new member mayhem

[petetheplumber]

AS a new member i thought id test the caliber of the other mambers by throwing a fly in the ointment and ask a question on "COACHING" So here we go guys and gals.
Coaching is frowned upon but theres nothing in "THE RULES" to say its ilegal. Surely the rules are there as a guidline as to how to play the game in a sportsmanly manner|. If everything had to be wrote into the rules we would spend all our time reading them and not playing. Ok we all set out to win but its got to be an empty victory if you need help surely. We all shout encouragement like "good shot" well done" or "ah bad luck" but that isnt coaching its encouragement Telling players what ball to hit and how, blatent coaching has got to be outlawed eh, Or am i wrong? ???

[Colemanator]

This issue has been debated on here Pete, at this moment i don't have time to trawl through the posts to show you, maybe somebody will and point you in the right direction.

[Hammy]

It should be outlawed Pete. Encouraging yes...............showing people shots no! >:(

[Chris_Sav]

Hi and welcome PTP.

You are correct in saying that there is nothing in the rules to prevent coaching of a player at the table.

If you look at the prototype AEBBA rules in that board, you will see no coaching has been added to the new rules that I produced and will shortly be debated by AEBBA.

The problem is what punishment if someone continues to do it?? Can you penalise the player on the table?? not really as the coaching could deliberately come from opposition as well as helpful from friend.

Sav

[doug]

During a very recent Sussex Interleague match we witnessed some blatant coaching. With hindsight we should have said something to the person involved but we didn't. Good job really as it appears NOT to be against the rules but is in fact just very bad sportsmanship.

Doug

[Sparky]

doug said:

During a very recent Sussex Interleague match we witnessed some blatant coaching. With hindsight we should have said something to the person involved but we didn't. Good job really as it appears NOT to be against the rules but is in fact just very bad sportsmanship.

Doug

Hi Doug

I believe Sussex County Rule 47 (Rules of play) is still in force which states :

"A player must not be coached whilst at the table. Breaches of this rule will result in the Player's break being forfeited"

I personally would have 'warned' the 'spectator' concerned that the 'player' would loose their score next time and that would usually sort it out, I would give this warning as I would not really want to penalize the player but it is the only realistic way of stopping someone from trying to use an unfair advantage.

Sav maybe this would be a good wording alteration for the proposed AEBBA coaching rule.

I'll wade in and agree with Sparky: that's exactly how I would handle it too. The player should have one let-off and if his/her coacher persists - well he/she knows who to take it up with concerning the loss of break.

It should be added that the player should not be entitled to ask -seriously - how to play a shot and get an answer that amounts to coaching. That should forfeit the break immediately.

[Sparky]

tommo said:

It should be added that the player should not be entitled to ask -seriously - how to play a shot and get an answer that amounts to coaching. That should forfeit the break immediately.

Tommo I agree with your principle but expect the quick witted will claim they asked as 'a joke' or were 'talking to themselves' and didn't listen to the answer anyway ::) and it would then fall to the scorer to interpret the intent (- seriously -) which is not ideal. In short I think the 'No Coaching rule' is good enough, as above, to deal with this as it could be used without warning.

No Sparky, I had it right. ;D

We had a chance to define it clearly and now you're clouding the issue. >:(

[hon Vice President]

Smoke and mirrors! ::)

Must say that the coaching I have received has been limited to the likes of "Blimey Steve, most people would have played a shot then!" Promting me to play one at the next visit. ;)

Away from the table; what's to stop a mentor talking through an error? Your young up-and-coming misses, or pegs a break. You are going to explain to them where they went wrong; surely? If the situation occurs again, the learner will think again. The last thing you will do is tut and say better luck next time.

Doubles pairs talk through things as they go; half of the knowledge gleaned about a neutral table surely comes from talking to your partner? Is this OK?

This is coaching. It takes place during a game and to all intents has the prospect of influencing the choice of shot at the next visit. (Do remember that few of us inhabit a BB world that restricts players to a couple of visits per game - the average score to win a game in the WSBBL is around 4k; but many are won with less!)

Every league is struggling to attract young players. Nobody wants to be battered week-in-week-out; nobody learns the game while watching an opponent profit from repeated errors, and while practice is essential, using your home table to learn can never prepare you for the 20-odd minutes a week that is spent in league competition. A gentle word of encouragement here, guidance there, away from the table; these things happen and long may they continue to do so.

Blatant instruction as a shot is being considered is bad; use of pre-arranged code, or even the phrase "Chase the red" to a beginner? Probably also bad.

Where does the desire to retain a newcomer become out of order??

Of course, should it be necessary to remind a seasoned pro what to do each time a break commences, then it's time to getire said pro to pasture; thereafter to enjoy retirement basking in the memory of past glories. :) Probably.

Good first posts Honchair, can see you are going to be an active participant in discussions, with plenty of positives to offer.

In the case in hand, I don't think anyone would see coaching whilst not at the table wrong, and I agree with all the mechanisms you have quoted for enabling this.

I myself have to take one particular team mate aside between goes on a regular basis, and remind him who he is and how people used to be afeared of playing him. And he's been going longer than me.

By contrast I was scoring the wife's game down at the one-day interleague recently and at one stage she had 2k going but left a ball right behind the 10 hole (as often happens ::) ) She said out loud "I don't know what to do now" and of course I wasn't allowed to tell her as that would have amounted to coaching. She then went straight through the black peg. >:(

So that's the difference, that's what we're talking about.