scores with the home team doing enough to ensure the result and giving the opponents table time.

A very entertaining evening with plenty of banter, but my one fear came to the fore with some of the Tap feeling is it really worth turning out if they are going to be on the end of these score lines. As above we tried to give table time,but ultimately teams and players are out to win their game,and as I emphasised to the Tap the idea will give them more games better opposition and venues to play. We encouraged their players and tried to help them, but I am concerned that we could loose players and even teams.
I know it is early days and am sure when they pick up individual legs against higher division teams ( which I can assure them they will ) they will start to feel differently. Please all take these points in mind and try to encourage what could be the future of the game to learn from experience. Lastly the lower division have to realise that they ultimately are playing to win their division within the league and the experience they can pick up from playing better players will stand them in good stead for those matches.

Sorry to go on but I am concerned we do not put people of and eventually word gets round and we will find it hard to recruit new blood.

[NigelS]

Hi Tony,

Even though I supported the move to one division, I too share your concerns regarding the lower division teams.

I do hope that lower division teams to continue to show up and play every week and try to learn from the better players, rather than not bother playing the top teams as they don’t think there is any chance of winning, or even worse, pull their sides out. I am sure it is demoralising to lose heavily most weeks, but as you say, division 2 teams are competing amongst themselves for the division 2 title, so any wins against the top sides should be seen as a bonus. We have tried to give them every advantage, as they get all 5 breaks against all Prem and Div 1 teams. As they improve I would expect them to be able to beat some div 1 teams They also still play each other home and away to give them 8 games against similar opposition. The reason for doing this was to give everyone a bigger variety of opposition (a frequent complaint from the lower div players) and more matches.

Had I known about this before the AGM, I would have probably proposed a point per leg system, thus giving the lesser teams an incentive for turning up, as a 1-4 or 2-3 loss would give them points, that may make a big difference in that particular league. I am not a fan of the point per leg system but it may a good move in Brighton.

PS Our result from last night - Brewery Tap A 4-1 Duke of Wellington B (my dads tema)

[JB]

Montreal 2 Albion 3

Mick Barsby 1450 Alan Brackenridge 10410
Steve Burns 1460 Jean Brackenridge 7830
Gary Mechan 5250 Doug Dawson 5500
Wayne Pryor 3190 Caroline Retfalvi B/P
Bob Mechan 3870 Sandra Race 2090

Great night, great food and not too much banter ;) ;D ::)

Mick hit his first one up shot too soft and let Alan in who then got 5000ish on a table that was good but tricky and got the break back towards the end to finish off

Steve went off with 800ish before missing. I got the break back after a few gos and pegged 2000ish. Got the break back later in the game and made sure with 5500ish.

Gary and Dougs game was the best of the night. Gary being 3000 up with not much time left Doug got the break back and managed to just do enough. Gary had one last chance but as usual the red went down when he needed it to stay up.

Wayne had a good game against Caroline but amazed his teammates by going for the 200 with the last ball. Fortunately he didnt black it and draw the game

Bob and Sandra both played well but i think the drink was starting to take effect

I think the Montreal enjoyed the night and were happy to play a higher div team but im sure Gary will let us know.

[JB]

Hi Nige

In reply to your comment on 1 point per leg system. As you can see Bella & Kev didnt play but if we needed to go for a point for each game the team would almost certainly have been played differently.

Could it just be done a point per leg just for Div 2 teams?

I dont like the point per game system as i think the slightly weaker players in a team are unlikely to get so many games. I also think it favours the really strong teams and not the ones with mixed ability

Think the drinks still taking effect coz not sure im making much sense this morning.

[NigelS]

Jean,

Ha, you are making sense - so the drink has probably worn off enough! You make a good point as if it was a point per leg teams would have to put out their strongest teams at all times. As with making it a point per leg for division 2 teams only, it is a possible solution. However, I am not sure whether I would like two systems within then same league, mainly for the reasons you said above division 1 teams may put out weaker players when the match is already won, giving div 2 teams the chance of picking up points they would not normally have had.

We will all have to see how the season goes and people need to voice their opinions on the new format (good or bad) at the AGM, to see if we need to make changes. Anyway it seems that the Montreal put up a very good fight last night and gave the Div 1 champions a real run for their money

[Colemanator]

Sorry to butt in :D

We had that system a few years ago, extra points for 2nd div teams winning legs against 1st div sides, it was a nightmare, we have points for winning legs, points for winning matches then points for 2nd div, I like your rule of giving lower teams all the breaks, I can see that can work overall and i think that that's enough. We have two divs and everybody plays each other, we have an unwritten rule about hammering players, also a 1st div player can't win the highest away break against a 2nd div player.

[JB]

Its difficult. I really dont like the 1pt per game for any teams for the following reasons.
1. A team could beat every team 3-2 and not lose a match all season and end up not winning the league.
2. Weaker and new players would not get a game
3.It favours the really strong teams

Also last night the Montreal would have got 2 points and the Tap 0. Nothing against the Mont but our team could have been played completely different and there would have been a good chance of us winning 5 0. So to me you either try and thrash div 2 teams coz you need the points or you play for 2 pts a win and have a really good night playing players that wouldnt have played.

I also think the high break suggestion is good. I think this was brought up before in a previous thread and will be discussed at our next meeting.

I also think its a bit early in the season to be expecting getting thrashed 5 0 every week. If div 1 team plays a prem team and get thrashed 5 0 (believe me weve been there) we dont say im not bothering to go out to this each week. Instead we look at it that we try and win matches against opponents in the same division and if we pick up any points against premier teams its a bonus.

After last night i really believe that div 2 teams with all 5 breaks will be taking points off div 1 teams and who knows maybe even premier.

[racehorse]

Nigel

Don't worry about anything barring trying to take points off the the marvelous Montreal at home. I think its great playing against better opposition and will only be a benefit in the long run. I think as the season goes on it will throw up a few suprises and the pressure is always on the higher team to succeed. Lets just see how it goes but im sure it will be fine. It was more soul destroying last season only playing against 4 other teams and then trying to go to new venues to play a singles match on a different table.

[NigelS]

Well I hope Gary, that the other div 2 teams take the Montreal’s attitude. I am sure you can spring a few surprises.

Having thought about it, I would probably side with Jean on not having the point per leg in the end, I have never been a great fan of it and I think her reasons outweigh the reasons for bringing it in.

Good luck for the season and I will see you at the Montreal and the Tap during the season.

[racehorse]

See you soon Nige,

You're doing a great job as it is!

Stadium A 2 - 3 Kendal.

Just a quick message from Dave Richings so no details.

A good win for a 2nd Div team against a 1st Div side.

See, it can be done.

[bigtj]

Well done to the Kendal, excellent win against 1st div opposition, and as I said in the start of this thread I believe Div two players will certainly make their presence felt. This result is the best possible start to the season ( probably not for the Stadium A ), as all Div two sides can see it is there to be done.

As Jean says we as first div. sides have certainly been on the wrong end of 5 - 0 results against premiers, and come back with the intention of it not happening again. The only thing I would say there is we have been around a while and are not just starting out in the game.

1pt per game is something I have experienced in darts and as said earlier the danger there is you can only use your strongest players therefore not encouraging others to join teams. Well done to the Albion for playing players that maybe might not have otherwise have played if 1pt per leg ( would in fact expect nothing less from great sports.) Our own captain Bill leaving himself on the sideline once the result was assured.

I personally think the idea is great for all teams and once teams pick up the odd leg or two they will feel differently. As Gary says the format for Div two was getting rather staid and his attitude is exactly the right one to make it work. Can I say that from what I saw the players from the Tap are certainly capable of winning games against Div one sides and am sure they will push us all the way when they have the advantage of all breaks at home.

[bigtj]

Nice to see comments from other sources ( thanks Colmanator ) as it is always good to have an outside viewpoint from people who have first hand experience of a system being trialed.

Nige,

Being as we are now "all in it together" and not every side has someone who posts results on this site, would it be possible for you to post a full list of results at some stage every week?

Cheers Regg3y

[NigelS]

These are the results I have so far

Brewery Tap A 4-1 Duke of Well B
Duke of Well A 1-4 Dyke B
Dyke A 4-1 Romans B
Romans A 5-0 Stadium D
Stadium A 2-3 Kendal
Montreal 2-3 Albion A
Windmill C 5-0 Brewery Tap B
Three H’Shoes bye