SCBBA COVID-19 Guidelines

[StuC]

At the Sussex AGM it was agreed that the committee would produce a set of guidelines that could be used for the return of leagues within Sussex. The idea being that we could have a standard set of recommended guidance that could be used across the county, so that anyone playing a match (in any of these leagues) would know what to expect. The guidelines would also help teams and venues prepare for a return to league action whenever this can happen.

I have attached these preliminary guidelines. Please could anyone who is interested have a read of these and let me know what you think needs to be added, removed or amended before we produce a final version.

These guidelines have been complied with reference to the suggestions that have been made on this forum and also from looking at the guidance that snooker and pool leagues are currently using.

Obviously these are produced to reflect the current Government guidelines and these will need to be updated for any changes to these as we go forward.

(Attachment deleted as final guidelines posted)

[Chunky Monkey]

Just one point possible two.

• A player should not remove a ball from the tray and leave it on the table for their opponent at the end of a break

Why?
Both players are using the same balls.

And the offering of a drink at the end of the game? Why can that still not be offered?

[davejones]

Sept 3, 2020 13:40:32 GMT StuC said:

At the Sussex AGM it was agreed that the committee would produce a set of guidelines that could be used for the return of leagues within Sussex. The idea being that we could have a standard set of recommended guidance that could be used across the county, so that anyone playing a match (in any of these leagues) would know what to expect. The guidelines would also help teams and venues prepare for a return to league action whenever this can happen.

I have attached these preliminary guidelines. Please could anyone who is interested have a read of these and let me know what you think needs to be added, removed or amended before we produce a final version.

These guidelines have been complied with reference to the suggestions that have been made on this forum and also from looking at the guidance that snooker and pool leagues are currently using.

Obviously these are produced to reflect the current Government guidelines and these will need to be updated for any changes to these as we go forward.

View Attachment

The first thing I noticed was the word meters which is American we use the word metres in this country.

The second thing which is impractical is the sanitising the balls and equipment after each leg. Who is going to pay the extra £1 or £2 for pulling the bar to sanitise the balls? Unless you don't mean sanitising the balls after each leg.

[Ros]

Sept 3, 2020 19:57:15 GMT Chunky Monkey said:

Just one point possible two.

• A player should not remove a ball from the tray and leave it on the table for their opponent at the end of a break

Why?
Both players are using the same balls.

And the offering of a drink at the end of the game? Why can that still not be offered?

I agree with both of these points.

I would also question that the players and scorer should wash their hands with soap and water before and after the game. Speaking personally, I have managed to avoid using the facilities in the pubs, clubs and restaurants I have visited since lockdown. I would like to keep it that way. A suitable hand sanitiser should be available to players/scorer (i.e. minimum 60% alcohol) and should be used before and after the game, possibly also during the game if the opponent is on a long break.

I would like to add that balls and hands should be dry before using the table, in order to protect the cloth.

Dave - if there is a spray sanitiser and bluroll handy, then with one player 'washing' and one player wiping, the balls can be cleaned in about 30 seconds at the beginning of a game.

[racehorse]

• The drinking of alcohol should be done in moderation and teams are encouraged to look after and respect each other at all times.

That point rules out many teams playing this year in the Brighton League :)

Only joking, good work as always Stu.

[Chunky Monkeys other half]

Ros you mention avoiding using facilities in places. As you know I work in a pharmacy and you would be much better using soap and water than using sanitiser, which should only be used when soap and water is not available!

[Ros]

Sept 4, 2020 13:07:59 GMT Chunky Monkeys other half said:

Ros you mention avoiding using facilities in places. As you know I work in a pharmacy and you would be much better using soap and water than using sanitiser, which should only be used when soap and water is not available!

I absolutely agree with you and always use soap and water at home. However, I also feel that the benefits of soap and water could be nullified by having to use the facilities in other environments, with the extra touch points that inevitably would be used.

[Chris]

So how are the ball runs sanitised ?

[davejones]

Sept 3, 2020 21:58:19 GMT Ros said:

Sept 3, 2020 19:57:15 GMT Chunky Monkey said:

Just one point possible two.

• A player should not remove a ball from the tray and leave it on the table for their opponent at the end of a break

Why?
Both players are using the same balls.

And the offering of a drink at the end of the game? Why can that still not be offered?

I agree with both of these points.

I would also question that the players and scorer should wash their hands with soap and water before and after the game. Speaking personally, I have managed to avoid using the facilities in the pubs, clubs and restaurants I have visited since lockdown. I would like to keep it that way. A suitable hand sanitiser should be available to players/scorer (i.e. minimum 60% alcohol) and should be used before and after the game, possibly also during the game if the opponent is on a long break.

I would like to add that balls and hands should be dry before using the table, in order to protect the cloth.

Dave - if there is a spray sanitiser and bluroll handy, then with one player 'washing' and one player wiping, the balls can be cleaned in about 30 seconds at the beginning of a game.

They won't dry in 30 seconds and if still wet will pick up dirt on the balls making some clean contact impossible

[NigelS]

Sept 4, 2020 20:24:31 GMT Chris said:

So how are the ball runs sanitised ?

If the balls are sanitised, not sure why the ball runs would need sanitising?

[Ros]

Sept 4, 2020 20:29:09 GMT davejones said:

Sept 3, 2020 21:58:19 GMT Ros said:

I would like to add that balls and hands should be dry before using the table, in order to protect the cloth.

Dave - if there is a spray sanitiser and bluroll handy, then with one player 'washing' and one player wiping, the balls can be cleaned in about 30 seconds at the beginning of a game.

They won't dry in 30 seconds and if still wet will pick up dirt on the balls making some clean contact impossible

Trevor and I have tried this out. We both had a handful of bluroll, I used the sanitiser spray on each ball and wiped it over, then handed it to Trevor, who dried it and popped it back in the tray. The balls were absolutely dry.

I didn't time it, but the whole operation was very quick and I estimate around 30 seconds - hardly more than when you change over the balls to a set of match balls.

[moppy]

Can't open file. Any other format available. Ta.

[moppy]

Got it now.

[iang]

First of all this is a good idea & following the AGM well done on getting it sorted out so soon.

2 observations from me


The SCBBA has produced this guidance to make the return of bar billiards as safe and COVID-19 secure as possible. We recommend that affiliated leagues and players follow these to migrate the risks of COVID-19 transmission while playing bar billiards.

Should this be mitigate.


• Formats should be adjusted so that players do not compete against more than one opponent during a match

Whilst I understand this thinking, this goes against most Leagues player short rules & could stop some teams from making a return to playing again.
Horsham have adopted a new version of this allowing teams of 3-5 players to resume playing. This wording would prevent this from happening.

[bigtj]

Firstly well done Stuart on getting these out promptly and taking a lead. These are guidelines and all feeedback is apprciated and I am sure the Sussex Committe will discuss the comments and amend the guidelines accordingly if required. We all want to get back playing in a safe enviroment and with an understanding of others feeelings, I do think we are a long way off of all venues being able to hold team games and from some teams being abke to field a side, but all the ideas for reduced player numbers is a positive by leagues. The figures for COVID are showing we are not through this yet and we are in a very big period with schools and universities starting to return and one school in Hov has had to send pupils home to isolate after a teaching assitant had a positive test.

We are seeing some people playing and some venues issuing guidelines on hoe to play safely and within guidelines, which is good. Please all just be sensible and mostly reespect others views.

[grant]

Sept 3, 2020 19:57:15 GMT Chunky Monkey said:

Just one point possible two.

• A player should not remove a ball from the tray and leave it on the table for their opponent at the end of a break

Why?
Both players are using the same balls.

And the offering of a drink at the end of the game? Why can that still not be offered?

Agree with Chunky on both these points - especially the one a about the drink offering.......

[StuC]

Thank you all for the feedback so far.

As TJ has said we will take this away as a committee and decide how to update these guidelines.

In the meantime have added my views to the points raised below.



“A player should not remove a ball from the tray and leave it on the table for their opponent at the end of a break”

When writing the guidelines have tried to remove as many unnecessary contacts of the table or equipment as possible, i.e. keeping these to the minimum possible to play the game. While it is true both players are using the same ball, in this instance you are touching a ball your opponent will touch straight away increasing the risk of immediate contamination. In most other instances there will be a gap between one player touching a ball before the other player does.



“Offering of a drink at the end of the game”

Again removed due to unnecessary contact (in this case with staff, or in some venues having to get up to order) for what could be just ordering a half for one person. Also believe the guidelines for some venues limit being able to order for another table.



“Meters”

Yes will change to metres.



“Sanitising the balls after each leg. Who is going to pay the extra £1 or £2?”

As has been said by Ros if the balls cannot be removed before the leg then this should be done as quickly as possible after the bar has been pulled to start the leg. Even if this means the leg has to be played to a shorter time.

“They won’t dry in 30 seconds and if still wet will pick up dirt on the balls making some clean contact impossible”

The risks of bad contacts after sanitising this may be something we have to accept in the short term that playing condition may not be optimal. Cleaning and sanitising may lead to a damp cloth and an increased risk of kicks (those who watched the World Snooker Championship will know even they suffered some issues with conditions with bad contacts and cushions not behaving as normal), but when the option could be between playing in less than perfect conditions or not playing at all these are the sacrifices we need to make.



“The players and scorer should wash their hands with soap and water before and after each game”

As Sandra has answered hand sanitiser should be used in conjunction with hand washing and not in place of it; as advised by the government and WHO.



“The drinking of alcohol should be done in moderation and teams are encouraged to look after and respect each other at all times”

I am just jealous Gary that I have to drive to each Brighton league match so cannot drink. Also do not want all of you getting drunk and trying to hug me while telling me how much you love me. I know you all do so the risk of contact is not required.



“How are the ball runs sanitised”

Spray

“If the balls are sanitised, not sure why the ball runs would need sanitising?”

The ball tray sits exactly below where players are standing while playing so is a big danger zone for contamination with people breathing while playing and picking up balls.



“We recommend that affiliated leagues and players follow these to migrate the risks of COVID-19”

Yes this should read mitigate and have changed this.



“Formats should be adjusted so that players do not compete against more than one opponent during the match”

I completely understand this goes against what leagues are trying to adopt in terms of players short rule and will take this for further consideration with the committee. This guideline features strongly in the snooker and pool guidelines and is also consistent with the current government guidelines of not meeting inside in more than two households. As said these rules are based on current situation and will look to relax (if possible) as we go forward.



One other major point to make is that, as I am sure most of you are aware, COVID-19 is a respiratory disease that can spread easier in indoor and poorly ventilated conditions. This unfortunately is where bar billiards will suffer, being played often in small pubs and during winter when windows and doors are less likely to be open. While there is a risk of catching the virus from the surface of the table or the balls; by far the greater risk will come from the teams sitting near to each other for an extended period of time, even if correctly socially distanced at one metre plus.

Generally the tone of what is being said is that some of the guidelines go too far in trying to eliminate, what I agree is a small risk, by cleaning and reducing contact. While happy to consider with the committee changing some of these points of playing very little has been said about the more general point of the guidelines for getting two teams safely seated in the venue.

[dillon]

Well.....should save me loadsa money if I'm not obliged to buy a drink for anyone that beats me. 😕

[StuC]

Did say these guidelines would need to be updated as the government advise changes and this is about to change in a major way.

Hopefully it is obvious but would just like to clarify that these are not official guidelines and have not been approved by the government for use.

If details are to believed it will now be illegal for gatherings of more than six people, unless it is at an approved event or "team sport". Therefore, as things currently stand, it is expected that playing a bar billiards match with more than six people will be considered illegal.
Now bar billiards isn't a "sport" as recognised by Sport England, but even so if the government approved a set of guidelines it could be a route to allow more than six to play a team match. However without having approached the government on this exact issue it is unknown if they would consider these guidelines satisfactory. 

Given the current situation, threat of an increase in infections over winter and the vulnerability of a large proportion of our players if we should be pushing to return to league play at the moment is another debate.

[bigtj]

Good words Stuart

[Chunky Monkey]

Cheers Stu, they are fair enough answers.

The way the country is going at the moment, I will see you in the 21/22 season.

[StuC]

Following the new Government guidance that has been announced this week, including the reply Sav has received, I am in the process of updating these Guidelines to reflect what is and isn't now possible.

I will then consult with the committee about these changes, including the responses and suggestions on here, so that we can publish a finalised version of the Guidelines next week.

Thanks

[StuC]

The final version of the SCBBA COVID-19 Guidelines are now available on the Sussex website.

These will be updated as required to reflect the latest restrictions.

Link to Guidelines

Nice work and summarisies the situation perfectly.