Div 3 Winners Dilemma

[enzo]

Dear The Officers & Committee of the B&DBBL.

My team, the Blue Lagoon, has requested that I formally address you initially regarding the winners of Division 3 and the issue surrounding this.

We, as a team, appreciate that the Committee had to make a decision one way or another regarding the outstanding match against the Duke of Wellington for which you awarded a 5-0 loss against us and regardless of fault and the circumstances involved, little effort was made to rearrange this game. We note now that a split point option was not offered nor discussed as an option.

We also appreciate the Montreal's concerns that the match that was cancelled numerous times by the Bib & Tucker B directly affects the outcome of the league positions more specifically the winner of the division. We have always intended on playing this match and would be unsportsmanlike not to do so even though we have already had our title chances affected by a decision earlier in the year to award the 5-0 win to the Duke of Wellington and we are in a position to demand the same be done to the Bib B team and ourselves be awarded the 5-0 win but as of yet have not exercised this right.

Toni Hunt has spoken to me on several occasions regarding this and was demanding this be played, threatening that should it not be played, the game will be declared a draw and both ourselves and the Bib B be awarded 1 point each, resulting in the Montreal winning the division and the Blue Lagoon runners-up. We as a team feel this is an unfair way of determining a league especially due to the fact that we have 'lost' a game without it being played as mentioned above where these points were not split in similar fashion.

I have personally endeavoured to arrange this game with Darren Robins on countless occasions via phone calls and texts including the most recently where negotiating a date and time to suit both teams proved very difficult indeed especially seeing as the regular season had technically finished and several members of my team had other commitments as well as competitions and opens to attend. We note that our opposing team also had nights they could not play for similar reasons, namely pool.

A date was arranged where we both felt our teams could play on a Friday and included one member of our team postponing a weekend trip to play and I'm sure there was some rearranging on the other team also. To our disappointment, the Bib B cancelled this date once again, the night before the arranged date I add, and finding another date before the presentation night was not possible for both teams.

Due to this, we feel that we should be awarded the game and if the committee feels that the points must be split then we have another problem, as stated above, being that as the game was not played and was under similar circumstances, we should split the points with the Duke of Wellington not give all of them away. The committee would not be acting with due diligence if they were to act differently in 2 similar situations in terms of awarding points just because it directly influences a league result. We had a cracking last game vs the Montreal and both teams knew the importance of this match and was affectively the final/decider. My team are now both upset and angry that this victory may be in vain.

We await a response from any officer or committee member who enlighten us as to where we currently stand.

Lorenzo Hickman

[Chris_Sav]

It is with great unease that I read this post. This matter can only be resolved by the relevant committee. An advice of what has been sent to the committee could be posted on this forum, but this is asking for another upset. It cannot be decided here.

I am prepared to leave this thread open for comment for the present but, be warned, if insults start flowing then so will the bans.

Sav.

[BB Warrior]

This is not a matter that should be raised on the Forum.

Your letter should have been sent to the League Secretary and Results Secretary of the Brighton League before the end of the season and then discussed at a Committee Meeting.... not left until nearly 7 weeks after the season has ended (last fixtures were due to be played on 2nd May!) and then suddenly bought up 4 days before Presentation Night! ::)

As you must have been aware, this matter was discussed at the Committee Meeting that was held on 4th March, the decision of which was posted on the Forum:-

Mar 5, 2012 18:11:36 GMT BB Warrior said:

At a Committee Meeting last night, the following decisions were made in respect of the outstanding matches....

Blue Lagoon v Duke of Wellington (Postponed from 09/11/2011)
Match Awarded 5-0 to Duke of Wellington.

Atlas v Bib & Tucker B (Match not played on 18/01/2012)
Match awarded 5-0 to Atlas

The following games are to be re-arranged and played before the last series of League games which are due to take place on Wednesday 2nd May 2012:-

Blue Lagoon 3 Romans 2 (Played on 28/03/2012)

Albion v Blue Lagoon (Match not played on 22/02/2012)

Bib & Tucker A 2 Bib & Tucker B 3 (Played on 28/03/2012)

Bib & Tucker A v Romans (Match not played on 29/02/2012)

Blue Lagoon v Bib & Tucker B (Match not played on 29/02/2012)

Please would Captains of all Teams involved make contact with their opposition as soon as possible to re-arrange these games at the earliest opportunity. ;)

That allowed you almost 2 months to rearrange these matches and stated that they had to be played before the end of the season.  From your message, it would appear that the League Secretary (Toni Hunt) has made every effort to allow you to play the match and has informed you of the how the matter would be dealt with if the game is not played.

The Committee decisions were clearly made several months before the end of the season and it is therefore unreasonable for you to imply that the Committee would make a decision "just because it directly influences a league result". >:(

A few points here, Enzo.

1. Firstly, your post is addressed to the Officers & Committee of the B&DBBL. I trust that you have followed the usual and proper procedure of sending the Original letter to their Secretary or Chairperson using the Royal Mail.

2. This then reduces your missive on here, the Forum, to a 'Copy' inviting open discussion.

3. Providing such a copy lays your League's business open for any Tommo, Dick or Harry to see, and as such counts as "airing dirty laundry in public". Accordingly, should the forum staff receive a complaint from that League, we shall become immediately obliged to move the whole topic away, out of visibility.

4. The tone of your open letter is quite inoffensive in nature, and has already prompted a matter-of-fact reply from a B&DBBL delegate, the (invisible) BB Warrior. (Come on, Dave, this is the very reason why you should not remain in "self-imposed exile" - you're not fooling anyone !)

5. So in the spirit of responding to an open letter - my observation is that, without going into the rights and wrongs of your case, ANY League's playing season finishes with its Finals Night - period !    Brighton has already had its Finals Night, so all league results for the 2011/12 season have long since been done and dusted:   Now it's all just ancient history !  

[BB Warrior]

Jun 18, 2012 13:58:56 GMT tommo III said:

4. The tone of your open letter is quite inoffensive in nature, and has already prompted a matter-of-fact reply from a B&DBBL delegate, the (invisible) BB Warrior. (Come on, Dave, this is the very reason why you should not remain in "self-imposed exile" - you're not fooling anyone !)

My reply looks very "visible" to me Tommo..... ;D .... but I would agree with all of the points that you make. ;)

(PS. And you know the reason that I am no longer as "involved" on here as I used to be. :-X)

[davejones]

Brighton league rules state that

"B19.     If due to exceptional weather conditions a league match cannot be played the Executive Committee have the discretion to have this league match played at a later date.  Where, by mutual agreement, teams wish to postpone a fixture the consent of the Results Controller or the League Secretary must be obtained at least one week prior to the proposed postponement.  If a postponement is granted the date of the replay must be agreed with Results Controller or the League Secretary at the time of the postponement.  Normally games should be completed either prior to or within four playing weeks of the original specified date of the fixture.  All fixtures, irrespective of the foregoing, must be completed by the last date allotted to League fixtures within the season.  Failure to complete a fixture within the specified time will result in the match being declared void."

I wonder if either team contacted the results controller or the league secretary prior to the postponement!

[Dave Anscombe]

After reading Enzo's post I wondered WHY he had not written this post to the BBBL Committee. As others have said above "a league season finishes at their leagues finals night", the same applies to the BBBL. If Enzo had a grievance against any decision, or decisions, made or not made, by the committee then it is up to him and his team to bring the matter up with, or before, the BBBL's final committee meeting. This will allow any decisions regarding the outcome, in Enzo's case the Division 3 final table, to be made.

As it appears you have not sent a copy of your post to the secretary of the BBBl and just put this post out for "all and sundry" to read you have called into question the integrity of both the BBBL. Committee and its members.

And finally, Enzo, I think you have "missed the boat" on this one and accept the final table as it stands and put this season down to experience. Good luck for next season.



[slight tone down by tommo]

[enzo]

Jun 18, 2012 12:15:51 GMT BB Warrior said:

Your letter should have been sent to the League Secretary and Results Secretary of the Brighton League before the end of the season and then discussed at a Committee Meeting....

Jun 18, 2012 21:57:29 GMT Dave Anscombe said:

After reading Enzo's post I wondered WHY he had not written this post to the BBBL Committee.

This is a copy of the letter sent to the committee, maybe I should have made that clear.

Sav - This is not meant to upset, and is not necessarily a reflection of my own personal feelings but the whole team collectively that are to be honest very upset indeed, more so than I.


Dave Ingram - This letter could not have been written the 7 weeks ago you say it should have been as there was no need for it as the understanding was that the game was going to be played and nothing had been said before Brighton Finals night that we would not be awarded the point as the Duke of Wellington did and they made no effort at all to rearrange and simply wanted the points but as it was technically our fault we accepted it. You are taking what I said out of context, I am not saying that by 'allowing' us the 2 months to play the game that this directly influencing the results, I am saying that the awarding of points is not consistent because this time it has a bigger impact on final league standings.

Tommo - There is nothing in any rules stating I cannot copy a letter addressed to the Committee on the forum for open discussion but I agree if it caused to much upset it should be locked.

Dave Jones - Agreed, there are 3 or 4 other rules similar to this that the Committee has waved at us before in the case of the Duke of Wellington game as justification for awarding 5-0 against us but this has not been done in this case, this is the point I am getting at. The end of the rule you extracted it stated the match would 'become void' where in fact it didn't in the case of the Duke of Wellington game so why should it with this game?

Dave Anscombe - You are quite mistaken if you think this thread was started with ill intentions solely to upset and have jumped to the premature conclusion that I have not sent this letter to the BDBBL. On the contrary, Dave, I believe I have not 'missed the boat' as it is not I alone that am writing this letter and seeing as the Committee has not said anything about it we had little other option. However I agree with all of the above that this should have been sorted before the end of the season but as Dave stated the secretary extended this period indefinitely therefore this ruling becomes null and the league tables are not final and we have not received any information to contradict this.

[BB Warrior]

Jun 19, 2012 10:15:44 GMT enzo said:

However I agree with all of the above that this should have been sorted before the end of the season but as Dave stated the secretary extended this period indefinitely therefore this ruling becomes null and the league tables are not final and we have not received any information to contradict this.

Enzo... a brief correction to this point, I quite clearly stated that the match had to be played before the end of the season, which was the decision by the Committee, the period was not extended indefinitely. :(

[little legs]

How long have we had a division 3 ?

[BB Warrior]

Jun 19, 2012 22:04:18 GMT little legs said:

How long have we had a division 3 ?

Well spotted Kev.....! ;D

I think it was last played in 2004/05.... so I guess that it's definitely too late to complain about who won it or finished as runners-up now! ::) ;D ;D

[enzo]

Dave - I was not present at said committee meeting therefore if the Secretary advises me differently then I must take this to be an authorised decision. I should have included this in my letter - I would like to have a look at the minutes of the last few meetings as we only hear things weeks later and have no idea what the Committee are deciding until it's too late.

Kev - Yes indeed, apologies Brighton only has Division 2!

[BB Warrior]

Jun 20, 2012 7:59:51 GMT enzo said:

Dave - I was not present at said committee meeting therefore if the Secretary advises me differently then I must take this to be an authorised decision. I should have included this in my letter - I would like to have a look at the minutes of the last few meetings as we only hear things weeks later and have no idea what the Committee are deciding until it's too late.

Kev - Yes indeed, apologies Brighton only has Division 2!

Enzo.... your Dad (Pete) was at that meeting and is part of your team.... so I really can't understand how you can say that you didn't know about the Committee decision until "weeks later" and only when "it's too late"?  Especially as the post I put on the Forum.... which appears to be your preferred method of communication.... the day after the Committee meeting clearly showed the decision of the meeting! :P

I do not know what you mean by the Secretary advising you "differently" as there is nothing to explain this comment in either this or any of your previous posts, the only reference you had made stated.... ::)

Jun 18, 2012 11:47:26 GMT enzo said:

Toni Hunt has spoken to me on several occasions regarding this and was demanding this be played, threatening that should it not be played, the game will be declared a draw and both ourselves and the Bib B be awarded 1 point each,

.... which would appear to indicate that the Secretary was chasing you up to get the game played and had told you exactly what would happen if the game wasn't played in time - as decided at the previous Committee Meeting. ;)

There seems little point in discussing this further on the Forum as the Committee would be the only people able to overturn their previous decision. :-X

Jun 20, 2012 8:33:00 GMT BB Warrior said:

There seems little point in discussing this further on the Forum as the Committee would be the only people able to overturn their previous decision. :-X

Agreed.

Basically, Enzo has showed us all a letter to which (due to an oversight ?) he hasn't had an official reply.
He needs something official to close the matter.     Nothing we can do on here.     Thread closed.