Ever had your 'home' table sabotaged ?

racehorse said:

Montreal 3 - 2 Stadium A

First win this year for the Mont!

Only bad point was learning one of the Stadium team no names mentioned, decided to come in the night before the game and move the legs on the table adjusting the height. A few strong words were exchanged befefore the match. Would like to hear people's opinions on whether this is allowed or not????? We certainly wouldn't go in to another venue 24 hours before the match and try to change the table about!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This makes such alarming reading, I'm starting a special thread on the subject.
I have one such incident to relate, but you guys can go first.
Keep it impersonal if possible.

[NigelS]

I have responded to Gary on the Brighton thread, tommo. But agree that it is alarming. I invited Gary to submit something to our commitee if he wishes so it can be discussed, and would also like to get the Stadium's point of view as well.

Generally speaking, it is common sense that you don't adjust other teams tables especially if you are playing them the next day. The rule in Brighton is that you can play on an away table apart from the day of the actual match. So no actual rule was broken here, but as I say, it is an unwritten rule, and I can understand the upset of the home team in this case.

[racehorse]

Nigel, I think i will be popping along to the next commitee meeting if you let me know when it is as someone decided to elect me on there this year. It wasn't just the case of the table but i have a few other issues to point out and will send you a PM as here isn't the right place.

You've not suffered that displeasure, then Nigel.

This thread started, by the way for lighthearted accounts of cheeky so-and-so's trying to do the dirty. We'll keep it separate from the Brighton issue which is sub judicae.

Anyway, my one.

For many years we had the benefit of a good home venue the Windmill Crawley. Teams there enjoyed many successes in both Horsham and Mid Sussex, and even won the County Team event one year.

Our table was tended with loving care by the late Neville Edwards, bless him, he took much pride in the responsibility and it was a high-scoring table - no argument.

But one season something strange started happening. The table would play fine on the Tuesday but played totally different on the Wednesday. This went on for several weeks.

Then quite by chance margo and I went up there one Wednesday lunchtime as we had booked a day off work and decided to try out the new lunch menu. A couple of lads arrived who looked vaguely familiar - third division players from the pub four miles up the road (Cherry Tree).

They had a couple of games while we were eating our lunch, tucked round the other side of a partition, slightly out of view.
Suddenly margo looked alarmed, her eyes open wide "They're adjusting our table !" she said. Sure enough, between each shot, one of the chaps was adjusting the legs on the table.

Well once we loomed into view and put a coin on the table the game was up and they looked very sheepish. We didn't say anything but had a game on it and it was total crap.

I phoned Neville and he was round there like a shot: The table played fine that night (once that Neville had corrected it back to a level playing surface) and it played okay to the rest of the season.

I could reveal the identity of the culprit who in later years rose to quite a high office of officialdom, but I won't - I'll protect the name of the guilty !

[bigtj]

Totally out of order and hope you will name and shame when you bring it up in front of committee Gary. The culprit should be dealt with under whatever rules exsist for sportsmanship.

[Colemanator]

Unfortunately Bar Billiard tables are easily tampered with and can disrupt hours of preperation as we have found out at our home venue.

[Dave Anscombe]

It seems that some people have come across this problem more than others. From tommos account it seems that the guilty ones were out to get some sort of advantage. Only tommo can tell us that.
In my thirty odd years in the game I have never come across this before, but that doesn't mean it hasn't happened.
We haven't been told what excuse the Stadium player gave for his 'adjustment' to the Montreal table. Did his own team have words with him or was this exchange kept only between the teams? If his team didn't say anything to him then that could give the impression they may have been in on it.
I think we must have a response from one or two of the Stadium team to get their view before any judgment is made but if an attempt is made to either gain an unfair advantage, or influence the outcome, of a game then leagues will have to come down hard. But we need to see the facts of this incident first.
Just another thought, where this has happened before what sort of punishment have other leagues dished out to the guilty part?

I think the trouble is Dave, that there is no real rule or guideline to provision for it.

It is so farcical that equal embarrassment is caused to the finder-out, and naming and shaming someone is in itself a form of ungentlemanly conduct.

Certain things concerning common decency and etiquette aren't covered in the rules and maybe as well.

A schoolboy 'unwritten rule' - you didn't try and win your best mate's girlfriend. Okay, a better example needed :
In 3-ball billiards if you pot your opponents white ball - hopefully accidentally only - you score 2 points for it. But it's a point of etiquette that you don't set out to pot the opponent's ball. But even if it was deliberate you'd still get 2 points.

I think we are discussing an occurrence that is so unusual, every case should be handled on its own merit.

A far more bigger problem rife in bar billiards is of teams making their own table difficult for the opposition - sometimes out of simple neglect.

[davejones]

On a slight tangent on this thread. Many years ago when Portslade introduced the C league (div 3 now) in inter league. A few of us younger players used to travel far and wide in search of bar billiard tables. Four of us walked into the Five Oaks at Five Oaks just outside Billingshurst.

Sam Vanden Burgh (not sure of spelling) asked us where we came from which we replied the Crabtree in Lancing and he rattled off a few players from the first team at our pub.

He then gave us the tables secret that you can only get the break if the red ball is past the red spot and the white ball baulk side of the spot. We thanked him and played another couple of games and walked out.

The next evening we turned up for inter league at the Five Oaks and Sam asked us why we were here. Inter League we replied and he said something like oh S**t I wished I hadn't told you how this table played now.

We won the match 4-3 on the basis of insider knowledge.

Yes the Five Oaks was a good example of a 'specially prepared' home table.
After a few years of 0-5 thrashings we learned to judge how it was going to play by counting the number of beermats under particular legs.
Anyone remember that other 'specially prepared' table, the Beach Hotel in Littlehampton ?

[Lord Cheeky]

I don't remember the Beach Hotel in Littlehampton Clive but my fellow team mates have told me about how it was set up and who was doing it, but it back fired on him one or two times as he never told his team mates what he had done so they ended up losing. The gentleman who 'specially prepared' his table 'specially prepared' all the tables at all the pubs he played in.

[Alan Messer]

trayton said:

I think we must have a response from one or two of the Stadium team to get their view before any judgment is made but if an attempt is made to either gain an unfair advantage, or influence the outcome, of a game then leagues will have to come down hard. But we need to see the facts of this incident first.

I have posted a reply on the Brighton thread concerning this matter, but would like to also say on this thread that the action of the individual was not sanctioned by any other member of the team. His action was I believe that of someone who naiavely thought they were helping the home team and bar billiards in general as the table was so difficult on the night he went to practise.

Just to add a little bit more information Chris did say that one of the home team was there in the pub when he was 'correcting' the table. I only have Chris's word for this but I have no reason to disbelieve him.

Thats about all I can add to the sorry story.