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Post by triplex on Oct 28, 2009 12:09:16 GMT
Div 1 P W L D LF LA Pts The Fox 4 4 0 0 15 5 19 Rushden Cons 4 3 1 0 15 5 18 Storm 4 3 1 0 15 5 18 Exiles 4 3 1 0 12 8 15 Cock A 4 3 1 0 11 9 14 Cobblers 4 2 2 0 12 8 14 Div 2 P W L D LF LA Pts Headlands 4 1 3 0 8 12 9 Cock B 4 1 3 0 5 15 6 Saints 4 0 4 0 5 15 5 Cock C 4 0 4 0 2 18 2
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Post by milko on Oct 28, 2009 13:14:15 GMT
Div 1 P W L D LF LA Pts The Fox 4 4 0 0 15 5 19 Rushden Cons 4 3 1 0 15 5 18 Storm 4 3 1 0 15 5 18 Exiles 4 3 1 0 12 8 15 Cock A 4 3 1 0 11 9 14 Cobblers 4 2 2 0 12 8 14 Div 2 P W L D LF LA Pts Headlands 4 1 3 0 8 12 9 Cock B 4 1 3 0 5 15 6 Saints 4 0 4 0 5 15 5 Cock C 4 0 4 0 2 18 2 That's interesting, you get a team win bonus point in your league then!!
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bigstew
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Post by bigstew on Oct 28, 2009 14:19:56 GMT
Div 1 P W L D LF LA Pts The Fox 4 4 0 0 15 5 19 Rushden Cons 4 3 1 0 15 5 18 Storm 4 3 1 0 15 5 18 Exiles 4 3 1 0 12 8 15 Cock A 4 3 1 0 11 9 14 Cobblers 4 2 2 0 12 8 14 Div 2 P W L D LF LA Pts Headlands 4 1 3 0 8 12 9 Cock B 4 1 3 0 5 15 6 Saints 4 0 4 0 5 15 5 Cock C 4 0 4 0 2 18 2 That's interesting, you get a team win bonus point in your league then!! Yea one for a team win and one per leg you win. So a victory guarantees four points! :)
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Post by Colemanator on Oct 28, 2009 15:11:31 GMT
That's interesting, you get a team win bonus point in your league then!! Yes Keith, we have done it this way for some years now, seems to work ok. we first had bonus win points for away wins only, fair enough at the time but then when the league introduced each team playing each other three times it meant that some teams played more away games than others, which in turn made the league a not very level playing field ::). we have recently introduced the four man rule as like other leagues, this has helped virtually, if not all teams, to field on the night and not have to re arrange matches, i would like to see that extended to the four times allowed rule to five. I would also like to see even breaks in league matches which i believe would help the less experienced player get a go, and also for idiots like me who can't get the break back on his own table now and then ;D 8-) ::) :P :'( ;)
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Post by milko on Oct 28, 2009 16:10:06 GMT
That's interesting, you get a team win bonus point in your league then!! Yes Keith, we have done it this way for some years now, seems to work ok. we first had bonus win points for away wins only, fair enough at the time but then when the league introduced each team playing each other three times it meant that some teams played more away games than others, which in turn made the league a not very level playing field ::). we have recently introduced the four man rule as like other leagues, this has helped virtually, if not all teams, to field on the night and not have to re arrange matches, i would like to see that extended to the four times allowed rule to five. I would also like to see even breaks in league matches which i believe would help the less experienced player get a go, and also for idiots like me who can't get the break back on his own table now and then ;D 8-) ::) :P :'( ;) Ian, how do you work out who's home or away in the 3rd match, as it doesn't look as if it's on a neutral table? I'm not sure I like the idea of even breaks in league matches, as it's nice to see the top players struggle sometimes to get the break back against weaker opposition, so this helps the weaker or less experienced player have a better chance of winning. Every one of us has lost games at some stage in the past when we were unable to get the break back, that's what makes the game interesting and not boring all the time!! I also think that when a lower section side plays a higher section side they should get all 5 breaks, I think this is how the Jersey league do it.
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Post by Colemanator on Oct 28, 2009 16:22:48 GMT
Keith, we just do home and away once now, the three times matches were dropped years ago, 8-)
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2009 16:35:28 GMT
We do the same in Mid Sussex, point per frame plus bonus point for a match win: Gives the best of both worlds as everyone's frame counts, plus it's a team game so securing the match result has importance too.
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Post by hon Vice President on Oct 28, 2009 19:09:59 GMT
The Welly 4-pin league has one point for a win and an extra point for whichever team ends up with the highest aggregate score. So the phrase, we won 3 - 3 is oft heard; as the evening has a similar playing format, 5 games (4 singles and one doubles) and a 3 - 2 win can result in a 3 - 3 scoreline... Just one of the games many facets which never cease to amaze. ;)
And the equal breaks chestnut is now a mighty great tree in W Sussex; having been for many years an annual on the AGM agenda; it got buried a while back. The arguments would rage long into the night about the merits of equal breaks or not; as the case may be. Nothing changed. A couple of things which did change may be of use in leagues which are struggling to maintain numbers. The 4-man rule in Nhants is a little baffling - we run the risk of losing a team! W Sx adopted the idea that the team arriving short should be penalised and the team at full strength should not. Simple as that. The team at full strength has the option of deciding which player sits out in singles (format is 4 singles, 2 doubles - so teams can survive with 4 people anyway). Things stayed that way until individual rankings for performance over a season were introduced. Now; the player dipping out receives a win and the ranking points to go with it PLUS a score on the night equivalent to his / her average for the season to date and any additional ranking points accordingly. The points thing is less relevant if ranking is not part of the set up, but the team at full strength can, effectively, avoid the pitfalls of a blind draw by loading their bases (wow; SERIOUS cliche disease here) and no individual loses out either.
The other change was that to the revised format - 6 games on the night. An evening of 5 straight singles can get a little frustrating - get drawn first and after 20 minutes, that's it. Have a stinker and you stew for a week. With 5 games, a team of 4 players loses out, but with 4 singles and 2 doubles; teams which are struggling for numbers can manage just fine and everyone gets to play twice. A team of 5; lowest score in singles dips out in the doubles and plays doubles only the following week - or any variation on a theme. Some sides with the luxury of 6 players can offer up specialist doubles pairings. The evening is a little longer, but the interest is maintained easily. And being drawn first and 6th encourages sobriety. Nah; that was a joke! ;D
First and foremost, maintaining the league's status quo is essential. Encouraging new and ideally young players is a bonus. Making it easier to introduce new players without their being battered by the oldies helps to keep them coming back week after week.
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Post by Colemanator on Oct 28, 2009 20:55:31 GMT
A couple of things which did change may be of use in leagues which are struggling to maintain numbers. The 4-man rule in Nhants is a little baffling - we run the risk of losing a team! First and foremost, maintaining the league's status quo is essential. Encouraging new and ideally young players is a bonus. Making it easier to introduce new players without their being battered by the oldies helps to keep them coming back week after week. Well said fellow Fox, I have no doubt that Northants at some point in the future will have to go to 4 players to maintain the league, and alter the format to suit. The four man rule to my knowledge ,has been used at least 4 times this season already, and it's only four weeks old.
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BFG
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Post by BFG on Oct 28, 2009 23:56:29 GMT
And being drawn first and 6th encourages sobriety. Nah; that was a joke! ;D You had me worried by the controversial nature of your comment for just a second....glad I stayed for the punchline!!
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BFG
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Post by BFG on Oct 29, 2009 0:18:19 GMT
And the equal breaks chestnut is now a mighty great tree in W Sussex; having been for many years an annual on the AGM agenda; it got buried a while back. The arguments would rage long into the night about the merits of equal breaks or not; as the case may be. Nothing changed. A couple of things which did change may be of use in leagues which are struggling to maintain numbers. The 4-man rule in Nhants is a little baffling - we run the risk of losing a team! W Sx adopted the idea that the team arriving short should be penalised and the team at full strength should not. Simple as that. The team at full strength has the option of deciding which player sits out in singles (format is 4 singles, 2 doubles - so teams can survive with 4 people anyway). Things stayed that way until individual rankings for performance over a season were introduced. Now; the player dipping out receives a win and the ranking points to go with it PLUS a score on the night equivalent to his / her average for the season to date and any additional ranking points accordingly. The points thing is less relevant if ranking is not part of the set up, but the team at full strength can, effectively, avoid the pitfalls of a blind draw by loading their bases (wow; SERIOUS cliche disease here) and no individual loses out HANG ON!! Correct me if I am wrong!! The intention was never to penalise the team that was short!! >:( The intention was to reward the team that turned up week after week with a full squad however it was made up!! We have ourselves turned up short a player and famously snatched a 3 3 draw against one of our exceptional 1st division teams, not bad for a 3 man 3rd division outfit! The purpose was for the game to still get played with the consequence known prior. ;) After all within the rules there is no option for postponement for being a player short :-X I applaud any motion that allows the perpetuation of our wonderful game, however it is vital that any decision does not remove the motivation of teams to get hold of new players!! Many players have played for many years, how many are playing their 1st season?? I applaud 2 specific teams that I know of The Henty B a cracking bunch of youngsters (Littlehampton) The Winterton B (West Sussex OK captain is my son Nipper but no bias!) All under 30's Maybe sitting at a bar in the pubs and clubs is a young future world champion?........Did we do anything to get them to play??? 4 man rule is a great idea as a back up from what I see, but last season we grabbed 2 young lads playing pool to join us.......
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BFG
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Post by BFG on Oct 29, 2009 1:15:12 GMT
Yes Keith, we have done it this way for some years now, seems to work ok. we first had bonus win points for away wins only, fair enough at the time but then when the league introduced each team playing each other three times it meant that some teams played more away games than others, which in turn made the league a not very level playing field ::). we have recently introduced the four man rule as like other leagues, this has helped virtually, if not all teams, to field on the night and not have to re arrange matches, i would like to see that extended to the four times allowed rule to five. I would also like to see even breaks in league matches which i believe would help the less experienced player get a go, and also for idiots like me who can't get the break back on his own table now and then ;D 8-) ::) :P :'( ;) Ian, how do you work out who's home or away in the 3rd match, as it doesn't look as if it's on a neutral table? I'm not sure I like the idea of even breaks in league matches, as it's nice to see the top players struggle sometimes to get the break back against weaker opposition, so this helps the weaker or less experienced player have a better chance of winning. Every one of us has lost games at some stage in the past when we were unable to get the break back, that's what makes the game interesting and not boring all the time!! I also think that when a lower section side plays a higher section side they should get all 5 breaks, I think this is how the Jersey league do it. West Sussex is away team takes all breaks. Team playing against higher division gets breaks home and away. !st division therefore only get the break 4 times out of 26 matches. 3rd division gets 22 breaks.
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Post by Quagmire on Oct 29, 2009 7:07:20 GMT
On the subject of who gets the break I would like to see a lag off as in pool, the home player could play first playing of the spot as near to a white pin as possible then the away player . Nearest the pin gets the break. This would mean the break was decided on skill not luck of the draw and would give the away player a slight advantage.
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Post by hon Vice President on Oct 29, 2009 13:12:35 GMT
[ HANG ON!! Correct me if I am wrong!! The intention was never to penalise the team that was short!! >:( :-* The way things worked prior to this, the team arriving short handed - in contravention of the rules as they were, COULD find themselves at an advantage of sorts, with the blind draw determining which opposition player had to sit out the singles. Leading to the team at full strength having to sacrifice possibly their best player. That was an anomaly and had to be corrected, to prevent teams relying upon being able to gamble on the draw working in their favour and not bothering about encouraging replacements. There IS a penalty now; points are forfeited (unless the numbers can be made up by trawling the bar). And the element of luck has been removed. Instances of teams arriving short handed have reduced too, have they not? 8-)
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2009 18:00:02 GMT
This is quite an interesting subject!
In Cambridgesire they have the 4 man rule, however there is no limit to how many times it can be used. Also one player from the four is drawn to play again, where the blank was drawn.
The problem with playing 4 man teams will (for the time being) esculate the decline in this region as some teams have more than 4 players willing to play. I do like the Cambs system better.
I quite like Quagmires idea of skill used for opening break shots, like in pool. ;)
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BFG
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Post by BFG on Oct 29, 2009 19:10:59 GMT
There IS a penalty now; points are forfeited (unless the numbers can be made up by trawling the bar). And the element of luck has been removed. Instances of teams arriving short handed have reduced too, have they not? 8-) I would suggest not really! I think teams are more obliging over the day the game is played, not truly supported by the league rules.......but we are a friendly league! :-X As for the penalty now....no change....forfeit the chance of 2 points! The full team has the chance to nominate the player that takes the walkover......he receives the win and his average score season so far. As I said this rewards the full team in the circumstance but does not further penalise the short team so the best thing they can do is just rope someone in! My other point was using a 4 man style rule unlimited could threaten further the motivation to recruit. My measure is still how many players are playing their 1st season?
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Post by Colemanator on Oct 29, 2009 20:05:23 GMT
Time gentlemen please :o
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BFG
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Post by BFG on Oct 29, 2009 23:50:30 GMT
I hardly think so! ;) Another few hours until last orders! Never mind time!! ;D
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BFG
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Post by BFG on Oct 29, 2009 23:53:48 GMT
On the subject of who gets the break I would like to see a lag off as in pool, the home player could play first playing of the spot as near to a white pin as possible then the away player . Nearest the pin gets the break. This would mean the break was decided on skill not luck of the draw and would give the away player a slight advantage.[/quote Although in our league it would be fairly pointless!! They are 1st division because of their skill with the balls and cue!! ;)
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Post by hon Vice President on Oct 30, 2009 8:22:25 GMT
Unless of course, "nearest" included the option to clatter the peg, and drag it several inches while ball and peg remain in contact with one another! That would sort it. ;D
Johnny, the Cambs variation just goes to show how many variations we have around the counties when it comes to rules! I like the idea of having the 4-man rule with no restrictions on use; but maybe just for one season - the inference being that if teams are struggling, the Officers put their collective minds to finding ways to make life easier before the start of the next campaign.
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