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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2006 19:00:27 GMT
Is there a "shop" where you can buy Bar Billiards tables from. If so then that would be great!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2006 21:37:18 GMT
Yes there is a shop (2 or more in fact) where you can buy brand new bar billiards tables, and no - it ain't great ! ;D
The modern-day maker of tables is Supreme and they are an awful hybrid of bar billiards and pool. You recognise them from the very chunky round legs and a pool-type coin slot which gets in the way as KP will tell you. There is a cheap version retailing at £1195 which can be bought from Mercury Leisure of Cardiff and a smarter-looking one with a mahogony-finish retailing at £1495 available from Johnny 8 Ball of Manchester.
You can acquire these at discount via eBay if you are foolish enough. The cheapo one I believe doesn't even have a proper slate, the base is of MDF.
Sav is the foremost authority on tables using this forum. He owns nine of championship standard, plus a Billard Russe (200 hole missing) which he imported from France. The first thing he will tell you is "they don't make 'em like they used to." If you want a table you can play proper bar billiards on, you will need to buy one made in the 1930s or 1940s by either SAMS Brothers, Jelkes & Co, Burroughs and Watts or Riley's of Accrington. These have been maintained (re-clothed) and sometimes refurbished (polished) throughout the years.
SAMS and Jelkes are the most popular makes and League bar billiards in this country is almost invariably played on one of those make of tables. Bar Billiards Ltd of Ascot (Ken Hussey) specialise in the Jelkes variety, SAMS abound mainly in Sussex, and Jersey/Guernsey tables are Burroughs and Watts.
Sav's tournament set are all Jelkes for convenience as the legs unscrew for ease of transportation. They are also the best make though there are some who will disagree with that statement !
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Post by Chris_Sav on Aug 22, 2006 22:44:19 GMT
Sav's tournament set are all Jelkes for convenience as the legs unscrew for ease of transportation. They are also the best make though there are some who will disagree with that statement ! Including Sav!!! Jelkes are liked best by the players, but they are soooo fragile. If I could get them I would have nothing but Burroughs & Watts 9 /10 Clive
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2006 10:37:11 GMT
I'll see if I can squeeze a further half-point out of you then Sav. ;) Further points to be added as it's a minefield out there on eBay ! 1. SAMs - you can get a "narrower" version. These are more diffucult to record a decent score on. 2. Jelkes - Those made pre-war (1939 and before) are usually of solid oak and are recognisable by the round 'turned' legs. Post-war have a smoother effect (a walnut finish) and have octagonal legs. Either type can become rickety in time due to carelessness when shifting. You do not drag a Jelkes across a floor on its legs. Sav has found problems recently where the boxwood inserts that house the woodscrew of the leg have crumbled. Replacement inserts are available for the postwar (octagonal) legs but not for the pre-war (round legs). 3. Riley - the pockets sometimes have four bars round them to make the balls drop immediately - no spinning around (Kylie please take note !) They are usually banned from league matchplay as a result. You may also see these variations of our game offered on eBay : a) Joe Davis Junior (miniature table, 3ft x 2ft). Used as an executive toy - ideal for demonstrations to a captive audience ! b) Italian Bagatelle. These usually fold up into a wooden case and are a valuable antique. But there are cups instead of pockets, so the balls don't come back to you through a channel. c) Russian Billiards. These are a table-top only, with no proper supporting legs, although they sometimes come with a trestle table supplied. The fibreglass jobbie which we were discussing yesterday would just about fit into this last category.
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Post by Kevin Pringle (R.I.P.) on Aug 23, 2006 19:53:18 GMT
9.4/10 Sav's Russian billiards table has legs :D
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2006 20:44:39 GMT
plus a Billard Russe (200 hole missing) which he imported from France. Covered that in first entry, KP. Sav's Billard Russe is completely authentic and to all intents and purposes would be morphed into a SAMS were he to drill a 200 hole where one is missing. 8-) Russian Billiards tables are English-made and just table-tops, and I suppose acquired the name as 'our version' of what the game was popularly known as at the time (in the 1930's). My grandparents owned one before it was destroyed by a doodlebug during the blitz. >:( Here's a good example of one on sale at present : cgi.ebay.co.uk/Vintage-Table-Top-BAR-BILLIARDS-TABLE-1951_W0QQitemZ270021606876QQihZ017QQcategoryZ30QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem9.5 9.5 9.5 9.5 9.5 ? :P
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Post by barbelman on Sept 2, 2006 7:53:33 GMT
plus a Billard Russe (200 hole missing) which he imported from France. My grandparents owned one before it was destroyed by a doodlebug during the blitz. >:( Sav/Tommo I remember one of my schoolfriends in the 50s having a dining table with a BB table under a polished top which was lifted off to play the game. I think they were quite popular in that era - were/are they any good and who made them please? (for an extra 0.3 of a point!) They do appear on Ebay from time to time and would crtainly solve the eating problem at Reading PO..... :) cheers Tony
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Post by fazza on Sept 2, 2006 9:09:09 GMT
I think they were quite popular in that era - were/are they any good and who made them please? (for an extra 0.3 of a point!) If that is Ranking Points, I will decide if this warrants extra! 0.5 at least ;D
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2006 21:42:15 GMT
I'm too good for this place !!!
The table-tops only, Size 50 inches x 24 inches, bear a label thus: "The World Champion Joe Davis Bar Billiard Table, Made in England. Kay London"
There's also a smaller demonstration version, size 30" x 15", also with a Joe Davis signature. But both types to my knowledge only have a wooden base. I have an idea my grandad's was made by Riley's as it had a solid slate.
Don't google Kay London b.t.w. as all it will throw up is a load of pornsites. :-[
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Post by fazza on Sept 3, 2006 8:09:40 GMT
Don't google Kay London b.t.w. as all it will throw up is a load of pornsites. :-[ Clive, as if...... But how did you find out? I knew that I had seen that moustache of yours recently ;D
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2006 19:47:56 GMT
But how did you find out? How did I find out what ? (I've got to get used to this new "mellowing" Farrelly). 8-) If you mean how did I research the maker and come up with the answer Kays of London, proof can be found in the blurb for eBay item 7232018373 which went for £65 earlier in the year. Kays incidentally made all sorts of gimmicky items such as conjuring boxes, but as far as I know have not been trading in modern times. Have I now earned my extra 0.3 points ? ;D
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2006 20:04:37 GMT
Further research has thrown up a further modern maker - Thurstons - who also manufacture snooker and pool equipment. Picture here of their "Brittannia" table - which looks remarkably like a "Supreme":- www.thurstonsnooker.co.uk/othersports/cue.htmBy my reckoning I'm now up to 9.9 - but still searching for the perfect 10. ;D
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2006 20:21:15 GMT
I'm going for it in earnest, this should get me my 10.0 ! ;) www.eaba.co.uk/mags/abp/issue28/rileysTheEndOfAnEra.htmlSav will be intrigued to know that his favourite manufacturer of tables Burroughs and Watts were taken over by E.J.Riley to form Riley Burwat (-geddit ?). And that Rileys went out of business in 2002. :o * It's quite an interesting article to read, as it gives an insight into the fluctuating fortunes of the trade, and I suppose helps to explain why the lion's share of our treasured 'authentic' tables are now in private hands. As for the modern tables, I'm left wondering how many of these type actually get sold or rented out. Will we suddenly discover a thriving league in a county somewhere in the north of England where all the pubs have a 'Micky Mouse' table ? ::) * E.J.Riley enter administration in Sept 2014: www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/business/more-100-jobs-go-rileys-7778021
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Post by fazza on Sept 4, 2006 6:34:57 GMT
But how did you find out? How did I find out what ? (I've got to get used to this new "mellowing" Farrelly). 8-) I am so sorry, I was referring to your acquaintance with the porn sites. One table is the same as another as far as I am concerned. It is just down to how you play the game. But don't worry about getting used to my "mellowing image", because I have a feeling I will be back to normal soon. ;D :D ;)
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Post by fazza on Sept 4, 2006 6:37:52 GMT
I'm going for it in earnest but does Ernest know yet?????? :o :o :o
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2006 10:09:44 GMT
I'm going for it in earnest but does Ernest know yet?????? :o :o :o Well, the only Ernest I can think of who plays bar billiards is Jordan. So that might be a cryptic clue - especially as Jordan lives in Sussex. But I prefer my ladies to be natural, not silicon-enhanced. (.)(.) See - my sense of humour is similarly warped (as you might have suspected !) ;)
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Post by fazza on Sept 4, 2006 12:04:36 GMT
Oh, I found that out long ago! There are not many of us left!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2006 22:33:53 GMT
Thank god! :P ;)
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Post by fazza on Sept 5, 2006 8:02:59 GMT
A "sense of humour" gets refined with age Johnny.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2006 10:14:23 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2006 8:28:23 GMT
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Post by Chris_Sav on Oct 21, 2006 9:11:14 GMT
The last one was a narrow Sams (I think) and the other one is the make of table I have never managed to trace. They look like a Jelkes with cue holders drilled in the front. I've seen a few in the Norfolk area, so suspect that's where they originate from. The £710 narrow Sams I couldn't believe!!! there are some mugs about for a non stand rd table of uncertain condition!! A lovely Jelkes has just gone in the home counties for £640!! cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290039084771Should have made a thousand easy. Could have had another billard russe table near Calais last week for TEN euros, but I've called a halt to the project. Its a strange world!!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2006 15:30:24 GMT
I was wondering what would happen if the "big" names in Bar Billiards sold up there businesses, how would you service tables and make them?
Are there any other companies in the world that do Bar Billiard tables to the standard of a good Jelkes table?
I am worried about the decline of Bar Billiards, though Sav is doing a great job with buying some top tables, however we need a proper company, Sav can't be expected to do all Opens when he is the only one left!
This isn't the case at the moment however it could happen soon!
Just want to know what you lot think about it?
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MID
Full Forum Member
Where's my cue!
Posts: 232
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Post by MID on Nov 10, 2006 18:13:35 GMT
Most Opens have hired their tables upto now from Bar Billiards Ltd, they have recently been sold to Brian Daniels who plans to continue hiring to Opens/final's nights.
At the moment we have brought the 8 Jelkes finals tables (which we will own from Dec 06) and we have 3 back up Jelkes tables making 11 tables in all. And I think you will find its Brian taking over the majority of opens and finals nights not Chris.
Bar Billiards Ltd have not stopped dealing with tables, they own 165. And they will as far as I know continue recovering and supplying any spares, the reason why I can say this is because Ken has said if we need anything along those lines to just call him.
So at the moment I would not worry about the decline of Bar Billiards!
The facts are WE are taking bookings for 2007, and will be supplying All England tournements with the finals tables, and any other opens/finals nights that we are able to do.
2007 is the first year of many years that Brian plans to supply the tables. Brian has a list of 12 bookings so far for 2007 (some of which we still need people to contact us to re-confirm their booking and details), and these do not include any of the All-England events. Hope this will reassure you, any further questions please do not hessitate to contact me via email as I dont come to this site very often, my email address is mareirish@hotmail.com
Regards Mary
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2007 18:07:43 GMT
Just discovered from this link.................. bar-billiards.com/product.cfm.................that my own table (and margo's ;)) is an Ivor Champion one, from the following evidence: 1. The Bar Billiards (Kent) plaque. 2. The backboard; I recall Sav telling me that B-B Kent removed a lot of the ancient hinged backboards and replaced them with less obtrusive SAMS-style ones with little pegs. 3. The legs: ours are identically shaped to the ones in the lower picture. So I'll know where to go if we ever need it re-clothed. 8-)
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Post by Chris_Sav on Feb 21, 2007 22:41:52 GMT
Yes, Bar Billiards Kent used to 'Sams' their Jelkes tables, backboard, chop the slate like a Sams etc. so that they needed only one source of principal spares.
If you want to spend £240 on a recover, come and see me!!
Sav.
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