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Post by BB Warrior on Dec 4, 2012 14:57:19 GMT
There has been some discussion on other threads about AEBBA Rules that are missing from the SCBBA Rules and also ideas on changes that could be made to "improve" the game at local (and National) levels.
Please could people use this thread ONLY for proposals to go forward to the Sussex AGM next year and try to avoid "banter" and excessive discussion about these to enable us to just stick to the things we would like to actually try to change.... perhaps separate discussion threads could be started to discuss either these proposals or to suggest other ideas that could then lead to new proposals to be added here.
I look forward to lots of thoughts and new ideas coming forward.... and a healthy turn out next year at the AGM! 8-)
NOTE - I will try to list all of the proposals that have been seconded below so we can keep them all together, these can then go forward to the next Sussex AGM....
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PROPOSAL 1
(Proposed by - David Ingram, Seconded by - Matthew Knight, Clive Thompson and Graham Sparksman)
SCBBA Rules for Playing Conditions
Remove all of the current Rules relating to "Playing Conditions" in this section and replace with....
1) All matches should be played under the Rules and Playing Conditions approved by the AEBBA and shown on the AEBBA Website.
2) A copy of the AEBBA Rules should be available at all League venues and also all SCBBA Competition Venues and these should be referred to in the event of any dispute during the course of a match or competition.
Reason for Proposal - to ensure that the latest AEBBA Rules for Playing Conditions are always kept updated and adhered to within all Sussex Leagues and Competitions. The Rules covering Competitions within Sussex will continue to be maintained and updated as required.
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PROPOSAL 2
(Proposed by - David Ingram, Seconded by - Graham Sparksman)
In the section relating to Leagues that are affiliated to SCBBA), removal of the following from the Rules:-
17. Immediately Affiliated Leagues have completed their Winter season's competitions, the Secretary will forward to the Association's Secretary the following information: -
Name of League Champions & Runners-up.
Name of League's Individual Champions (Men's & Ladies) and the runners-ups.
In all cases addresses and telephone numbers to be included with this information.
Reason for removal - since there is no longer a Champion of Champions Cup and entry to the Watney Mann Cup is no longer restricted to either the winners / runners-up from each League, this Rule is no longer relevant.... and I very much doubt if anybody has abided by it for many years anyway!
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PROPOSAL 3
(Proposed by - David Ingram, Seconded by - Graham Sparksman)
In the section relating to Leagues that are affiliated to SCBBA, the addition of the following new Rules....
17. All Member Leagues agree by their affiliation to abide by the association’s rules.
17a. All Member Leagues agree to inform Teams within their League that rules relating to Playing Conditions are now in accordance with AEBBA Rules.
Reason for proposal.... to extend the same level of responsibility to Member Leagues in respect of abiding to the Rules that SCBBA have to give by their affiliation to AEBBA (under AEBBA Rule 17) and to confirm that Teams are made aware of the current AEBBA Rules.
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PROPOSAL 4
(Proposed by - David Ingram, Seconded by - Clive Thompson)
In the section concerning "RULES FOR SUSSEX TEAMS COMPETITION"
Amend Rule 3 to add the sentence that is underlined below....
3. A Team will consist of 5 players all of which must have been registered for that Team during the previous season of the league, together with one guest player who must be notified to the Competition Secretary before the start of the Competition. No player may play for more than one team in this competition during the same season.
Reason for Rule Change.... There is currently no rule to stop a player that fulfills the other criteria from playing for more than one team at present.
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PROPOSAL 5
(Proposed by - David Ingram, Seconded by - Jean Brackenridge)
In the section entitled...."SECONDARY" COMPETITION - ONE DAY BASIS - THIS IS AN 'OPEN' COMPETITION
The first Rule states....
1. REGISTRATION - In this competition, a player may play for another league than the one represented in the main competition, if the original league does not make any formal objection. Disputes are to be resolved by the SCBBA committee.
A proposal to add the following Rules....
1a) The One Day Competition will be divided into "sub-competitions" consisting of teams representing their League being placed in "Open Categories" for Division 1 and Division 2 based on their performance in the Competition the previous season. There will be separate competitions for "Ladies Only Teams" and for "B & C Teams", who will not be eligible to play in the Main Competition.
1b) All players must be registered players within the Leagues that they represent in any of the competitions. Any player found in breach of this Rule will be disqualified and their games awarded to their opponent.
1c) Once a player has represented their League in either Division 1, Division 2 or the competition for B & C Teams in a One Day Competition, they are not eligible to play for another team in any of these sections during the course of the same season.
1d) Lady players are eligible to take part in both the "Ladies Only" Competition and also in one of the "Open Categories", provided that Rule 1c) is adhered to. Lady players do not have to represent the same League in the Ladies Only Competition as in the Open Competition, but Rule 1b) must be adhered to for them to qualify to play in both competitions. Ranking Points earned in the Ladies Only competition will not count towards the "Open" Sussex Masters Competition.
Reasons for the proposal....
1a) For clarification of the different competitions.
1b) There is currently no Rule in place to cover this.
1c) There is currently no Rule in place to cover this.
1d) For clarification of what seems to be an unwritten rule. ;D
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PROPOSAL 6
(Proposed by - David Ingram, Seconded by - Jean Brackenridge)
In the area relating to the One Day Competitions, the current Rules state....
"SECONDARY" COMPETITION - ONE DAY BASIS - THIS IS AN 'OPEN' COMPETITION
5. During the playing of the day’s competitions, once a series has commenced, Team Captains will not be allowed to make changes in their Teams until the series being played has been completed.
6. All Team changes must be advised to the Administration Desk before the start of the series in which the change of players is to be effective.
A proposal to amend these rules to read....
(New Rule) 5. At the start of the Competition, a draw will be made to determine the position within the team that each player will occupy for the duration of the Competition.
(New Rule) 6. Captains will be allowed to make changes to their team to enable reserves to play during the course of the competition, however these must be made prior to the start of the next series of games and the Competition Organisers must be notified before the substitute is allowed to play a match.
Reasons for proposals....
Rule 5.... there is no rule that currently states this.
Rule 6.... Combines Old Rules 5 and 6 into one Rule.
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PROPOSAL 7
(Proposed by - Dave Ingram, Seconded by - Jean Brackenridge)
In the section relating to the One Day Competition....
"SECONDARY" COMPETITION - ONE DAY BASIS - THIS IS AN 'OPEN' COMPETITION
A proposal to add the following Rules...
New Rule 8) In Competitions where matches are played as Double Leg games, both players shall have the break at the start of one leg as determined by their position in the draw for their Team.
New Rule 9) In Competitions where matches are played as Single Leg Games, the player having the first break will be decided by their position within the draw for their Team and all games will be played on a basis of Even Break but not Equal Time.
Reason for proposal.... there are no current rules stating this.
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PROPOSAL 8
(Proposed by - David Ingram, Seconded by - Tony Jenner)
In the section entitled..... "MAIN" COMPETITION - HOME & AWAY BASIS
A Proposal to add the following new Rule....
New Rule 9) No player may practice an "away" table on the day of the match on any table that their team are scheduled to play on. Any Player found in breach of this rule will not be permitted to play at the time of the match and if any player is found retrospectively to have breached this Rule that game will be awarded to their opponents and their game score will be counted as zero.
Reason for proposal - There is currently no direct rule that states this in the Inter League section.
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PROPOSAL 9
(Proposed by - David Ingram, Seconded by - Jean Brackenridge)
In the section entitled..... "SECONDARY" COMPETITION - ONE DAY BASIS - THIS IS AN 'OPEN' COMPETITION
Proposal to add the following Rule....
(New Rule) 7. If one of the originally named players at the start of the competition is substituted during the course of the competition, that player may be then used again later in the competition but that player must return to their original position in the line-up of the team. The substitute that they have replaced can then be used in another position within the line-up of the team if required providing they would not be playing on any table they may have previously played. Adherence to Rule 6 applies to all substitutions made during the competition.[/color]
Reason for proposal.... There is no rule that currently covers this and substitutions could be used "tactically" under the current rules to try to gain an advantage.
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PROPOSAL 10
(Proposed by - Kevin Hall, Seconded by - Clive Thompson)
In the section covering INDIVIDUAL COMPETITIONS.
Proposal to add the following Rule....
(New Rule) 49. Eligibility for the Sussex Captains Cup shall be limited to players who are Captsins of League, Watney Mann & Inter league Teams only.
Reason for proposal.... Clarification of eligibility as there is no rule to cover this at present.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2012 15:28:04 GMT
Well, the most expedient one would be to resolve the situation where the SCBBA Playing Rules have not kept apace with amendments passed at recent AEBBA AGMs: Alternatively, perhaps the Leagues involved should simply change their Rules to state that they will abide by the AEBBA Rules rather than by SCBBA Rules since I believe all Leagues are now classed as Associations of the AEBBA (they are all allowed a vote at the AEBBA AGM) and that would immediately resolve the problem of the County Rules catching up with AEBBA? ::) As you know me by now, Dave, I have no desire to change the bar billiards universe, I am getting ready to give up, after all, but what I can do is give an insight into how unfortunate situations have arisen. For the case in point, I can remember attending an AGM (in the early days of the AEBBA's formation) accompanying Charlie Cordery, the then-SCBBA Secretary. At the time Sussex had a separate set of Playing Rules which were in direct conflict with those issued by AEBBA. All counties present agreed the principle of one set of playing Rules. Charles then did a lot of work disentangling Sussex's playing rules away from the administrative rules (they were all jumbled up together) and at the ensuing County AGM proposed the deletion of the entire set of SCBBA playing rules and replacing them with AEBBA playing rules. I remember this well as I was Horsham Secretary at the time and we had a similar problem of conflict between SCBBA Playing rules and our own Horsham ones (playing rules jumbled in amongst administrative ones !) I did a similar job to Charlie and at the ensuing AGM we got ours deleted and replaced with the wording "ALL PLAYING RULES AS PER S.C.B.B.A" Where it then went wrong is that instead of SCBBA doing similar, and deleting their set and putting "ALL PLAYING RULES AS PER A.E.B.B.A." they incorporated them all into the SCBBA set Verbatim, thus condemning themselves forever to the problem of keeping up with resultant changes. Why did this have to be the case ? Because, in those days there was very little in the way of communication from the AEBBA level downwards. As far as the Sussex leagues were concerned, the AEBBA weren't the brilliant oracle they are now - they just consisted of three people who met up maybe once or twice a year and we therefore took our lead and guidance from the SCBBA. Hence the need for the inclusion of the Playing Rules (otherwise we wouldn't know about them !) As you have hinted in the part-quote above, there is a simple way round things. Do now what we couldn't do then, ie at the next SCBBA AGM get someone to propose deleting the lot and inserting " ALL PLAYING RULES AS PER A.E.B.B.A." Then it's "job done". ;) |
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Post by BB Warrior on Dec 4, 2012 15:34:29 GMT
Okay, let us start with the "big one".... where the AEBBA Rules are different to the SCBBA Rules.
Here is a copy of the current AEBBA Rules.... the areas highlighted in yellow are where they are different to the current rules on the Sussex Website......
PLAYING CONDITIONS.
1. The playing area of the table shall not be less than 138.4 cms or more than 143.5 cms in length, and not less than 78.7 cms in width, measuring from the inside edge of the cushions.
2. The table shall be not less than 86.4 cms and not more than 92.7 cms in height from the floor to the top of the cushion.
3. The table must be level and in good condition.
4. There shall be one black and two white skittles of equal size and weight. To a height of at least 5.1 cmsabove its base each skittle should be cylindrical with a diameter between 1.5 cms and 1.8 cms. Skittles should be 11.4 cms tall +/- 0.6 cm. The black skittle shall be placed on a spot, the back edge of which will be a 0.6 cm from the front edge of the 200 hole. The white skittles shall be placed on spots level with and 17.8 cms from the centre of the 100 hole.
5. A "D" shall be firmly fixed to the table in the centre of the base of the playing area. This should be
approximately 4 cms radius and the centre of the " D" shall be clearly marked with a spot, to be known as the break spot.
6. Another spot shall be fixed in the centre of the table with its centre not less than 17.1 cms and not more than 17.9 cms from the centre of the break spot on the "D". This shall be known as the red spot.
7. Baulk lines shall be clearly drawn on the table radiating from the centre of the base of the playing area to the
side cushions so as to form an arc of not less than 150 degrees and not more than 160 degrees.
8. The table shall be adequately illuminated.
9. One red ball and seven white balls of equal size and weight shall be provided.
RULES OF PLAY.
10. All shots must be played with the base of the cue ball within the area of the "D".
11. The red ball shall be placed by the hand on the red spot and a white ball placed on the break spot, also by
hand. The white ball is then played with a cue onto the red ball with the object of potting one or both balls. This is
known as playing from the break position.
12. If from the break position, both balls are potted into any holes, three times consecutively, the player on their
next shot shall be barred from potting more than one ball. in accordance with rule 33v (playing rules)
13. If no balls remain on the table at any time during the course of the game, with the exception of the last ball
shot, play will be continued from the break position.
14. From the break position the red ball must always be used on the red spot, unless the bar has dropped and the red is no longer available. At any other time use of the red ball as the cue ball is optional.
15. Other than from the break position and the last ball shot (see rule 26) the cue ball may be placed anywhere on
the "D".
16. A white ball potted into a hole shall score the value of that hole. The red ball when potted will score double
the value of that hole, provided no penalty has been incurred in either case.
17. A break will continue until such time as the player fails to pot a ball or plays a foul shot in accordance with rules 27 and 28.
18. At the end of a break the score should be recorded progressively on the scoreboard.
19. If during a break a ball on the lip of a hole falls in without being struck by another the ball shall count as if
potted and the score will count. A break will be deemed to have started when the first shot is played and ended when the scorer calls end of break.
20. If a player plays at a ball on the lip of a hole and the ball falls before the cue ball reaches it, no penalty will
be incurred and the player will continue with his break, except for any penalty incurred before the cue ball reaches
the position previously occupied by the object ball.
21. If a ball on the lip of a hole falls in after the scorer has called end of break, in conjunction with rule 33V1 end of a break this ball shall not count.
22. Should a ball knock a skittle off it’s spot but the skittle does not fall over, the score shall count and the skittle should be replaced in it’s correct position before the next shot is played, unless prevented by a ball encroaching on the skittle’s correct position, in which case it should be replaced as soon as the spot is clear, see rule 23 .
23. Should any ball be touching a skittle causing it to lean, or preventing it from being respotted this ball should
be returned to the rack AT THE END OF THE BREAK.
24. When no balls are left in the rack play continues by taking the ball furthest from the top (back) cushion. If
two balls are equidistant from the top cushion the ball nearest the Centre line of the table should be taken.
25. After the Bar has dropped, play should continue until all balls in the rack had been used.
25 a. If two balls are "bridged" over a hole and one must be returned to the player, the scorer must hold the balls, "tilt" the back ball onto the table at its nearest point, and bring the other ball back to the player.
26. If only one ball remains, either in the rack or on the table, the break score should be recorded before the last
shot is played. The last ball must then be played from the centre of the "D" into either the 100 or the 200 hole OFF
ONE SIDE CUSHION. This is known as the ‘Last ball shot’.
Before playing the last ball shot the white skittles should be placed in the 50 holes and the top holes
guarded. If the ball strikes a skittle in the 50 hole and falls into the 100 or 200 hole the score will not count. Both
players should continue to play the last ball shot alternately until the ball is potted or the black peg is knocked down.
26A No one is to touch any ball whilst it is in motion (eg falling down hole), except to prevent the ball from going down the top holes in rule 26
27. Foul shots incurring loss of break score penalty.
A). Potting both balls from break position four consecutive times. (Except as in rule 33v).
B). Failing to hit another ball with the cue ball. (Except as in rule 20 AND RULE 26).
C). Any ball returning over or obstructing the baulk line. A ball shall be deemed to be obstructing the baulk
line if when viewed from directly above it obscures any part of the line. The ball should be returned to the rack.
D ). Any ball obstructing or hitting the "D". A ball shall be deemed to be obstructing the "D" if when
viewed from directly above it obscures any part of the " D". The ball should be returned to the rack.
E). Any ball mounting the cushion or leaving the table, even if it falls back on the playing surface. The ball should be returned to the rack. It is not a foul shot if a ball bounces upwards and returns to playing surface without touching anything apart from another ball
F). Knocking down a white skittle with a ball.
G). Deliberately touching or knocking down a white skittle with cue or hand while the balls are in motion or before a ball has fallen completely down a hole. (reason - prematurely to avoid penalty, could just pick up the peg and put it back)
H). Playing a shot while balls are still in motion or before a ball has fallen completely down a hole.
I). The player interfering with the movement of any struck ball before it has completely fallen down a hole.
J). Accidentally knocking the cue ball off the "D" with the cue. The cue ball will not be considered to be in
play until it is completely clear of the "D" and the baulk line as in rules 27c and 27d..
K). Hitting the cue ball after it has left the "D" (double hitting / push shot).
L). Not using the red ball, when available, at the red ball spot, at the break shot.
M). Causing a ball resting on the lip of a hole to drop by deliberately disturbing the table. Players should take
their hands off the table as soon as the ball is struck. (under discussion)
N) Playing the break shot with either ball not on its spot. It is not a foul under this rule if the ball falls off the
spot as the player is in the act of striking. Any other penalty incurred will count.
O) If the cue ball fails to reach an imaginary line through the black peg and parallel with the top cushion and
does not strike another ball, it will be returned to the tray and the player loses his break. (this does not apply to the last ball of the game).
28. Foul shots incurring loss of entire score penalty.
A). Knocking down the black skittle with a ball.
B). Deliberately touching the black skittle with a cue or hand while balls are in motion or before a ball has completely fallen down a hole.
29. Should both a white and a black skittle be knocked down, if the white skittle falls first, the penalty will be loss of break, unless the white was knocked down deliberately by hand or cue. Should the black skittle fall first, the penalty will be loss of entire score.
30. If a player is nudged or jolted while in the act of playing a shot, causing them to play a foul shot, no penalty
will be incurred. The scorer should replace the balls in what they consider to be their original positions and the
player should then replay their shot.
31. If the balls are disturbed in any way other than in the normal course of play, then the scorer should replace
the balls in what he/she considers to be their original positions and play should continue. If, in the opinion of the
scorer, a ball on the edge of the hole falls due to any accidental or deliberate table movement by the player, that the
ball be replaced and will not count and the break will end.
32. Deliberately foul shot.
If, after the bar has dropped, a player in the opinion of the scorer deliberately plays a ball directly into a hole
without touching another ball, then the ball should be retrieved and the other player allowed to play it. Any
additional coins required to do so should be provided by the player deemed to have played the foul.
33. Scorer and marker.
i). A competent scorer should be appointed. In intercounties team matches this will be from the team with
first break, the other team may supply a marker if they wish.
ii). The scorer will act as referee and will be the sole arbiter on matters of facts and interpretation of the rules
during the course of the game, unless a tournament referee is present as in rule 2.
iii). The scorer will call out progressively the score after each shot.
iv). Progressive thousands must be recorded either by placing in clear view coins or other suitable markers,
or alternatively by recording them on the scoreboard.
v). After a player has potted both balls three times consecutively from the break position the scorer must
clearly warn the player to leave one ball up. Should he fail to do so the player will not be penalised under rule 27a.
vi). If during the course of play a ball remains on the lip of a hole the scorer shall decide when to call end of
break in accordance with rule 21. (Player walking away from table does not determine end of break)
vii). The scorer shall be responsible for ensuring that the scores recorded on the scoreboard are correct.
viii). A marker may be appointed to record the progressive scores on the scoreboard at the end of each break.
ix). The marker, if appointed, should check the score as it is called out by the scorer and should draw his attention to any discrepancy at the earliest convenient time.
x). No person other than the scorer or marker should touch the scoreboard during the course of the game.
34). If a ball obstructs the placing of a ball anywhere in the 'D', but no foul shot has been played, it will remain
there, but will be removed to the trap at the end of the current break (similar to the leaning peg/obstructed spot
situation).
35) No coaching of players should take place whilst the player is at the table.
WOW!! I knew that there had been some changes, but really did not expect to find that many differences!! :o :o :o
Okay, so here goes with the FIRST Proposal.
The SCBBA Rules should be updated to reflect and include all of the above AEBBA Rules of Play "en bloc" and every attempt should be made to ensure that any future Rule Changes are updated at the earliest possible opportunity after any new Rules are introduced by AEBBA.
Perhaps somebody would be kind enough to second this proposal?
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Post by BB Warrior on Dec 4, 2012 15:50:50 GMT
PROPOSAL NUMBER 2
Rather than having to update the SCBBA Rules every time that there are amendments to the AEBBA Rules, I would propose that we simply have the following:-
SCBBA Rules for Playing Conditions
1) All matches should be played under the Rules and Playing Conditions approved by the AEBBA and shown on the AEBBA Website.
2) A copy of the AEBBA Rules should be available at all League venues and also all SCBBA Competition Venues and these should be referred to in the event of any dispute during the course of a match or competition.
The above Rules to replace entirely the existing Rules for Playing Conditions ONLY within Sussex, however Rules for all Individual Competitions, Inter League, One Day Inter League and Sussex Team Competitions will continue to be used as shown separately as Rules for SCBBA Competitions and will be updated as and when any amendments are agreed at AGM's.
Perhaps somebody would like to second this alternative proposal?
This Proposal has been seconded and is now listed at top of thread to go forward to the next AGM.
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Post by "Silent" on Dec 4, 2012 15:53:24 GMT
I second PROPOSAL NUMBER 2
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2012 17:10:31 GMT
I second PROPOSAL NUMBER 2 I too agree that Proposal 2 is slicker, as it takes the onus away of 'trying to keep abreast of developments'. But I would propose the addition of an amendment/proviso that all playing rules found to duplicate the AEBBA ones (whether accurately or not) are removed from the SCBBA set accordingly. |
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Post by Sparky on Dec 4, 2012 19:40:43 GMT
I second PROPOSAL NUMBER 2 I too agree that Proposal 2 is slicker, as it takes the onus away of 'trying to keep abreast of developments'. But I would propose the addition of an amendment/proviso that all playing rules found to duplicate the AEBBA ones (whether accurately or not) are removed from the SCBBA set accordingly. I would have seconded Proposal 2 as well, and agree with Tommo's suggested amendment. |
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Post by BB Warrior on Dec 4, 2012 20:13:54 GMT
I too agree that Proposal 2 is slicker, as it takes the onus away of 'trying to keep abreast of developments'. But I would propose the addition of an amendment/proviso that all playing rules found to duplicate the AEBBA ones (whether accurately or not) are removed from the SCBBA set accordingly. I would have seconded Proposal 2 as well, and agree with Tommo's suggested amendment. Agree that this should have been clarified.... also that it would only apply to the Rules concerning Playing Conditions and would not affect the Rules about SCBBA Competitions which would need to remain in place and be updated as any amendments are made. I have revised the proposal above to (hopefully) clarify this. ;D |
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Post by BB Warrior on Dec 4, 2012 20:25:45 GMT
I would also propose that the following (shown in the section relating to Leagues that are affiliated to SCBBA) should be removed from the Rules:-
17. Immediately Affiliated Leagues have completed their Winter season's competitions, the Secretary will forward to the Association's Secretary the following information: -
Name of League Champions & Runners-up.
Name of League's Individual Champions (Men's & Ladies) and the runners-ups.
In all cases addresses and telephone numbers to be included with this information.
Reason for removal - since there is no longer a Champion of Champions Cup and entry to the Watney Mann Cup is no longer restricted to either the winners / runners-up from each League, this Rule is no longer relevant.... and I very much doubt if anybody has abided by it for many years anyway! ::)
Would anybody like to second this change?
This Proposal has been seconded and is now listed at top of thread to go forward to the next AGM.
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Post by BB Warrior on Dec 4, 2012 20:39:36 GMT
NEW RULE Proposal
To be added in the section relating to Leagues that are affiliated to SCBBA....
17. All Member Leagues agree by their affiliation to abide by the association’s rules.
17a. All Member Leagues agree to inform Teams within their League that rules relating to Playing Conditions are now in accordance with AEBBA Rules.
Reason for proposal.... to extend the same level of responsibility to Member Leagues in respect of abiding to the Rules that SCBBA have to give by their affiliation to AEBBA (under AEBBA Rule 17) and to confirm that Teams are made aware of the current AEBBA Rules.
Perhaps somebody could second this proposal?
This Proposal has been seconded and is now listed at top of thread to go forward to the next AGM.
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Post by Sparky on Dec 4, 2012 21:03:54 GMT
I would also propose that the following (shown in the section relating to Leagues that are affiliated to SCBBA) should be removed from the Rules:- 17. Immediately Affiliated Leagues have completed their Winter season's competitions, the Secretary will forward to the Association's Secretary the following information: -
Name of League Champions & Runners-up.
Name of League's Individual Champions (Men's & Ladies) and the runners-ups.
In all cases addresses and telephone numbers to be included with this information. Reason for removal - since there is no longer a Champion of Champions Cup and entry to the Watney Mann Cup is no longer restricted to either the winners / runners-up from each League, this Rule is no longer relevant.... and I very much doubt if anybody has abided by it for many years anyway! ::) Would anybody like to second this change? |
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Post by Sparky on Dec 4, 2012 21:05:07 GMT
NEW RULE Proposal To be added in the section relating to Leagues that are affiliated to SCBBA.... 17. All Member Leagues agree by their affiliation to abide by the association’s rules.
17a. All Member Leagues agree to inform Teams within their League that rules relating to Playing Conditions are now in accordance with AEBBA Rules.Reason for proposal.... to extend the same level of responsibility to Member Leagues in respect of abiding to the Rules that SCBBA have to give by their affiliation to AEBBA (under AEBBA Rule 17) and to confirm that Teams are made aware of the current AEBBA Rules. Perhaps somebody could second this proposal? |
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Post by Sparky on Dec 4, 2012 21:10:49 GMT
PROPOSAL NUMBER 2 Rather than having to update the SCBBA Rules every time that there are amendments to the AEBBA Rules, I would propose that we simply have the following:- SCBBA Rules for Playing Conditions 1) All matches should be played under the Rules and Playing Conditions approved by the AEBBA and shown on the AEBBA Website. 2) A copy of the AEBBA Rules should be available at all League venues and also all SCBBA Competition Venues and these should be referred to in the event of any dispute during the course of a match or competition. The above Rules to replace entirely the existing Rules for Playing Conditions ONLY within Sussex, however Rules for all Individual Competitions, Inter League, One Day Inter League and Sussex Team Competitions will continue to be used as shown separately as Rules for SCBBA Competitions and will be updated as and when any amendments are agreed at AGM's.Perhaps somebody would like to second this alternative proposal? |
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Post by Dave Hampton on Dec 4, 2012 23:50:09 GMT
For the last 4 years, the last rule in LBBL (currently No.13) has been:
"All games to be played under All England Bar Billiards Association rules unless specified otherwise in the above rules"
All teams have of copy of the current AEBBA rules ( except that we haven't gone metric in LA yet )
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Post by BB Warrior on Dec 5, 2012 12:15:45 GMT
Another new Proposal....
In the section concerning "RULES FOR SUSSEX TEAMS COMPETITION"
Amend Rule 3 to add the sentence shown in yellow below....
3. A Team will consist of 5 players all of which must have been registered for that Team during the previous season of the league, together with one guest player who must be notified to the Competition Secretary before the start of the Competition. No player may play for more than one team in this competition during the same season.
Reason for Rule Change.... There is currently no rule to stop a player that fulfills the other criteria from playing for more than one team at present.
Would somebody like to second this change? ;D
This Proposal has been seconded and is now listed at top of thread to go forward to the next AGM.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2012 13:12:15 GMT
Yes, I'll second your Rule 3 amendment.
tommo
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Post by BB Warrior on Dec 5, 2012 13:41:43 GMT
Another proposal for a Rule that perhaps needs to be expanded to clarify it fully....
In the section entitled...."SECONDARY" COMPETITION - ONE DAY BASIS - THIS IS AN 'OPEN' COMPETITION
The first Rule states....
1. REGISTRATION - In this competition, a player may play for another league than the one represented in the main competition, if the original league does not make any formal objection. Disputes are to be resolved by the SCBBA committee.
I would like to add the following Rules....
1a) The One Day Competition will be divided into "sub-competitions" consisting of teams representing their League being placed in "Open Categories" for Division 1 and Division 2 based on their performance in the Competition the previous season. There will be separate competitions for "Ladies Only Teams" and for "B & C Teams", who will not be eligible to play in the Main Competition.
1b) All players must be registered players within the Leagues that they represent in any of the competitions. Any player found in breach of this Rule will be disqualified and their games awarded to their opponent.
1c) Once a player has represented their League in either Division 1, Division 2 or the competition for B & C Teams in a One Day Competition, they are not eligible to play for another team in any of these sections during the course of the same season.
1d) Lady players are eligible to take part in both the "Ladies Only" Competition and also in one of the "Open Categories", provided that Rule 1c) is adhered to. Lady players do not have to represent the same League in the Ladies Only Competition as in the Open Competition, but Rule 1b) must be adhered to for them to qualify to play in both competitions. Ranking Points earned in the Ladies Only competition will not count towards the "Open" Sussex Masters Competition.
Reasons for the proposal....
1a) For clarification of the different competitions.
1b) There is currently no Rule in place to cover this.
1c) There is currently no Rule in place to cover this.
1d) For clarification of what seems to be an unwritten rule. ;D
Any takers to second these new proposals? ;)
This Proposal has been seconded and is now listed at top of thread to go forward to the next AGM.
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Post by BB Warrior on Dec 5, 2012 14:06:33 GMT
Staying with the One Day Competitions, the current Rules state....
"SECONDARY" COMPETITION - ONE DAY BASIS - THIS IS AN 'OPEN' COMPETITION
5. During the playing of the day’s competitions, once a series has commenced, Team Captains will not be allowed to make changes in their Teams until the series being played has been completed.
6. All Team changes must be advised to the Administration Desk before the start of the series in which the change of players is to be effective.
I think that these should be amended to read....
(New Rule) 5. At the start of the Competition, a draw will be made to determine the position within the team that each player will occupy for the duration of the Competition.
(New Rule) 6. Captains will be allowed to make changes to their team to enable reserves to play during the course of the competition, however these must be made prior to the start of the next series of games and the Competition Organisers must be notified before the substitute is allowed to play a match.
Reasons for proposals....
Rule 5.... there is no rule that currently states this.
Rule 6.... Combines Old Rules 5 and 6 into one Rule.
Anyone care to second these proposals?
This Proposal has been seconded and is now listed at top of thread to go forward to the next AGM.
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Post by BB Warrior on Dec 5, 2012 14:29:33 GMT
Staying with the One Day Competition (again).... ;D
"SECONDARY" COMPETITION - ONE DAY BASIS - THIS IS AN 'OPEN' COMPETITION
I would propose the addition of the following Rules...
New Rule 8) In Competitions where matches are played as Double Leg games, both players shall have the break at the start of one leg as determined by their position in the draw for their Team.
New Rule 9) In Competitions where matches are played as Single Leg Games, the player having the first break will be decided by their position within the draw for their Team and all games will be played on a basis of Even Break but not Equal Time.
Reason for proposal.... there are no current rules stating this.
Anybody want to second these proposals?
This Proposal has been seconded and is now listed at top of thread to go forward to the next AGM.
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Post by JB on Dec 7, 2012 13:34:00 GMT
Will second 1a 1b 1c & 1d
Will second 5 and 6
Will second 8 and 9
Rule 7 The second part I think should be amended slightly so it reads The substitute that they have replaced can then be used in another position within the line-up of the team if required providing they would not be playing on any table they may have previously played.
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Post by milko on Dec 7, 2012 13:41:35 GMT
How many days are you holding this AGM for ?
milko :P ;D
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Post by JB on Dec 7, 2012 13:48:59 GMT
Probably nothing to worry about Keith. Theres always loads of comments made for suggestions for rule changes etc on here but when it comes to the AGM no-one bothers to put these proposals forward in writing to the League Secretary and dont even bother to turn up to the AGM
Lets hope this years different. I might just arrange the AGM at a hotel and book a room for the night lol
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Post by BB Warrior on Dec 7, 2012 14:08:19 GMT
Okay, having read Jean's comments about amending this, how does this look now?
Staying with the One Day Competitions, the current Rules state....
"SECONDARY" COMPETITION - ONE DAY BASIS - THIS IS AN 'OPEN' COMPETITION
Proposal to add the following Rule....
(New Rule) 7. If one of the originally named players at the start of the competition is substituted during the course of the competition, that player may be then used again later in the competition but that player must return to their original position in the line-up of the team. The substitute that they have replaced can then be used in another position within the line-up of the team if required providing they would not be playing on any table they may have previously played. Adherence to Rule 6 applies to all substitutions made during the competition.
Reasons for proposal....
Rule 7.... There is no rule that currently covers this and substitutions could be used "tactically" under the current rules to try to gain an advantage.
Jean's addition makes a lot of sense and is something that I hadn't considered.... so would somebody now like to second this amended proposal?
This Proposal has been seconded and is now listed at top of thread to go forward to the next AGM.
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Post by BB Warrior on Dec 7, 2012 14:33:53 GMT
Probably nothing to worry about Keith. Theres always loads of comments made for suggestions for rule changes etc on here but when it comes to the AGM no-one bothers to put these proposals forward in writing to the League Secretary and dont even bother to turn up to the AGM Lets hope this years different. I might just arrange the AGM at a hotel and book a room for the night lol Yes, I agree that the Rules have often been talked about on here by certain people..... who then don't turn up at the Sussex AGM so nothing happens apart from the same people complaing about it again the next year! :-X But, the "Anorak" (as a certain person described me as recently as last night.... twice! :o ;D) is now on the case so you can be assured that any of the proposals that are seconded and shown above WILL go forward to the next Sussex AGM for discussion. ;D ;D ;D It is obviously then up to the people who want (or don't want as the case may be) the Rules to be changed to actually turn up at the AGM, voice their opinions and cast their vote. 8-) Since we haven't had any proposals from the "traditional moaners" yet, at this stage it's hard to say whether we will need to book the hotel to discuss all of the other proposals that may come forward.... or if we will just have to put up with the grumbles next year about the changes that will happen! ;D |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2012 14:43:59 GMT
Probably nothing to worry about Keith. Theres always loads of comments made for suggestions for rule changes etc on here but when it comes to the AGM no-one bothers to put these proposals forward in writing to the League Secretary and dont even bother to turn up to the AGM Lets hope this years different. I might just arrange the AGM at a hotel and book a room for the night lol Perhaps you should see the lack of input for recent AGMs (the last real discussions I can find on here were prior to the 2010 one) as a positive, Jean: an indication that in general people are extremely happy with the way things are run, so very little justification to change. 8-) The excitement you see on here at present in advance of the 2013 AGM is a legacy of a chance discovery of the mis-alignment of SCBBA Playing Rules with AEBBA ones. Dave is putting a lot of research into this and the end result hopefully will be a package that can be proposed en bloc and adopted - maybe even with the prior blessing and a recommendation from the committee. Any radical changes separately proposed will need a seconder in their own right and will probably require the presence of the proposer at the AGM to support the same and put forward a very convincing argument. They will according to tradition stand or fall in accordance with due democratic process. |
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Post by gandalf the untidy on Dec 7, 2012 19:50:59 GMT
Rule Amendment Proposal.
INTER LEAGUE RULES
"MAIN" COMPETITION - HOME & AWAY BASIS
rule 1 as existing
An Inter-League match will consist of 7 single games, the away team to have the breaks on games 2, 3, 5 & 6 and the home team to have the breaks on games 1, 4 and 7. In each of the seven games the home captain must nominate the home player first at the start of the game. Where two or more players in a team have the same surname the full Christian name shall be entered on the result card and the identity of the first named player be established before the second player be named.
Rule 1 as proposed
An Inter-League match will consist of 7 single games of double break format, the away team will have the first break and the home team will have the second break in ALL games. In each of the seven games the home captain must nominate the home player first at the start of the game. The full christian name and surname of players shall be entered on the result card and the identity of the first named player be established before the second player be named.
regs cs
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Post by BB Warrior on Dec 9, 2012 0:17:31 GMT
Proposal for new Rule....
In the section entitled..... "MAIN" COMPETITION - HOME & AWAY BASIS
New Rule 9) No player may practice an "away" table on the day of the match on any table that their team are scheduled to play on. Any Player found in breach of this rule will not be permitted to play at the time of the match and if any player is found retrospectively to have breached this Rule that game will be awarded to their opponents and their game score will be counted as zero.
Reason for proposal - as pointed out by Tommo, there is currently no direct rule that specifically states this in the Inter League section, although Competition Rule 42 would probably cover this if there was an incident before this Rule came into force, if agreed of course. ;)
Perhaps somebody would like to second this?
This Proposal has been seconded and is now listed at top of thread to go forward to the next AGM.
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Post by bigtj on Dec 9, 2012 9:32:58 GMT
Seconded, and agree we need clarification, but think gentlemanly and sporting behavior should prevail.
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Post by BB Warrior on Dec 9, 2012 10:04:13 GMT
Seconded, and agree we need clarification, but think gentlemanly and sporting behavior should prevail. Thanks TJ, I agree with you entirely and I very much doubt if the situation has ever arisen in all of the time that the Inter League Competition has been running.... but as Tommo pointed out that there is no current rule stating this I thought that we might as well try to close the loophole before it ever becomes a problem. ;) The proposal has now been added to the list at the top of the thread to go forward to the next AGM. |
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Post by BB Warrior on Dec 9, 2012 10:05:50 GMT
Still waiting for this proposal to be seconded..... Okay, having read Jean's comments about amending this, how does this look now? Staying with the One Day Competitions, the current Rules state.... "SECONDARY" COMPETITION - ONE DAY BASIS - THIS IS AN 'OPEN' COMPETITION Proposal to add the following Rule.... (New Rule) 7. If one of the originally named players at the start of the competition is substituted during the course of the competition, that player may be then used again later in the competition but that player must return to their original position in the line-up of the team. The substitute that they have replaced can then be used in another position within the line-up of the team if required providing they would not be playing on any table they may have previously played. Adherence to Rule 6 applies to all substitutions made during the competition.Reasons for proposal.... Rule 7.... There is no rule that currently covers this and substitutions could be used "tactically" under the current rules to try to gain an advantage. Jean's addition makes a lot of sense and is something that I hadn't considered.... so would somebody now like to second this amended proposal? |
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