taffy
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Post by taffy on Nov 14, 2016 13:01:10 GMT
cheers Tommo well I can see a weekend in Norwich or Wellingborough in the future yep! But I can also see me going over to the Black Bear in Walsoken for a regular game too! I live twixt Sudbury and Wisbech (time wise) but I shall play on Alfred's tables as a first choice. as a borderline Fenland Swamp Donkey I fit in "rut wael" and 50p a game!
how can you go for your shots though when you lose your whole score on 2 of the 4 skittles? I don't get that? In my day everyone was knocking them in a 100 off the top cushion , I mean the 100 skittle is in the middle of the bloody game?
the 100 shot requires the cue ball over on the edge of the D and the shots requiring the whole D are: 1) red cue ball skims down the side of two skittles (200 &100) 3/4 ball on a white and goes in the central 30 for double that @60. skill!!! 2) a ball is just infield of the 20. cue ball hits 3/4 ball, object ball back and in the 100. skill!
oh well! "My" leagues rules went when the league went....! never mind!
regards
Taffy
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taffy
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Posts: 514
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Post by taffy on Nov 13, 2016 23:30:10 GMT
just to say that this evening, I went back to the Wisbech area in an attempt to visit 3 tables. the first was the Black Bear at Walsoken on the edge of town. I walked in with a fella and looked around to see a 4-pin 37" Alfred Sams.....my day was made! Nirvana!!!
so having ordered a pint I asked if 'porky' played, which he did and so I treated him to a game. the pub cue was about 12mm across and flat...not ideal but anyway, we got going. Porky showed me straight away that the red is the object ball....weird! at some point he mentioned that the ball had to be put in the middle of the D. then he told me that you lose 100 points on a skittle down on the break or a 50 skittle over. He then said that you lose EVERYTHING when the 100 falls.
interestingly, the numbers at the baulk end had been scratched out as if someone had agreed at some point that it should be 10-20-30-20-10. also but it was sadly 30-20-10-20-30 just like 3-pin, if a ball sits on a skittle spot at the end of break it goes down the hole. in my day it went back along the top of the table.
I won with 1,800 to what would have been 1,500 but for the 200 down for Porky.
what did I make of their rules? read on: red as an object ball = that means the red goes up the table for a corner pocket. if it were a 10 it would be an injustice. you want the red to go in the 50 = reward skill/danger/desire 30-20-10-20-30 = the skill should be to play the cue ball off the INSIDE of the object ball and find a hidden 30 in the middle. also, if you get a white between the 30 (in the middle)-20 you have to squeeze the red inside the white = reward = 30 x2=60. this way, you are always playing the red outwards when hitting the object ball....no good ball in the centre of the D at all times= no danger, can't take the big shots, sure just hitting a ball on the middle line is now a skill but we want to see the skill of potting a ball not touching a ball! losing 100 when.....I can live with that. now the really stupid rule: you lose all your score when you knock the 100 over = can't agree, a very bad rule. getting a ball out between 10-20 (as is now) and back in the 100 - not enough reward, I go for the 200 here if I can but who is going to bother with that rule?
so i thought most rule changes to my old Nmkt & BSE league days were wrong but liveable, the worst ones were 'lose the full score for knocking over the 100' - sorry, no! and 'using only the centre of the D'.
like this, no youngster is going to want to play the game. the games about big shots and big balls - and the balls aren't on the table.!
anyway, thanks to Porky, he reckons he has played for the Black Bear since the early 70s and had just 3 years off. the captain has played straight through..... jeeez!! the landlord reckoned that a guy comes from Wales every 6-months for the rental, the tables are under his jurisdiction having been with 'a cue above the rest' until 6 or so years ago.(not sure about that name???).
I then went to the league leaders table at the Butchers Arms in Parsons Drove. the table was another 37" Alfred Sams and like the Black Bear, they also have holes with the 4 cutaways in the hole entries (yipeee!) and they run one red and three black skittles-just as I recall them.
I went past the 6 Ringers at Levington and The Bell Inn, Murrel again but both were closed by 9.45pm.
I hope to enter that East Anglian Competition next March.
as for the Sams tables, again, how I remember them and just absolutely brilliant! what i like is the spread of the top 5 holes so that you can work the 200 hole and the 100 hole. the other tables bunch the 5 holes together and you can't make these shots. regards
Taffy
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taffy
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Posts: 514
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Post by taffy on Nov 8, 2016 9:38:31 GMT
Hello
Dave, back in the day, the worst table was at the Snailwell G & D, our 'sister village' in the North here. you merely had to tap the ball, it flew up the table, came back off the top and broke your thumb still pinned to the leather! you couldn't do ANYTHING. for young lads at the Tharp, it was a nightmare and a gauranteed 7-2 to the Dragon or some such. so anything with a bit of angle in it and shots you can 'go for' is welcome!
The cloth at the Red house is being swapped out today (Tuesday) says the landlady. Apparently it was meant to be done two weeks ago but she was out when the table men arrived. I concede that the D was a mess, and the top of the table was very, very slow but that was a change to me. After the Bay Horse the tables were relatively consistant and if you are going for big shots as I tend to do, you need table knowledge ASAP!
Also, another pleasure was the way the mushrooms stayed up and you could rattle them a bit. With skittles it seems to me, they are gone straight away, of course we can contest how close to a hole they are. back in the day, they were delicate skittles and close to the hole, any ball going around the edge and yet still going down still knocked a peg over - very unfair!! these mushrooms don't! One thing i missed was that our Sams tables had the 4 notches in the mouth of the hole and that meant you could get on with the game! why hasn't everyone gone to that system?
Dave, we'll come back to Sudbury sometime and I'd be delighted to meet you and look at the other three tables as well. We liked the Saracen's Head and the food there that much that I would add that in as well, the food was truly excellent and you 'made' your own sidedish. The Sarries stays on the agenda!!!
Come to think of it Tommo, our Southern most table had the oldest and wisest team and they were a tough nut to crack, that was the Lavenham Angel and a look on the map will show you that they are/were close to Sudbury and I recall them saying how they had a Wednesday night game and some of them played on a Tue/Thu in the Sudbury League so yes, i guess the Sudbury League was about the, it's all coming back to me now.
Just for the record, all the tables back in the day had skittles, not one had mushrooms, and you had a red over the 200 and three blacks on the other three holes and there were no white skittles. Also, you only lost all your score for the match if you knocked the 200 skittle over.
I see you like to mention the history Tommo and I come from Fordham and drink in Chippenham. Educated in Soham and with all my chums played rugby for Ely and not Newmarket so i know the Newmarket and Ely area well. Ely pubs back in the day did have a table or two but they were all three pin. I'd need to get hold of my old mate 'Skep' if I knew where he was? Skep was keen on the 3-pin and we would convert the table between the two for a bit-of-a-challenge! he'd know the Ely area.
But surely all these things come down to the people who rent out the fruit machines and space invaders? they do the pool tables as well and would probably have handled bar billiards tables as well. I have a friend at Kennett (between Newmarket and BSE) who runs 'mac automatics' and they have been going 50 years. His name is Stuart 'Knuckles' MacLaren. if you ask him about Rugby, as his nickname implies, he wasn't there and he didn't do it! LOL!!!!!!
But Stuart might know what tables they rented out back in the day? I'll catch up with him some time.
regards
Taffy
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taffy
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Posts: 514
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Post by taffy on Nov 7, 2016 20:50:21 GMT
Very kind of you Tommo, but Ali is just picking up the game and spent most of her time picking up the balls for me to put down. I like to look at the average for a game between two players. 2,000+ in 4-pin is a good score no matter which way the result went . That's just my honest opinion. I thought all 4 tables including the first one at the Bay Horse played better than 3/4 of the tables back in the day. you could give them a good slap and I think in 8 games the cue ball only ever came back over the D once.
As I say, i will make a pleasant winters session out of going to the other three locations I hope. the Black Bear (BTW) is up as 'to let'.
look Tommo, how come you have never taken over somewhere for the weekend, stuck 4 tables in a pub, camper van'd the car park and BBQ outside and had a bloody good festival? or have you!
regards
Taffy
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taffy
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Posts: 514
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Post by taffy on Nov 6, 2016 19:03:51 GMT
Also in and around Wisbech you have: - Black Bear, Walsoken
- Swan, Parsons Drove
- Butchers Arms, Parsons Drove
- Six Ringers, Leverington
Yesterday I took Ali and we visited 4 tables in the Sudbury area. As the Bay Horse is on the way into Sudbury from the Bury St. Edmunds end: we went there first, we had two lovely games in a great pub, we then had two more in The Brewery Tap, then The Saracen's Head and finally at Red House at Stanningfield. the last three tables were nigh on identical so i'm guessing whoever made one made them all. they were broad and 37" external diameter. The Bay Horse is, as you know, a little narrower at 31" ID or 34" OD? not sure who makes their table. I started with 1200,1250, then 50, 1,350, then 1,600 and 1,600. I finished with a 2,000 and about 1,200. Today we attempted to keep it going so after watching some midday rugby union we set off up into the Fens this time. The Bell Inn, Murrow = recent landlord change, landlord wants food so he removes the table between league games. a customer put me onto: The Swan in Parson's Drove. So we went in: The Swan removed the table 3 weeks ago. The Butchers was closed (by now 4pm) We went on to The Bridge Inn at Wisbech St. Mary and she removed the table a couple of years ago. The Landlady called ahead to the 6 Ringers in Leverington - no reply (mid-afternoon now) we went and checked the Black Bear in Walsoken, Wisbech but they were closed by 5pm. I'll go back and try out the Butchers, the 6 Ringers and the Black Bear sometime. A guy in the Bell Inn, Murrow said that there is a table in a social club to the North of Wisbech and a 'Steve' runs the league. There you go! Taffy
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taffy
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Post by taffy on Nov 5, 2016 10:53:09 GMT
Alfie, also reminded me of a player at the Denston Plumbers Arms who had to remove his 'hook' and used to put a cross of wood (rather like a 'X' rest in snooker) on his arm instead. He used to 'lock & load' and was ready to go! One of my mates even met his Wife 100% due to Bar Billiards. The Lidgate Star #3 got her shots potted by the Tharp Arms #2!!! LOL!!!!
as we might say round here: it was a grut laugh!
Taffy
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taffy
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Posts: 514
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Post by taffy on Nov 4, 2016 23:38:10 GMT
Yes, that was on the cards last week but the table was covered because a band was on. I think they feared a cue through the drums on the back swing!
regards
Taffy
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taffy
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Post by taffy on Nov 4, 2016 18:45:43 GMT
Just having had a chat with my friend 'Alfie' Noakes we went through them there good ol' days and had a really good laugh about them. we reckon the Nmkt & BSE League was run for a few years by a couple and the man's name was Rene (thus the french connection i spoke of) he may have been a landlord himself and we think it was somewhere in Kirtling!
Another name that came up was 'Brookesy', he could tell the tale of tales and reckoned he'd played BB for England which always gave us a chuckle! Anyway, he played over at the Hundon 'Rose & Crown' and ended up seeing quite a lot of the landlord's buxom brunette landlady wife.
It was on the front page of 'The Sun; you know the type of headline: 'Buxom Barmaid Breaks off with Brookesy' type of thing. great story and they are still an item I believe?
As for the table, yup, it was a WIDE Alfred Sams that we played on. you sent the object ball down between the 20 and the 10, let it come back, off the side and into the 50 pocket. In the meantime the Cue ball skirted round the back of the 50 skittle and if you were lucky you'd earnt 150 off a break shot. great table.....
If your Jelkes are anything like those wide Sams I'd be pleased but when we played the beauty of it was that all the tables were different and the bad thing is that all the tables were too fast and favoured too much caution.
My GF, Alison and I are off to Sudbury tomorrow lunchtime and we're going to pick up a few games in the pubs (and a bit of the Rugby I hope!).
thanks for all your help!
Taffy
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taffy
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Posts: 514
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Post by taffy on Nov 1, 2016 18:08:33 GMT
yes it was the Newmarket and BSE league, that sounds right. weird how the game has crept south like a fog? I reckon all these things come down to some-one individual really putting in the effort. someone who believes!
do you have weekend competitions with a couple/three four tables in one place?
we played with red ball at the back white at the front a red skittle and three black skittles over the 100 and 50. voluntary 200 at the end which only 30% took.
we had the finals at the Kirtling Beehive once in about 1994 and the couple that ran the league had a French Surname. In the individual finals, Our Tharp lad- Andy Pollard - made it to the final, anyway The lad from Saxon Street Reindeer was mustard and proceeded to take Andy to the cleaners! Andy was just putting balls on the top for him to pocket!
Anyway, old Louis the League secretary was scoring the game but he keeled over on the table! the game was stopped and Louis was checked over and parked in the corner. The game had been stopped and upon restarting it, Andy smashed him and won the Individual final!
The Tharp team was a young team and with the table being so nice we all went for our shots! It only worked 50% of the time. fun though! everyone else was old and from fast tables, everything was a safe 10-20-30....yawn! LOL!!!
if you know your shots it is an awesome game. it's just that the last two tables in the Tharp - nothing had symmetry.
let's say for a moment Tommo, that I don't recall the widths and we start again OK? which Sams table has a nice symmetry to it for high scoring shots?
I'll ask my mate who played in the early 70s and the early 80s.
regards
Taffy
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taffy
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Posts: 514
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Post by taffy on Nov 1, 2016 9:11:11 GMT
Hello
I've been loitering for years and finally decided to join this past week.
I used to play in the Sudbury and Newmarket league - least i think it was called soething like that? - twice, the first time was in the early 80's and the second time was the early 90s. I played for the Tharp Arms, Chippenham in CAMBRIDGESHIRE and the pub had also had a table in the early 70s too and the plaque over the table read: 'Knocker's winning shot 1974'. as the Suffolk/Cambs border is legendary for its shape in the newmarket region i can't be arsed to tell you where the tables were but we had at times: saxon street Reindeer Kirtling Beehive Dalham Afflek Arms The Marquis of Granby, Newmarket The Snailwell George & Dragon (Cambs) the above were in the North and then in the South we traveled to The Lavenham Angel Poslingfield Shepherd & Dog Stansfield Compasses Denston Plumber's Arms Lidgate Star A and B team
there were NO SUDBURY teams whatsoever - none, zilch. that or we simply had different leagues?
we played for a short time at the Flenston greyhound???
we travelled the furthest along with the G & D to matches. I was quite good and I got the leagues highest break-in-a-game for two seasons with about 2,000+ and that was on an away table both times. But i always pushed my luck! even the second time!
I loved the sheer variety of tables, that was awesome! everyone agreed that the Tharp's table was the best table to play on. it had a lovely thick beize on it and the balls didn't runaway from you.
it was an Alfred Sams table and the first table had a lovely symetry to it, it seemed wider and if you cut a nice 50 the object ball would roll just past the skittle into the 100 and THAT is symetry!
the second table, ten years later was also a Sams table - we insisted on it! but it never played the same? no symetry.
we then had a table in the pub some 4 years ago till 2 years ago and again the angles just didn't work and i forget who made it but it was a 3-pin converted....no good (not to my eyes anyway!)
the trouble with the game is that unless you are shown "the" shots, you can be pheqin hopeless at it! there is nothing to it till someone shows you the shots!
so please tell me which Alfred sams table was so nice back in the early 80s?
I'd like to ask this question.
thanks
Taffy
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taffy
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Posts: 514
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Post by taffy on Oct 30, 2016 12:29:33 GMT
Hello there!
there is no table at the Tharp Arms, Chippenham, Nor is there one at the Red Lion, Swaffham Prior. There's no table at the Kings head/Arms Wilburton either. There used to be one a year or two ago in the Afflek Arms in Dalham (south of newmarket and into Suffolk) but that has been removed in the last year or so.
regards
Taffy
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