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Post by milko on Feb 22, 2009 15:00:51 GMT
This is for those of you who don't know the rules, their were a few who didn't yesterday in the Oxon Open!!
In my Q/F match with Kevin Hall yesterday (well played Kevin) I played a shot that I thought had no chance of potting a ball so I walked away from the table, but the ball came back and went into the 50 hole. I thought I should have gone back on, but everyone (all top Sussex players) thought that as I had left the table it was end of break.
So I will just let you know the rules that cover this;
17. A break will continue until such time as the player fails to pot a ball or plays a foul shot.
33 (vi). If during the course of play a ball remains on the lip of a hole the scorer shall decide when to call end of break in accordance with rule 21. (Player walking away from table does not determine end of break)
May I say that this had no effect on the result, because I played poorly on table 4 and was well beaten.
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Post by H on Feb 22, 2009 15:32:55 GMT
This is something that has come up in discussion recently, Keith, and it appears most people aren't aware of the official ruling - I certainly wasn't until it was first mentioned a couple of months ago.
It seems there is this common misconception, certainly over most leagues in Sussex. Perhaps we should try and spread the word on this ruling a little bit since I have found it comes into play quite commonly.
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Matt
Full Forum Member
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Post by Matt on Feb 22, 2009 16:26:42 GMT
I was chatting to somebody last week regarding an unrelated topic on rules. I will let him mention his name in case he wants to remain incognito.
The problem is that different leagues use different rules. As i discovered recently, our Horsham league uses one set of rules, whilst Sussex uses another and obviously there is then the All-England rules.
Not having played (nor intending to play) in any opens or the like, I take it there is a list of rules sent to each entrant? If not will the entrant not assume the rules are the same as their own league/competition.
Matt
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Post by Chris_Sav on Feb 22, 2009 16:48:04 GMT
A bit of a black art.
17). Member counties agree by their affiliation to abide by the association’s rules.
This AEBBA rule quite clearly states the position, yet several counties profess to have their own rules.
To me, all open competitions that are played under AEBBA affiliation must fully comply with the ABBA rules. Local rulesregarding break order etc in local competitions are OK, but the basic nuts and bolts of the game must be played to the common AEBBA rules. As Keith has found, many players have misconceptions, despite those rules being on the AEBBA site for all to see.
Sav.
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Mark James
Distinguished Member
Mark James
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Post by Mark James on Feb 22, 2009 18:58:41 GMT
I can confirm that all Sussex County competitions are played according to A.E.B.B.A. rules, as correctly stated by milko above.
Having not been present at the Oxford Open, I don't know the identity of the Sussex players who were mistaken about this rule, but mistaken they were. There is no contradictory or over-riding Sussex rule covering the situation in question.
I imagine the thinking behind the rule is, amongst other things, to prevent situations such as the following: player, on match-winning break, leaves the only object ball up against a peg with no prospect of playing a fair shot, walks away from table and says "your turn" to his opponent, thinking that in so doing he will keep his break without having to play a shot at the impossible ball....
Whilst on the subject of widely-misunderstood rules, I commonly encounter players who believe that the circumstances in which a black peg doesn't count are far more wide-ranging than they really are. The popular belief being that only the first foul counts during any single shot, whatever that foul may be, so they think that if you have a wild swipe to remove a ball from near the baulk line, the black peg won't count if a ball has gone into baulk before it falls.
Not so. The rule covering this is quite specific in referring to a white peg being felled, not any foul equivalent to a "loss of break" penalty.
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Post by Q on Feb 22, 2009 19:10:15 GMT
Not so. The rule covering this is quite specific in referring to a white peg being felled, not any foul equivalent to a "loss of break" penalty. You learn something everyday, thank you Mark, I too was under the misaprehension that 'the first foul counts'
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Post by H on Feb 22, 2009 19:22:46 GMT
Indeed. The white peg then black peg rule applies, I believe, since when a white peg is felled by a ball it alters the ball's original course, and if the subsequent movement of the ball takes out the black peg, it isn't really fair. Thats my take on it anyway
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Post by NigelS on Feb 22, 2009 22:25:02 GMT
Well I for one thought if you walked away from the table you break was ended even if a ball dropped in afterwards. My humblest apologies Keith as no one seemed to agree with you! (Although I thought it happened against Chris Reeves a match you won not against Kevin Hall - or did it happen again after I left!?!?)
I have to say though it seems many people think this is the rule and have encountered the situation many times in league games where players have walked away and ended their break and a ball has dropped in afterwards. The scorer doesn't usually call 'end of break' after every visit but I suppose once the score has been added to the scoreboard that is the point the break is over.
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Post by bobhall on Feb 23, 2009 0:08:36 GMT
no your correct nigel as i scored kevs and it didnt happen in that game as i would have let keith continue
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Post by milko on Feb 23, 2009 6:55:30 GMT
Yes you're both right, my mistake, it was against Chris and not Kevin as Dave France was the marker.
I wondered why I wasn't that angry about it, as I won anyway. :)
Thanks Nigel, but no apologies needed.
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beefy
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T
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Post by beefy on Feb 23, 2009 14:54:42 GMT
Not so. The rule covering this is quite specific in referring to a white peg being felled, not any foul equivalent to a "loss of break" penalty. You learn something everyday, thank you Mark, I too was under the misaprehension that 'the first foul counts' when I first started playing with Milhouse and the late Ray Strugess, Ray made us both aware of the fact it is first peg to fall that counts so needless to say I have tried to knock all three down but have only managed two so far !
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2009 17:54:47 GMT
I don't know if you lot remember the Bar Billiards computer game that Martin Leach did? However this exact discussion came up about the pegs. Here in Cambs it is understood that the first peg (if white) is knocked over before the black then the break score is only lost. However in Portsmouth they count the black even if hit second.
Very patchy area in different counties, can understand why some people from different areas get confused :-X ;)
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Post by peetee on Feb 23, 2009 18:07:12 GMT
You learn something everyday, thank you Mark, I too was under the misaprehension that 'the first foul counts' when I first started playing with Milhouse and the late Ray Strugess, Ray made us both aware of the fact it is first peg to fall that counts so needless to say I have tried to knock all three down but have only managed two so far ! Not good enough then are you ;D
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