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Post by HORNBLOWER on Dec 19, 2010 16:11:26 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2010 16:54:26 GMT
Welcome Huw and hope you will enjoy the Forum.
Given a choice of the two I would reject the Bloxham one as it two inches narrower than usual (my table is 37" wide) which is detrimental to good play.
The Rochester one looks as if it has been well looked after, though, and if I were in the business (which I'm not!) I'd be very tempted to snap it up at the 'Buy it Now' price.
This is only my snap opinion, though, and others may come in with more useful tips on what to look for, questions to ask the vendor, and what to avoid.
Good luck in your hunt!
tommo
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2010 17:02:02 GMT
Just to add, there's some good provenance on the second one in the form of a green 'Tarratt Tables' sticker..........Tarratts being a Sussex firm and the only remaining table hire operator in the UK. So the chances are at some time it may have been installed in a Sussex pub and had 'proper' bar billiards played on it.
Whereas the Bloxham one has been used to play "4-Pin" (note the four mushrooms). ;)
(Dons deerstalker and pipe) And my bet it's the table from a pub called the Elephant & Castle - another pub will be losing its bar billiards table...............
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Post by bigjimsilverfox on Dec 19, 2010 17:30:44 GMT
Agreed Clive the Rochester table looks like a snip! If I had the spare cash I`d go for it! ;)
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Post by barbelman on Dec 20, 2010 14:41:19 GMT
Whereas the Bloxham one has been used to play "4-Pin" (note the four mushrooms). ;) (Dons deerstalker and pipe) And my bet it's the table from a pub called the Elephant & Castle - another pub will be losing its bar billiards table............... Only one problem with your logic, Sherlock Tommo - the table is in Bloxwich in the West Midlands not Bloxham in Oxfordshire... ;D ;D so perhaps the table IS still in the E&C after all. cheers Tony |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2010 16:28:54 GMT
Whoops!
A case of alimentary rather than elementary, dear Watson. ;D ;D
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Post by HORNBLOWER on Jan 1, 2011 13:32:05 GMT
Dear all ,
Firstly Happy New to you all and many thanks for all your replies , Im still looking but in to much of a rush , I will just bide my time and strike at a suitable time for my wallet , many thanks again regards Huw (BUZZ).
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2011 14:04:38 GMT
Happy new year, Huw.
I see the Bloxwich one went for £515.75, whilst someone got themselves a nice Christmas Eve gift of the Rochester one for £740 - although they could have saved themselves 40 quid by accepting the "Buy-it-now" option... ::) But that's the gamble you take. ;)
tommo
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Post by HORNBLOWER on Jan 1, 2011 20:08:46 GMT
Many thanks tommo ,
the crafty beggers in Rochester put the buy-it-now price up to £800 and would'nt accept £700 after I left my posting on BB site , so still looking ,one has come up in Kenilworth though starting at £200 we'll see . All the best Huw.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2011 21:55:48 GMT
Hi Huw,
Firstly I ought to point out that this board (Club Class Lounge) was specifically set up to allow private discussion which may help with purchases, and is not visible to non-members.
So leaving your postings on here should not have been detrimental to your dealings in any way, as if it was one of our members selling they would a) probably have made themselves known on here and b) not have offered a £700 Buy-it-now option for such a good table in the first place!
I have had a look at the Kenilworth one, and would not rate it more than 'average'. I do not like the look of the split in the wood in the front leg: any weakness there suggests mishandling (dragging across a room) and is bad news, sound leg adjusters being essential to a good playing condition.
Apart from that it looks like what we often refer to as a 'Narrow' SAMs, which are a couple of inches short on width, do not play like a 'normal' table, and are only good for '4-Pin' Rules.
If you're patient, a good one should come up again before too long.
Regards,
tommo
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Post by Chris_Sav on Jan 1, 2011 22:57:39 GMT
Tommo's correct in that this area is not visible to non members.
I wouldn't touch the Kennilworth one with a bargepole.
Narrow Sams variety. Front right leg does not look original, grain is all wrong, crack does not follow grain which it would in normal wood so could even be mdf veneer. Look at the layer of dust on the ball returns, been stored for a long time and not well presented, looks tired to me.
Sav
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Post by HORNBLOWER on Jan 2, 2011 8:45:08 GMT
Sorry guys I did'nt mean to emply that it was read then the price was alltered my fault (sorry) !
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2011 13:26:16 GMT
So, Huw, this must count as 'the one that got away' - as you were willing to pay £700 but not £800 and it was snatched from under your nose for £740..............How do you avoid similar happening again? :-/
I've been using eBay for five years - always as a buyer, never a seller, and with mixed fortune. Mainly transactions of around a tenner, but I did manage to buy a good quality BB table for which I paid £890.
The rule of thumb is that, as with an ordinary auction, it is the person that wins the lot is the person who wants it the most. The other important thing to mention is that 90% of the bidding activity often takes place in the last half-hour before the auction closes. So the initial 'bid prices' which can be as low as £50 don't really count for anything - it's the 'reserve price' that matters.
How I usually play it - for something I really want to land - is this:
1. I'll put in a reasonable first bid in an attempt to flush out the reserve price. It will tell me 'reserve not met' if I haven't met it, in which case I'll up my bid until I meet it.
2. Everyone has in mind a figure of the maximum they're prepared to pay, and if I've reached that figure and it still hasn't met the reserve, obviously I'll drop out and have no further interest.
3. I'll then try to become the highest bidder, which may take a few more bids, but as with 2) I wouldn't go above my own maximum intention.
4. I'll then take the option of 'watching the item' - if I get outbid, I'll immediately get a message from eBay telling me. I'll then bid again to try and stay top until nearer the end (without going overboard of course). This 'flushing out of the opposition' gives me some idea of what interest there is and what I might be up against later.
5. All the time I remain in this position (highest bidder) I'll do nothing else until 30 minutes before the auction closes. I'll then log on to eBay, banish the wife/kids/grandchildren to the kitchen or wherever and prepare for the excitement to come. ;D
6. With 15 minutes of the auction left, I'll whack in my maximum bid (no-one can see this if I am already the highest bidder, and my lowest figure still counts anyway if it ends up being the highest). This is designed to bamboozle the opposition: if they have been jockeying with you around the £500 mark and suddenly you've put in £800 it will take them quite a few bids to catch up with you, and of course there is less than 15 minutes left!
7. Sit on your hands until there is just 90 seconds left. (Bear in mind, some people have software which can keep putting in any number of rapid bids until they have reached your figure.) Then, having considered if your maximum figure is really your maximum - would you want to lose the item for the sake of a penny more? - have one last go at a bid. You may finish up paying £30 over the odds, but you could just have thwarted someone else at the last minute and landed the purchase of your dreams. 8-)
Hope this proves to be of some use, and good luck when the time comes!
tommo
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Post by Chris_Sav on Jan 2, 2011 14:21:21 GMT
I never bid even if there is a reserve until the last ten seconds
I watch the item at the death and have another window loaded with the maximum bid I am prepared to pay at the confirmation stage. Ebay will only bid what is necessary, not your maximum.
If you don't get it then fine, if you bid any earlier then ditherers have a chance to bid again and push the price up. If you want it decide what you will pay and go for the jugular at the last possible instant, about five seconds from the end on broadband.
Sav.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2011 14:51:31 GMT
I never bid even if there is a reserve until the last ten seconds Sav. There sounds a confident man. Confident in his own broadband and in his own ability to hit the right key at the right time, un-interrupted! ;D |
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Post by Q on Jan 2, 2011 23:49:27 GMT
I'm with Sav on this one.
I NEVER bid on an item until around 5 seconds are remaining, its a little like playing poker, you dont want to give your hand away.
Like Sav I have 2 tabs open, one with the item I'm watching and the adjacent tab with the 'confirm bid' window showing, my maximum bid will already be in the box so all I have to do is wait until around the 5 second mark and hit enter.
Its quite a game to see how close to the end you can get, my record is 3 seconds ;D
Oh by the way Clive, it isn't special software that people use, its a sniper website, basically they do what I do but automatically, the free ones put your bid in at around the 10-20 second mark or if you pay them they will do it around 5 seconds, that is the people (machines) that I'm trying to beat. ;D
While I'm on the subject there is a faction who are trying to change the way Ebay works, currently it is unfair on the seller, people like myself (and the snipers) bidding at the last possible moment effectively stop any other interested parties from 'upping our bid' as would happen in a normal 'live' auction. What they are trying to do is get Ebay to change the auction style to one similar to the bumblebee ones, basically the auction will have a set closing time (like Ebay) BUT... and its a BIG BUT... the auction will then only close 20 seconds after the last bid has been placed, making 'sniper' sites redundant at a stroke.
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Post by HORNBLOWER on Jan 3, 2011 8:56:54 GMT
Thanks guys , all the points said hold up but I had a budget and it was broken so I did'nt win end of , on the other hand when an item has a buy it now and you offer that price should be yours I feel , unless you are beaten to it or as in this case the buy-it-now increased by £100 out of budget so I lost Ho Hum some you do some you don't .
Regards Huw
:-PS Im not sour thats life .
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2011 10:00:12 GMT
Huw,
I can understand you being peeved at the Buy-it-now suddenly being upped by £100, that's sharp practice and I'm surprised that eBay allow it.
In those circumstances I too would have withdrawn any future dealings with that vendor.
Q,
If you read back on my post and then Sav's and take a scenario where Sav had set his own top price in his mind of, say, £1000 for a good table, he would have lost out to me if I had bid £1030.
I deal in rare vinyl records and have honed my technique over 5 years and as a consequence 'the one that got away' is now a rarity. You have to find the reserve price as early as poss. and it's no harm to push it up a bit early on to 'flush out' the opposition. The 'poker' technique would only work if you were trying to land a pristine item for only a 'few shillings' - just doesn't happen. :-/
Having said that, the situation where I would 'beat Sav' wouldn't happen, because if either of us had an interest in a particular table we would declare it on here - and not bid against each other. :P
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Post by HORNBLOWER on Jan 5, 2011 0:39:28 GMT
Thanks Tommo ,
I would do the same also , Im not one to run friends up at auction .
All the best Huw.
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Post by Q on Jan 5, 2011 14:44:10 GMT
Q, If you read back on my post and then Sav's and take a scenario where Sav had set his own top price in his mind of, say, £1000 for a good table, he would have lost out to me if I had bid £1030. Thats falling into the auction trap Clive, if you set your maximum of £1000 then that is what you should stick to, £1030 would soon creep up to £1200 and by bidding early you are not only showing your hand but bumping up the price, and after all we are all looking for a bargain. If it was an item that you wanted DESPERATELY then a theoretical maximum wouldn't really come into it. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2011 15:31:36 GMT
I think you're missing the point, Q.
If you wait until the last 5 seconds to make your bid,
a) you have no idea of the 'reserve' price: the vendor may have bumped it up when he saw a few bidders getting close.
b) you have no idea whether your 'maximum bid' has any relevance.
It's fatuous to compare eBay to a game of poker, eBay is a true auction in every sense of the word.
Obviously I would not pay £1300 for a table worth £1000 - I too would have my budget and would have a good idea of what is good value. But I might be willing to pay, say 5% over the odds, and would not have landed my own table if I had been that inflexible. When it came to it I upped my maximum bid from £800 to £1030-01p in the last minute, and despite a late flurry of bids landed it for £890.
I'm trying to help Huw here.
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Post by Chris_Sav on Jan 5, 2011 18:30:39 GMT
Sorry Clive but I'm with Bernie on this
Both your points are irrelevant to a sniper
I've decided what my maximum is and that's all I'm prepared to pay, if it's below the reserve or you pip me by £30 then that's life I was not prepared to pay more than my maximum.
What I achieve is to stop another less skilled bidder creeping the price up bit by bit in response to bids by myself and yes my max bid is rarely what I pay. That's from the experience of 500 deals.
Frankly Ebay is very poor service IMHO for the seller when there are snipers like Bernie and I around. That's why sniper sites exist. A true auction site is like Bumblebee where the auction does not close until a sensible time after the final bid as with a proper auction
Sav
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2011 23:33:37 GMT
I doubt if Huw would see himself as a Sniper or even a 'skilled bidder', Sav.
Not everyone has access to a computer 24/7, and a lot of auction 'end times' are at unsociable hours. And not everyone's network servers are so reliable that you can count on the screen going off at the vital minute. I certainly can't guarantee instantaneous response on mine - to the point where I can leave a bid to the last five seconds.
Huw genuinely wants a table for his pub, and is prepared to pay good money for a reasonable one. If he tries to become a sniper, all the tables will escape his clutches, like they have with Bernie so far. ;) ;D
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Post by HORNBLOWER on Feb 6, 2011 15:56:07 GMT
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Post by HORNBLOWER on Feb 6, 2011 15:57:59 GMT
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Post by HORNBLOWER on Feb 6, 2011 16:00:50 GMT
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Post by Chris_Sav on Feb 6, 2011 16:04:39 GMT
Modern MDF wonder, Sav is violently ill! ;D Sav |
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Post by Chris_Sav on Feb 6, 2011 16:06:43 GMT
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Post by HORNBLOWER on Feb 6, 2011 16:19:01 GMT
Sorry to make you feel ill on a Sunday Chris ! I don't particuley like a blue cloth myself :- Regards Huw.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2011 16:38:03 GMT
Now this one is interesting as Im not sure what it is!! and am thus suspicious, It's got Jelkes bits and Sams bits but appears neither! I'm making a few contacts on this Sav Agree with Sav's assessments. The Cambridge one is bog-standard.....nothing special but what a shame that it got shunned in the pub in which it was installed. The blue-clothed one looks interesting until you click on the second picture, when it is unveiled as a modern Supreme table with the horrible 'coverted pool table' look about it. First one I've seen with a blue baize, though. ::) Which leaves this one, cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160541293274......which has the 'Bar Billards Kent' stamp on it, and looks like an early attempt at the SAMS conversion that the company based in Stelling Minnis undertook on many of the Jelkes tables that had got a bit rickety. Many of these had a new job-lot of round legs fitted, but this particular one has had a set of (square) SAMS legs fitted, which seem too dark and aren't a good match for the remainder of the beautiful light oak of the table. :'( |
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