Under 25s for Sussex ?

Feb 8, 2012 12:52:21 GMT tommo III said:

Feb 8, 2012 12:26:39 GMT enzo said:

Us young'uns don't get enough chance to play each other!

I know you managed to take part in the National Under-25s last year, Enzo, but I am surprised to see there's not an Under-25s competition for Sussex. Perhaps there should be one.

(Copied from the Inter-Area board as a possible topic for Discussion)

My records show that a competition for Under23's used to exist. Here is a list of previous honours:

1993 / 94      Wnr:Gareth Lloyd (Horsham)      R-u:Judith Skerman (Mid Sussex)
1992/93      Wnr:Steve Bungard (Worthing)      R-u:Paul Bungard (Worthing)
1991/92            not held
1990/91      Wnr:Sean Taylor (Hastings)      R-u:Paul Bungard (Worthing)
1989/90            not held
1988/89      Wnr:Dave Simmonds (L'hampton)      R-u:Steve Bungard (Worthing)

There must be a cup knocking around somewhere ?  Get Lloydy to check his loft ! ;D


[edit - correction made]

[Dunplaying]

Feb 8, 2012 13:02:26 GMT tommo III said:

My records show that a competition for Under23's used to exist. Here is a list of previous honours:

1993 / 94      Wnr:Gareth Lloyd (Horsham)      R-u:Judith Skerman (Mid Sussex)
1992/93      Wnr:Steve Bungard (Worthing)      R-u:Paul Bungard (Worthing)
1991/92            not held
1990/91      Wnr:Sean Taylor (Hastings)      R-u:Paul Bungard (Worthing)
1989/90            not held
1988/89      Wnr:Dave Simmons (Horsham)      R-u:Steve Bungard (Worthing)

There must be a cup knocking around somewhere ?  Get Lloydy to check his loft ! ;D

Yeah, I wish...... ;D Are you sure it wasn't Dave Simmonds from Littlehampton? ;)

Feb 8, 2012 13:37:30 GMT Dunplaying said:

1988/89      Wnr:Dave Simmons (Horsham)      R-u:Steve Bungard (Worthing)

Yeah, I wish...... ;D Are you sure it wasn't Dave Simmonds from Littlehampton? ;)

Aha !  I might have known, you'd have been far too young for it to have been you! ;D
Records amended.

[bigtj]

In this day where we need to attract new blood I think maybe an under 30s competition is viable within Sussex, we do have an over 50s, so my only thought is what about those between 31 and 49 do they then get their own competition.
These could be on a one day basis or preferably for my way of thinking played around the county to last eight and then a finals night. Obviously negative is fitting anything else into an already crowded schedule, price restrictions (unless a sponsor can be found), and the willingness of players to enter.

[bigtj]

Feb 8, 2012 13:02:26 GMT tommo III said:

My records show that a competition for Under23's used to exist. Here is a list of previous honours:

1993 / 94      Wnr:Gareth Lloyd (Horsham)      R-u:Judith Skerman (Mid Sussex)
1992/93      Wnr:Steve Bungard (Worthing)      R-u:Paul Bungard (Worthing)
1991/92            not held
1990/91      Wnr:Sean Taylor (Hastings)      R-u:Paul Bungard (Worthing)
1989/90            not held
1988/89      Wnr:Dave Simmonds (L'hampton)      R-u:Steve Bungard (Worthing)

There must be a cup knocking around somewhere ?  Get Lloydy to check his loft ! ;D


[edit - correction made]

Looking at the dates some of us would have been way beyond the 23 years required when this was held, but do remember it and some good names on the role of honor. There was back in the dim and distance past a Portslade?? inter league side that consisted of all under 21 players I believe

Feb 8, 2012 14:11:53 GMT bigtj said:

Looking at the dates some of us would have been way beyond the 23 years required when this was held, but do remember it and some good names on the role of honor. There was back in the dim and distance past a Portslade?? inter league side that consisted of all under 21 players I believe

I'm sure Dave Jones will be able to confirm that, TJ, as I believe he was part of it.

I also remember helping to arrange a couple of U-23 challenge matches in 1988/89 involving Portslade, and they were cracking evenings. There's reference to it on the right hand side of this page on the Horsham website:

www.horshambarbilliards.co.uk/page39.html

The topic only comes to the fore once in a blue moon, when a new crop of youngsters comes through, and we appear to be undergoing such a phase at the moment.

[davejones]

Yes, I was captain of the Portslade C Team

The idea of the C league as it was then was proposed by Portslade league was for an inter league division consisting of under 21 and players who would not normally get an inter league game.

We were all under 21 apart from one regular player who was 22 years of age.

We were playing from the Crabtree in Lancing and came second in the first year and won it the following year.

Great days indeed!

[dipper]

Dave, who was in that team, I bet there were some future champions, Jim Millward, Gary Ridley etc...

[enzo]

Well a Sussex U25's would be great for a lot of us but if not enough interest then perhaps U30s but there are a few players between 25 and 30 I can think of that would wipe us clean :) I'd happily sponsor the trophies for it too :)

[H]

There seem to be more younger players now than there were when I first started out. Not sure who falls above and below the U25 barrier though. I'm slightly over it now so U30 would obviously be preferable to me :P

[JB]

Ok heres my views. Is another competition really needed when the ones we have are not really supported that well.

This year
Captains Cup - 12 entries. (How many Captains in Sussex?)
Over 50's - 10 entries (How many over 50's?)
Mixed Doubles - 9 pairs (How many mixed pairs are played in each league in Sussex?)

My point is that if you look at it these competitions are really badly supported and I think if any other competitions were added to the calendar these would be just as bad.)

[H]

You are quite right Jean. Never really expected it to take off anyway, was speaking purely hypothetically.

This does beg the question, what can we do to drum up some interest in these other competitions?

Or, the converse, what is putting people off from taking part?

[BB Warrior]

Mar 2, 2012 15:53:03 GMT H said:

You are quite right Jean. Never really expected it to take off anyway, was speaking purely hypothetically.

This does beg the question, what can we do to drum up some interest in these other competitions?

Or, the converse, what is putting people off from taking part?

Sadly, I think it is a combination of finances, family/other commitments, finding spare time to play the matches, etc etc.... :'(

The numbers for the Captains Cup, Mixed Doubles and Over 50's Competitions have stayed at about the same levels for the past 3 or 4 years.... just about enough to justify holding the competitions, but usually the same players entering each year.

They were originally designed to be played around the County to involve more venues and, hopefully attract players from different areas to take part in the Competitions.... and this format is still popular and there have even been some people suggesting that the main Sussex Mens and Ladies Singles & Doubles Competitions revert to this format.

This year, the Sussex Mens Singles had 53 entries and the Ladies Singles had 12 for the competition played at the Hurst Club.... 65 players which is a comparable number to many of the County Opens that take place around the Country, so it would probably be fair to say that it was a successful event. 8-)

However, 198 men and 27 ladies appear on the Sussex 3 year Rankings Lists, meaning that the main competitions for Sussex players this season actually only attracted less than 30% of the overall number of players that have played in some form of Sussex based competition, whether that is Inter League, Watney Mann Cup, One Day Inter League or previous Singles & Doubles Competitions in the last 3 years. ::)

How do we get more people to take part.... anybody who can come up with the answer to that question could be holding the future of bar billiards in their hands. :o ;)

[gandalf the untidy]

Mar 2, 2012 15:46:23 GMT JB said:

Ok heres my views. Is another competition really needed when the ones we have are not really supported that well.

This year
Captains Cup - 12 entries. (How many Captains in Sussex?)
Over 50's    - 10 entries  (How many over 50's?)
Mixed Doubles - 9 pairs    (How many mixed pairs are played in each league in Sussex?)

My point is that if you look at it these competitions are really badly supported and I think if any other competitions were added to the calendar these would be just as bad.)

take the eastbourne players out and it would be a lot worse... but why so few entries, i think the over 50's and captains are great comps. wonder if transport might be a deciding factor, I persnally advised my members about these comps and its certainly only drivers that put their names forward.

Or are we leaving it to our memebers to sort the comps out themselves, or do members actually know about the comps.

reckon its just worth asking around the over 50's in particular (most captains are sensible enough to sort out their comp....well some are ::) ::)) to find out why they are not putting their names forward

ps No ladies in Eastbourne...apart from Heather ::)

regs cs

[enzo]

Mar 2, 2012 15:46:23 GMT JB said:

Ok heres my views. Is another competition really needed when the ones we have are not really supported that well.

You've got a point Jean but surely it depends on the intrest? Due to the logistical side of things, the 1 day events are the most popular and could combine events similar to AEBBA having any combination O50's U25s O30's Captains etc on one day but I appreciate it's a lot easier to think up ideas than to put them in action and is never that easy.

[BB Warrior]

Mar 3, 2012 10:18:21 GMT enzo said:

You've got a point Jean but surely it depends on the intrest? Due to the logistical side of things, the 1 day events are the most popular and could combine events similar to AEBBA having any combination O50's U25s O30's Captains etc on one day but I appreciate it's a lot easier to think up ideas than to put them in action and is never that easy.

Based on the entries for the existing competitions, I don't think that the costs involved with table hire and the difficulty finding a suitable venue would not make it a viable proposition to run an additional one day competition.... even if an Under 30's competition was added to the agenda. :-/

To pick up on the points made by Jean earlier on the thread...

Mar 2, 2012 15:46:23 GMT JB said:

This year
Captains Cup - 12 entries. (How many Captains in Sussex?)
Over 50's    - 10 entries  (How many over 50's?)
Mixed Doubles - 9 pairs    (How many mixed pairs are played in each league in Sussex?)

My point is that if you look at it these competitions are really badly supported and I think if any other competitions were added to the calendar these would be just as bad.)

According to figures shown elsewhere on the Forum....

There were 115 teams based in 10 Leagues around Sussex last year.... but only 12 Captains entered the Captains Cup. :'(

In Seniors Cups, there were 18 entries this year in Worthing League, 9 entries in the Brighton League Competition and 16 entries in the Horsham League competition.  I don't have figures for other Leagues, but that is 43 entries in 3 League Competitions.... yet only 10 entries for the Sussex Competition. ::)

In Mixed Doubles, 11 entries in Worthing League, 9 entries in both Brighton and Lewes Leagues and 8 entries in Horsham League, I don't have the information for other Leagues but that is still 37 entries in 4 Leagues (although some players may have played in more than one of these competitions) in comparison to 9 pairs in the Sussex Competitions. ::)

Possibly it is a lack of time to fit more games in, or maybe some people don't want to travel around the county to play games at venues that can be 30-40 miles away.... or maybe there should be more publicity (away from the Forum) about the events. ???

However, there have been posts on other threads that seem to indicate that the players who enter the Captains Cup and Over 50's prefer the format of playing at various venues around the County to a "One Day" Competition, so I don't think we should change that format unless a lot more people say that they would enter if it was a One Day Competition.... but how do we find out about that?

It would probably be possible to either fit the Mixed Doubles or Under 25/30's Competition into the format on the day that the Sussex Mens and Ladies Doubles are played at the Hurst Club in January.... personally I think it would make more sense to keep that day for doubles matches, but would we gain or lose any entries for the Mixed Doubles by doing that?

I do have an idea of how an Under 25/30's could be played in combination with another Sussex Combination in a One Day Format, but I am waiting to get responses from other SCBBA Committee members to seek their views before I take this any further. ;)

Feb 8, 2012 14:46:02 GMT tommo III said:

I also remember helping to arrange a couple of U-23 challenge matches in 1988/89 involving Portslade, and they were cracking evenings. There's reference to it on the right hand side of this page on the Horsham website:

www.horshambarbilliards.co.uk/page39.html

The topic only comes to the fore once in a blue moon, when a new crop of youngsters comes through, and we appear to be undergoing such a phase at the moment.

In the early part of this thread I made the above post.

It's taken a long time to happen, but there is once more a sudden profusion of keen youngsters. This is great to see, and IMHO these players need to be encouraged.

But a different approach needs to be taken before SCBBA could re-introduce a competition last staged in the last century, which might attract a limited entry due to a myriad of factors.

Enzo says: "Us young'uns don't get enough chance to play each other!"

Okay then, organize your own East Sussex v West Sussex Friendly Challenge for yourselves.

Get up two 5-a-sides (or 6-a-side or 7-a-side) to play each other Home and Away at two selected venues, one in each half of the County.

E.Sussex = Hastings/Eastbourne/Lewes/Brighton/Mid-Sussex
W.Sussex = Horsham/Billingshurst/Worthing/Littlehampton/West-Sussex

Just like we did all those years ago in the Portslade v Horsham challenge.

So many benefits came of this.......a composite team of players from these two sides went up to Northants a year later and won an All-England challenge match against the North. And the SCBBA Under-25 Competition came about as a result.

There is already an equivalent bunch of youngsters coming through in Northants, Oxon, Berks and Hants ready for the ultimate challenge !

You have to do this NOW while you are still young enough !

Many of the young players from that era mentioned made it at the top level and are still playing today (Lloydy, Micky Fairs, Sean Taylor, Dave Simmonds etc)  

[mikedaw1985]

I was only told about the Sussex singles and doubles about a week before the event and that was because Gandalf (Colin) and a few of his team mates were asking if we were available to play, unfortunately I was working that weekend but had I known earlier I would have booked the day off. In our Hastings league we had no idea when the competition was, as not many of us are on the forum. Saying that we probably wouldn't have many entries maybe 3-4 of us.

In terms of the under 25/30's sounds like a good idea but again it is an issue for many about travel. Cost of travel is also expensive even with economical cars and if I were to play away matches in places like Billingshirst, Horsham and Chichester, thats a long journey to the other side of the county for a couple of games and then go home. That would be about 3 hours travelling time both ways from Hastings. A one day tournament would be easier in that respect. Although I would only qualify for under 30's as i'm currently 26.

With interleague your there for an evening with your team so its seven matches your staying for and usually the driving can be shared around a bit. Plus they are set dates so you know when they are and maybe plan for them if required.

[BB Warrior]

Mar 3, 2012 12:12:15 GMT mikedaw1985 said:

I was only told about the Sussex singles and doubles about a week before the event and that was because Gandalf (Colin) and a few of his team mates were asking if we were available to play, unfortunately I was working that weekend but had I known earlier I would have booked the day off. In our Hastings league we had no idea when the competition was, as not many of us are on the forum. Saying that we probably wouldn't have many entries maybe 3-4 of us.

Hi Mike,

Sorry to hear that you didn't know about the event.... the dates for the Competition were initially put on the Forum on 12th October 2011 and entry forms were both emailed out to all the known contact addresses that we had and links put up to entry forms on the Sussex Website.  Obviously, the messages didn't get through to everybody, but it's hard to know how we can publicise the events any more than that.... ::)

I think it is fantastic that we are now hearing more about what is happening in both the Hastings and Eastbourne Leagues and sincerely hope that people such as Gandalf and yourself will continue to be great ambassadors for your Leagues and be able to provide information about future events and competitions throughout both Sussex and the Country to other players who are not members of the Forum.... or, even better, get them to sign up as members themselves! ;D 8-)

If you need any information about any of the events and competitions that are coming up around the County, please feel free to get in touch with me and I will be happy to help.

Best wishes,

Dave Ingram
Vice-Chairman SCBBA (and general big mouth on the Forum! ::) ;D)

[mikedaw1985]

Cheers Dave, hopefully next year we can get a few more of us there as we only had Bob Osbourne make it this year. I'll have to check the sussex website more often and hopefully I'll see the info there.

[nipper]

just read the comment on e-sussex vs w-sussex youngsters i think its a great idea. lets make it happen

There's been a development since that, Nipper, check out the thread started by BB Warrior entitled Sussex Under 30's Competition ;)

[nipper]

thank you  ;D