Pegs Stolen at Bournemouth

[Chris_Sav]

This is the place for follow-up comment on the announcement made by Phil Hawkins.

Please remember this is for objective opinions on the way forward requested by the AEBBA chair. Any abusive comments will be treated with the normal disciplinary rules that are enforced on this forum.

We are awaiting further specific cctv footage from the Queens to see if anyone else is implicated.

Sav.

I found it funny, they would't have done it maliciously.

[Chris]

Dear Chris

I do not feel this should be up for comments.

We cannot take away the anguish of Dave Alder who had to try and get the tables sorted, those that tried to help such as Dave Cooke looking to buying dowel to replace, and Kev for replacement pegs by having some driven from Littlehampton...those that searched all day.

The AEBBA committee should determine the outcome, they ran the event, they suffered if any, grief re players.

I personally feel that we should abide by their decision. I certainly cannot see a humourous side for those that were organising.

Chris

[Chris_Sav]

Phil asked for comments in his statement, hence this thread.

It was also set up to pre-empt anything caustic,


If AEBBA wish it closed then I will happily close it.

Chris

[BB Warrior]

Mar 28, 2012 21:09:35 GMT lewisstrat26 said:

I found it funny, they would't have done it maliciously.

As somebody who was actually there, I can't say that I found it very amusing and I am both shocked and disappointed that it was people taking part in the competition that were responsible. >:(

It could have been treated as a joke had the people involved handed the pegs back at the last minute before the competition started, they were given ample opportunity to do that.... but they obviously chose not to.  Only they will know why they did that.

I would agree with Chris....

Mar 28, 2012 21:31:54 GMT Chris said:

We cannot take away the anguish of Dave Alder who had to try and get the tables sorted, those that tried to help such as Dave Cooke looking to buying dowel to replace, Hayley and Kev for replacement pegs by having some driven from Littlehampton...those that searched all day.

The AEBBA committee should determine the outcome, they ran the event, they suffered if any, grief re players.

I personally feel that we should abide by their decision. I certainly cannot see a humourous side for those that were organising.

On a local level, the Sussex County Bar Billiards Association (SCBBA) will also be making further investigations as it was one of our members that was involved and their actions do not reflect well on either Sussex County or the game itself.

We understand that further investigations are being carried out by the AEBBA and await the outcome of these together with the decision of what action will be taken by AEBBA.

Dave Ingram
Vice Chairman, SCBBA

[chellster]

Hi

Before the rumours get to heavy I would like to make my own statement on this subject.

I received a phone call from my secretary to inform me that I had been found taking the pegs from the tables.  I have absolutely no recollection of this but obviously CCTV doesn't lie therefore it must be true.  Anyone who knows me would know that I would never deliberately hurt my beloved game maliciously. I am absolutely mortified by my actions and trust me no one could be more ashamed of me than I am myself. I am very very sorry for the trouble caused by this and will do anything to try to put this right.  Chris you are right there is nothing funny about this for the organisers and I know from personal experience how much hard work goes into these tournaments.  

I am making a public apology and will personally apologise to everyone affected by my actions.  I have no defence other than I had consumed far too much alcohol and had ignored medical advice not to drink on my current medication - again totally my fault.  I have let down the committee my friends and myself and am totally embarrassed and ashamed of myself.  Had I realised what I had done I certainly would not have shown my face again that weekend but was totally unaware that  I was responsible.  I have sent a personal e mail to dave and phil and cannot think of anything else to say except I am very very sorry.  

I will obviously accept any decision made by the committee.

Sincere apologies to all.



Chelle x

[bobhall]

in my eyes an apology has been made and we need to let this go i know this was not right but like michelle said she is sorry and what more can we do but accept this.

p.s having spoken to chris he cant remember it but he did say he was sorry if he did it he doesnt remember doing it as he was drunk but i think we can learn from this and if im honest i dont think they will do this again.

i dont want to see any one banned maybe community service we can make them score when ever were short have them clean pockets at the next open and balls ensuring all score cards are to the table

many thanks

bobhall

[Oaks]

Thanks bobhall. Wow I have just herd about this to night and not shore where I stand on it I do not reamembed this atall but would like to start by say how trowly sorry I am to thos who had to trave and put them selves out to get peds really can't put in to words how sorry I am to them. I awiat a phone call from the aebba were I will apologise and try to make it up to the league as much as possible. I of corse do not want to be banned from Bb or kicked out of any comps. I agree thet alcohol is not the best excuse but when you do not reameber a thing it's hard to believe it and makes it hard to come clean on the day and say were they are if you don't remember putting them there. Would like to see the CCTV to see what happened and y.


Massive apoligys to all thos who were effected.

Chris Oakley.

Sorry for my bad spelling.

[Chris_Sav]

My personal opinion is that this is a prank (and I do not find it funny) gone terribly wrong due to intoxication. I cannot believe that two players intended to permanently remove the pegs and cause complete mayhem.

Both people implicated have now apologised and they have to live with that shame and embarrassment when meeting the bar billiards community. That, I consider, is sufficient retribution for what happened. Many of us, myself included, have perpetrated stupid alcohol induced pranks. I was nearly thrown of Jersey a few years ago due to trashing a room at the hotel and other pranks and somebody took offence.

I make no excuse for the actions but see no benefit from punitive remedies.

Chris Saville

I tend to agree with Sav that the shame of exposure is in itself quite a considerable punishment in itself.

There is mitigation in the fact that both have been very quick to hold their hands up and offer public apologies.

Also, the pegs weren't actually stolen - a better term would be 'misappropriated'. Stolen suggests for personal gain, and there is no hint of a suggestion of that.

A positive that has come out of this is the resourcefulness displayed by certain people (Dave Alder, K.T., Dennis Atkins etc) to circumvent the problem.  

[enzo]

Maybe Chelle and Chris should get some kind of drinking ban in future?! That's a strong punishment.

As most have realised, there was no malice in their actions and their idea of it being humorous probably wore off before their hangover did.

However I do wish they had swallowed their pride and produced the pegs sooner, it would've saved a lot of hassle. As tommo says, credit is due to the efficiency of the people who got the tournament back on its feet.

[bigtj]

As somebody who has been known to have one or two and get up to all sorts of things in by gone days, Ihave always faced the conseqe=uences for my actions, and although late in owning up I do feel it is a prank that went terrible wrong.

Both have had th decency to publically apolgise and prehaps a warning as to future conduct might be applicable, they will have to live with their shame and that sometimes is the worst sort of punishment. Lets not drag this out and take away from what was still a great tounament, as usual well run, good venue and always great to see many new faces there.

[Sami Sheard]

I know everyone is going to think that I am just sticking up for my Mum but believe me I am really disappointed with what's she done and I was the first to tell her what an idiot she was!

Take it from someone who knows her and seen how this has affected her over the past couple of weeks she is thoroughly embarrassed by her actions and although she may have found it funny at the time she defiantly doesn't now!

I feel that banning someone who has done so much for the game would do more harm to it than good! She Works hard for the league over here and when she had her pubs in England was always more than willing to go above and beyond to help out in every way she could. I don't think she should be cast out for one silly prank.

I think a more fitting punishment would be a curfew of 12am which I am more than willing to enforce when I am there as she knows not to argue with me. Also then she might finally be on time and fully dressed for her first game!

I know people out there at the moment are baying for her blood but I think they might be making it slightly personal it really shouldn't need to go that far trust me no punishment will make her feel worse than the embarrassment of her turning up to the next tournement.

[Ice Man]

At a time when Bar Billiards in general is losing players, teams and league's on a frequent basis should we really be looking to persecute people for acts of drunken stupidness that didn't intentionally set out to harm or cause offence to anyone?  Both parties concerned have apologised for their actions and both feel extremely embarrassed by what they have done and for the commotion their actions caused the following morning.

Yes acts like this should be punishable but within reason.  Giving lifetime bans out for something that was only intended to be a funny prank at the time, that only caused around one hour's worth of disruption to the competition is a little bit excessive.  If the tables had suffered malicious damage then this would be a different matter altogether.  Removing pegs from tables and placing them in another room is not the funniest thing ever nor is it excusable but a punishment within reason should be considered instead of jumping the gun and dishing out lifetime bans.

Whatever punishment the AEBBA see's fit to give to both parties concerned in this should only be applicable to AEBBA events.  Events outside of the AEBBA's jurisdiction should be of no concern to them nor should any punishment handed out by the AEBBA be forced upon other jurisdictions to the players concerned.

Several more than reasonable possible punishments have already been suggested on this thread and should be given consideration over and above life time bans.  Personal opinions on the players involved should also not come into this discussion and only their actions at the time be debated over and not whether people like them or not.

All in all I feel that life time bans for both players would be outrageous and would only add to the decline of Bar Billiards in general.  Let’s all be serious here, within the next 5 years or so will Bar Billiards even be getting played any longer??

Iceman, I'm confused.........

Twice in your epistle you've drawn reference to 'lifetime bans'.

I would like to know where this came from, as it certainly hasn't orginated from the Forum. :-/

[Sami Sheard]

No not on proboards but 'I will make sure she never picks up a cue again' has been thrown around! A couple of people are making it there personal mission to get her kicked out of everything due to personal vendetta's which is completely out of order!

[dipper]

I think we should move on from this silly drunken prank, I am sure at one time or another we have all done something we are not proud of and look back in horror.
Lets forgive and forget,they are obviously very embarrassed by it all, and have said so.

I don't know who these people are, Sami.

Look back over this thread and you will see six messages with a tolerant leaning - seven now including Roger's.

This affair has cause a few skeletons hidden away in cupboards to rattle. My own youthful misdemeanors whilst under the influence of alcohol include the climbing of a 250ft crane, hurling a road lamp thus setting light to a field of corn (fortunately next to the Fire Station), and walking over the top of a VW Beetle to leave footprints in the snow.

I'm mortified by these when looking back now, but this just supports the view that none of us are perfect.

[Chris_Sav]

This thread was asked for by the Chairman of the AEBBA to canvas opinions on any punishment.

I see no requests for a hangman's noose at present on this thread.

The AEBBA decision will be made by the members of the AEBBA committee and no one else, this forum included. A punishment can ONLY affect AEBBA competitions. Chris Oakley is a Sussex player and Sussex my wish to take a look at him at a county level, though he was not representing Sussex at the competition in question. Similarly Jersey may wish to look at Michelle.

Thus no one association has power to impose a lifetime ban from bar billiards in general. There are bound to be both extremes of opinion in beer talk but that does not make an AEBBA decision.

Sav.

[milhouse]

Well said Sav

[Sami Sheard]

Have a look at my post I said NOT on proboards

[chellster]

Sami is not referring to pro boards but someone trying to cause trouble. I agree that it can only be decided by aebba and will await this decision.  Sami and janes are just pointing out that this should be decided neutrally and not by a one man crusade which I totally agree with.  I would like to thank everyone for their private messages of support and totally understand why they don't want to go public. As I have it is for aebba to determine and hope this ends any unnecessary trouble.

Chelle x

Obviously passions were raised high with this whole episode but what is done is done. Nothing can change what happened but apologies were offered to those who were impacted. In truth, not that many people were actually inconvenienced.

Rather than this drag on relentlessly, may I propose to the forum administrators that this matter now be closed? This will ensure that no further misunderstandings can prosper through I'll considered words posted here.

Sorry if I have overstepped the mark.

[Sir Chancelot]

I think it is time for the AEBBA to make an official statement/decision and not drag this on any longer.
Two factions are clearly forming and the longer the wait, the deeper the divisions will be.
We have to own up, put up, and move on.
The game is bigger than this situation and time will heal.
Lets not have a problem where there are atmospheres that distract from the usual fun and the competitive Opens.

[bigtj]

Agree totally with those above that this thread is now continuing to long and decision time is needed. The longer it goe son the more we take away the main part of all our reasons for playing the camaradre, social times, and because of the actions of the people running the event we still hada most enjoyable weekend, that in the end was run smoothly with slight delays to the schedule.

[barbelman]

As Chris has said it's totally up to the All England committee to decide any further action but, by definition, they are spread all over the country and do not meet very often.

Maybe a little cooling-off period is what's needed to dissipate the initial anger felt on discovering the deed on the Saturday morning.  Both guilty parties are very nice, friendly and committed bar billiard players and have fully accepted their guilt and shame at their actions and I am sure that the AEBBA will come to a fair decision, given a decent period of time for reflection on the reality of the situation.  

As Tommo says, we have ALL done daft things in our time....now - about that corn field... ;D

cheers
Tony

[milhouse]

Tony is correct, the AEBBA need time to think about things and not rush into a decision.
At the time, my initial reaction was that if it was a bar billiard player involved then they should get a lifetime ban from all AEBBA competitions.  Now thinking about it, that seems harsh, so it's a good job we didn't meet straight away!
If people think this is dragging on, then just stop talking about it on here, it will only keep dragging if people keep posting.....

[barbelman]

Apr 3, 2012 18:11:15 GMT Chris_Sav said:

This thread was asked for by the Chairman of the AEBBA to canvas opinions on any punishment

See above, Mark ;)

Tony

[Sir Chancelot]

I have never heard of a Governing body canvasing for punishment suggestions.
They have shot themselves in the foot for doing this, from a legal point of view if someone wanted to go to court over this.

Is the FA going to have an Online vote from all registered football players for suitable punishment for John Terry if he is found Guilty of Racism ?

In my Opinion, the members of the AEBBA have probably made up their minds individually what to or not what to do.

The longer this drags on, the more blurred decisions will become.

I am sure most players will agree with my earlier posting, that the game of Bar Billiards is bigger than this incident, and at the end of the day, we all have to move on, whether we like it or not.

Yes the "incident" affected many people greatly at Bournemouth.
But I can see no reason why it should affect the smooth running of future Opens.
 

[triplex]

Sorry but i can not believe all the fuss which is being made over a drunken mistake which all of us have done in the past.

I am sure it was only BB pegs taken and not the crown jewels ::)

Time to close this thread as i think there are so much more things in life to worry about.

I am sure the AEBBA will take care of it. ;D