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Post by BB Warrior on Aug 20, 2011 15:29:22 GMT
Sorry Keith, don`t agree with leaving it on. The club would have lost money having to employ someone to run the bar, plus all the electric that is used when running a one day competition. The steward was brought into the discussion and I think you`ll find he wasn`t that keen with so few people. You need to look at the broader picture, not just the Bar Billiards ;) When the Over 50's & 60's was played, the bar in the function room was not opened, players had to go through to the main club bar (interestingly, the prices seemed cheaper in there anyway..... :o) which I assume would normally be open anyway..... ::) I do understand that it does need to be cost-effective for a competition to be run...... however there does generally seem to be a lack of communication / publicity about the AEBBA Tournaments being held at Reading this year with the first "notification" about the Mixed Pairs being a post on here less than 3 weeks ago from somebody asking if there were any entry forms available..... :o There was no "official" reply to that and it was only thanks to the efforts of forum members that we had any indication of how many (or in this case few.....) people would be entering the competition. :'( Presumably, if it was not for the Forum, the organisers would be setting the tables up at Reading for tomorrow...... perhaps to find NOBODY turning up for the competition at all as, apart from the Forum and Nigel's Newsletter, there has been no communication to say that the Mixed Pairs was taking place at all. :o Colleen had booked a days holiday to enable us to take part tomorrow...... sadly, as she has to work most weekends, that is the only way that she was able to guarantee the day off work. She cannot cancel that day now and choose to work instead..... so the "free" day is lost. :P It is therefore very unlikely (due to work and other commitments) that we will be able to play if the competition is re-arranged for later this year...... and, even if it is, is it worth her booking another day of holiday..... or will it be cancelled again? ::) >:( Surely, the competitions are meant to be run for the benefit of the players....... many of whom contributed towards the cost of buying the tables themselves to keep these competitions alive at a time when they could have been lost forever. Will these people continue to support the competitions and arrange time off work / other commitments if they are likely to be cancelled at the last minute..... only time will tell with that one. :-/ However I do agree that you do need to look at the broader picture...... not just the electricity cost. ;) While having a grumble about lack of communication....... and poor numbers for competitions..... can I suggest that some organisers are a bit more proactive about getting entry forms out and informing players that a competition will be taking place....... some Opens seem to be "pushed" with early posts on the Forum, entry forms being put on the AEBBA Website in plenty of time and plenty of Entry Forms being taken to the other opens held earlier in the season...... 8-) ....and, as a result, generally have far more entries.... ;D ;D ;D Others seem to leave everything to the "regular posters" on the Forum, don't really bother to send out Entry Forms..... and then complain about lack of entries...... ::) Using the Berks Open as an example this year....... no entry forms available until 11th August and a closing date for entries of 21st August......little wonder that today (the day before the closing date) the total number of entries stands at only 37...... hopefully, the closing date will be extended and there will be a bit more publicity about it to give more people the chance to enter....... :D If not, then perhaps another competition at Reading is destined to be cancelled..... unless they play the Mixed Pairs on the same day of course! ::) :-X |
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David.G
Distinguished Member
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Post by David.G on Aug 20, 2011 17:14:59 GMT
I guess from reading between the lines of Dave's post that most of it is coming my way.
I have for the benefit of our game taken on all responsibility of running everything in connection with the AEBBA as well as the BERKS OPEN. Sometimes I really wish I hadn't taken on any of it.
Aebba Secretary - Aebba Tournament Director - Aebba Table Organizer - Aebba Table Delivery Driver Aebba Part time Treasurer - Aebba Dogs body to set up and pack away tables at all Tournaments - Berks Open Organizer. Not surprising I need a little help at times.
As for the Tournaments themselves don't we have a tournament calender written for the benefit of everyone. Is it that it only goes this far and that you are not passing on information to anyone local to yourself. Is it that I need to make and print Thousands of entry forms to hand out to every single player in the country so that they have at least been told of these tournaments. Yes! I have failed where the Berks Open is concerned. No! there is no apology for my failure as again there is no help from anyone in Berkshire. They have too much to do it seems and have no time for that sort of involvement.
Its almost as if the very few who actually love the game are the ones who do help, the ones who do get involved in keeping the game going, on the other side of the coin most players only want to turn up and play and couldn't give a damn about anything else, as long as they can play, lose, go home early that is all the time they can give. So that leaves even less time for actual involvement.
Lack of communication is something I have been trying to resolve, I Know I don't post on here very often and that needs to change, Finding time to change is very hard.
Maybe the time has come for the AEBBA to inject some young blood into the running of the Association. The game is diminishing very fast and needs fresh ideas to keep it going. I guess I've taken on too much and need to think things over for a while.
Sav. my apologies to you and your team for the re-butt. If need be you can return me to my previous roll as Member Only. I do the best I can, when I can, It clearly isn't enough.
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Post by Chris_Sav on Aug 20, 2011 17:26:19 GMT
Hi Dave,
You have my full respect and confidence as a man who does so much to keep the game going and look after a massive tribe of kids!! without you there would not be competitions at present.
The AEBBA Secretary should always keep his rightful place as part of the forum management structure.
Chris.
Typo edit GS
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2011 20:25:52 GMT
Dave,
Your achievements in bringing about a seamless transition into AEBBA ownership of tables and the current satisfactory hire and delivery arrangement are well documented on here - and appreciated by everyone involved in bar billiards at County level.
Having said that I have a certain amount of sympathy with the likes of BB Warrior over the sudden cancellation of tomorrow, as it does seem that it is the very people who are supporting the events are the ones who are being punished.
I would have thought a Mixed Doubles involving eight pairs would have been viable - a nice round number, in fact. Last year's County Div 3 seven-a-side between Berks B and Kent B involved two fewer heads - no-one said at the time that that should be cancelled, and it was a good day by all accounts.
tommo
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Post by SirKT on Aug 20, 2011 20:48:41 GMT
When the Over 50's & 60's was played, the bar in the function room was not opened, players had to go through to the main club bar (interestingly, the prices seemed cheaper in there anyway..... :o) which I assume would normally be open anyway..... ::)
Hi Dave, I think this might have been a one off, maybe Nobby couldn`t get anyone to run the function room bar. The Post Office club is what it is, for Royal Mail employees and their families. I`m sure if they kept opening up the Club side to non members, there would be a problem for the management. I know if I was a regular in the club and had to wait to be served because of strangers in the bar, I wouldn`t be too pleased.
I think this will be a one-off, I can`t remember the last time anything was cancelled (outside of an Open).
This competition should be better supported from certain counties, especially ones with plenty of Lady players. It is the only official AE Mixed Pairs competition after all. Perhaps County secretaries need to be approached to find out why people are not entering ??? Whether it be the venue , or the time of year? Should it be moved back to October/November time?
Hayley and I have had some excellent wins in this comp. and were looking forward to defending our title, but not with only 9 pairs :-/ Now i`ll have to go shopping lol :-X
As for the lack of advertising - yes it could be better, but I don`t think Dave A. is totally at fault here. All County secretaries should know when AE Competitions are to be held. There is a calendar (which Dave has mentioned) and it wouldn`t hurt if they plugged any forthcoming events on their respective sites.
As for Opens, yes that is down to the organisers from the respective Counties, if they want entries that is.
I`m sure that if Dave had had a little more time to spare, he would have done some entry forms to put out at the Bucks Open. I`m surprised he gets the time to do anything outside of home with his lovely big family. He earns my utmost respect ;D ;)
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2011 21:25:37 GMT
This competition should be better supported from certain counties, especially ones with plenty of Lady players. It is the only official AE Mixed Pairs competition after all. Perhaps County secretaries need to be approached to find out why people are not entering ??? Whether it be the venue , or the time of year? Should it be moved back to October/November time? That's a good point, and one I'd never considered: Why no pairings from Surrey, who have a profusion of lady players of the required standard ? There is no lack of interest there in National competitions, and I would imagine the answer would be that they don't want yet another trip to Reading with the Counties coming up. Perhaps if there were some added incentive - like prize money ? I recall that a couple of years ago trophies were not even awarded to the losing semi-finalists. :o Maybe this competition should be offered to a County to organise next year ? Surrey already do the BIOC Ladies on behalf of the AEBBA, they could easily fit a "BIOC Mixed" into their tournament schedule (in place of, say, their Blind Pairs) and you'd get a good local interest. It doesn't even have to be Surrey who take it on ( - Sussex ? Oxon ?) and it would be one less headache for the beleaguered AEBBA Secretary! |
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Post by BB Warrior on Aug 21, 2011 8:17:15 GMT
I guess from reading between the lines of Dave's post that most of it is coming my way. I have for the benefit of our game taken on all responsibility of running everything in connection with the AEBBA as well as the BERKS OPEN. Sometimes I really wish I hadn't taken on any of it. Firstly, an apology for Dave.... my comments were not meant to be a personally aimed at him, I certainly know that there is NOBODY who does more for the game than he does and greatly appreciate all of his hard work. 8-) However, as he rightly says..... he can't do everything on his own...... ::) Aebba Secretary - Aebba Tournament Director - Aebba Table Organizer - Aebba Table Delivery Driver Aebba Part time Treasurer - Aebba Dogs body to set up and pack away tables at all Tournaments - Berks Open Organizer. Not surprising I need a little help at times. As for the Tournaments themselves don't we have a tournament calender written for the benefit of everyone. Is it that it only goes this far and that you are not passing on information to anyone local to yourself. Is it that I need to make and print Thousands of entry forms to hand out to every single player in the country so that they have at least been told of these tournaments. Yes! I have failed where the Berks Open is concerned. No! there is no apology for my failure as again there is no help from anyone in Berkshire. They have too much to do it seems and have no time for that sort of involvement. ......but we all know that 90% of the people are always happy to leave the hard work to the "willing volunteer"....... even if a "volunteer" in the army is known as somebody who didn't understand the question! ;D Sadly, the vast majority of players do fall into the following category.... Its almost as if the very few who actually love the game are the ones who do help, the ones who do get involved in keeping the game going, on the other side of the coin most players only want to turn up and play and couldn't give a damn about anything else, as long as they can play, lose, go home early that is all the time they can give. So that leaves even less time for actual involvement. It has always amazed me that by the time the Finals are played at most Opens, there are usually only a handful of people left to watch them besides the players and the organisers themselves..... :o During the 4 years that I have been playing in the Opens, we have seen a drop in numbers at some of these competitions..... while others have maintained (or even increased) the same levels as in previous years. The Sussex Open always seems to be well supported..... the only Open (apart from Jersey) that has more than 100 entries and a reserve list every year. The credit for this has to go to the organisers (Jean & Nigel) who always make sure that entry forms go out early and the Open is "advertised" around the local Leagues strongly with entry forms being emailed to contacts well in advance.... as well as appearing on the Sussex Website and several of the individual League websites. As Dave says, there is a calender of events on both the Forum and the AEBBA Website...... in Sussex these dates are also shown on the Sussex Website and websites for Billingshurst, Horsham, Mid-Sussex and Worthing Leagues. I do not know if other Counties also provide this sort of information...... ??? With regards to the cancelled Mixed Pairs Competition, I have to say that I agree with Tommo.... Having said that I have a certain amount of sympathy with the likes of BB Warrior over the sudden cancellation of tomorrow, as it does seem that it is the very people who are supporting the events are the ones who are being punished. I would have thought a Mixed Doubles involving eight pairs would have been viable - a nice round number, in fact. Last year's County Div 3 seven-a-side between Berks B and Kent B involved two fewer heads - no-one said at the time that that should be cancelled, and it was a good day by all accounts. Sadly, there are only a handful of Ladies who regularly play in most of the Opens, their numbers are boosted at each Open by some of the local ladies, especially at Surrey. Perhaps we should not therefore be surprised that numbers for the Mixed Doubles have been dropping during the course of the last few years....... perhaps the decision to play the competition in the Summer Holidays when many people are away (or simply not playing in the Summer? ::)) was also wrong....... although it's disappointing that many of the people who asked for the AEBBA Competitions to be moved to a different date a couple of years ago are the ones who aren't turning up now! :P Personally, I would like to see all AEBBA Tournaments to be set up by "Entry Form Only"...... at least then the organisers would know 2-3 weeks in advance if the competition will be viable to run, rather than having to make a last minute decision. ::) I know from discussions with Dave at the Over 50's / 60's & Under 25's Competition that he is looking at alternative dates for that due to the lack of numbers in Reading for that last month..... perhaps combining those competitions with the Mixed Pairs would make the day viable..... ;) Alternatively, perhaps the suggestion from Tommo makes more sense..... Maybe this competition should be offered to a County to organise next year ? Surrey already do the BIOC Ladies on behalf of the AEBBA, they could easily fit a "BIOC Mixed" into their tournament schedule (in place of, say, their Blind Pairs) and you'd get a good local interest. ..... certainly the Surrey Ladies always support their competitions very well, which could give a boost to the numbers. 8-) ;D Some food for discussion at the next AEBBA AGM....... also something that could be discussed at County / Local levels to see what could be done to increase the numbers at AEBBA (and Open) Competitions in the future...... possibly even a topic that could be raised on a new thread here on the Forum? ??? 8-) |
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Post by barbelman on Aug 21, 2011 8:35:49 GMT
No-one, repeat no-one, does more for bar billiards in this country than Dave does and I feel it is a little disappointing that he should have to field criticism over what was an obvious and necessary decision. Financially and logistically it was a non-starter for whatever reasons.
He needs more support from all of us and especially from the rest of the AEBBA committee. Perhaps they should appoint a publicity officer to promote and publicise events, organise and receive entry forms and break Dave's roles down a little. The secretaries job as it stands is just too much for one person to do.
What is the state of the delivery drivers now? Do we still have the same numbers of volunteers or is DA doing them all?
If Dave resigns (which he obviously will do at some point anyway) who would be willing to show the same amount of hard work and reliable commitment - very few I fear!
Stick with it Dave - you have the highest level of support from 99.9% of bar billiard players who respect the work you do for us...(but just answer the phone sometimes - OK? ;D ;D)
cheers
Tony
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2011 9:33:37 GMT
Just to add that it was Dave - with his obvious enthusiasm and dedication to the game - who combined the two roles of AEBBA Secretary and Tournament Director into one.
After some initial teething problems he's made a success of both roles, and probably enjoys doing them in equal measure. We won't see his like again.
The situation we are faced with is dwindling interest in a certain few events, which is probably unavoidable anyway no matter how much publicity is thrown their way. As Warrior says, some events are thriving, the Sussex Open being a good example (where people are being turned away !) and I bet the Bucks were tickled pink when they had 80 entries this year: it was only a few years ago Bucks was at risk of cancellation and we were being asked on here for ideas to make up the deficit of funds......
The competitions at risk..................
1. Mens County at the lower level. Sadly the loss of one county (Cambs) and the 3rd Division reduced to just 2 teams last year. Something has already been done to rectify this for this year, and Dave should find the two weekends easier to run with a better balance between the days' play.
2. Alternative Rules. This had been suffering a decline in the number of entries in recent years, and then suddenly picked up last year.
3. Over 50s and Over 60s. The Jury out on this one: the year before last it was on the same day as the Grand Prix, and fitted in well alongside it, but this year it had a day to itself (coupled with the under 25s). The somewhat sparse entry was more exposed to public scrutiny, and the headcount is reduced anyway by several players being common to both Over 50 and Over 60.
4. The National Mixed Doubles. Well, if you check out the number of entries over the last seven years, the figures speak for themselves: 2005 - 31 pairs; 2006 - 22 pairs; 2007 - 19 pairs; 2008 - 19 pairs; 2009 - 15 pairs; 2010 - 12 pairs; 2011 - 8 pairs. It is patently obvious that this competition as it stands is in serious need of a fillip, before it gets confined to the dustbin of bar billiards history. :-/
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Post by Sparky on Aug 21, 2011 11:14:12 GMT
I would just like to add my respect and support to Dave Alder for the enormous amount of work he does.
It is understandable that some others feel frustrated, even annoyed, at the decision to cancel that was forced onto Dave (and others) and it has highlighted the need for more help and involvement by others. I cannot suggest how this could be achieved but hope that something can be sorted out before Dave looses any of the enthusiasm and dedication that has been behind all the good works he does.
Graham
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Post by Ros on Aug 21, 2011 13:40:05 GMT
Before commenting on this tournament, I would like to echo what the others have said about Dave: he does a really great job of keeping this and other tournaments running smoothly. 8-) I certainly really appreciate his efforts and make a point of always thanking him before leaving.
I can see a number of reasons why this tournament is struggling for entries:
This one won't be popular, but it's been said before - the tables are often very challenging at Reading. It's a long way to go to find that you can't get the break on any of the tables you play on, or you lose a score because you miss a ball by a country mile :-[
But the same set of tables can be set up to play well - how refreshing it was to go to the Kent Open for the first time this year and find great tables that rewarded good play, although they all presented different challenges.
The time of the year definitely did not help. There is one top lady player who does not play in the summer.
I did not enter this year, because I did not have a partner. The time of the year means there are lots of other things going on, as well as it being peak holiday season. That makes it harder to find people who are able to play.
Going on from that - before you point the finger at the Surrey ladies, perhaps you should ask if the Surrey men are interested?
There are no ranking points on offer for this event. Is this the only open National tournament that doesn't offer ranking points? What is the reasoning for this? The standard of this competition is such that it would be impossible to 'carry' one competitor very far - and if someone did get 'carried' to the occasional ranking point, they would be unlikely to be able to add to it from any other tournament.
So my formula for getting this tournament back on track would be:
1. Set the tables up to be a bit more generous (for all Reading competitions)
2. Put the tournament back to the autumn, where it used to be.
3. Give ranking points and actively encourage the men to enter this competition! ;)
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Post by Colemanator on Aug 21, 2011 17:37:51 GMT
I would just like to add my respect and support to Dave Alder for the enormous amount of work he does. Ditto |
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Post by milko on Aug 22, 2011 15:24:17 GMT
Personally, I would like to see all AEBBA Tournaments to be set up by "Entry Form Only"...... at least then the organisers would know 2-3 weeks in advance if the competition will be viable to run, rather than having to make a last minute decision. ::) I agree, this was one of my proposals a couple of years ago, but was voted against. This forum is for a guide only, as there’s no AEBBA rule to even let the Secretary know you intend to turn up to play in All England tournaments, not like Opens where you have to send your entries & monies in to get in the draw. I just hope no-one turned up last Sunday!! The above is why I stand by my comment that the Mixed Pairs should have gone ahead on that day. I also want to state that I’m not the 0.1 % that doesn’t appreciate the work that Dave puts in to keep the AEBBA going strong, he does a great job. Keith |
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Post by Chris on Sept 3, 2011 23:04:03 GMT
To Dave Alder and family.... as I know they support you and you are all truly stars, whom we take for granted and expect everything to be in place...Without you there would be nothing as you deliver tables, set up AEBBA competitions, run County Opens.
Like others I do have an odd winge, clearly never thinking about the bigger picture....
Having read this I can say that it is your response that should make us realise how truly lucky we are to have you and you bring us back down to earth, as without you there would be no County Opens or AEBBA.
Thank you :-* :-* :-*
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