Week 4 - League 2007-8

Here are the fixtures for 24/10/07 :

Brewers Droops 4 Greyhound 1
St Francis 4, Watermill A 1
Windmill 1, Plough 4
Watermill B 1, CKRBL 4
White Horse 2, Hurst B 3
Sportsman 4, Brewers Bravos 1
Hurst A 3, Handcross Z 2

Hurst A 3, Handcross Z 2.

It has to be said that the spread brought out after the match was the finest selection of sarnies ever seen in these climes !
Tommo, under the diligent advice of the Colemanator, put his diet on hold for the evening and indulged in succulent coronation chicken and prawn mayonnaise sandwiches, all fashioned by the BB Reaper's own fair hand - with the bare minimum of help from his close family, apparently. And that was only part of what was on offer........

Oh the match............The Z's once again pulled off their party piece of snatching defeat out of the jaws of victory. Star performer really was Roy Wells, who turned in a chanceless performance against his luckless opponent.

Hurst 'A' 3, Handcross 'Z' 2

Peter Hall 4630, tommo 6360
Bob Hall 3220, MrMike007 3890
Roy Wells 7070, Alan Downs 950
Andrew Hall 2230, Johnny Haigh 1970
BB Reaper 7240, John Turner 1920

Well done the Hurst and thanks for a nice evening.

[Sir Jock o The Strap]

And the mighty brewers stroll on!!!!

Another fine performance from the invigorated brewers team, good to see us competing for a change!!!

Graham Sparksman 1760 Trevor Rees 3220
Lorraine Hall 4140 Neil Burchell 1700
Colin Humphrey 1540 Geoff Fairs 450
Richard Jeffrey 3270 Chris Watson 2020
Andy FW 4020 Peter Burchell 180

A good night from the brewers point of view although it has to be said that the Greyhound lads had no luck what so ever on our top, where on the other hand we seemed to get it all! Sparky still struggled with his new 'home top' allowing Trev to take full advantage!! Mother Hall gave no quarter to a struggling Neil and noddy won his match with possibly the worst shot of the season, scores tied, noddy attempted the thin cross double to the 200 with red that was an inch or two off the right hand cushion, he got it all wrong and ploughed the white and then the black, leaving poor old Geoff with the red ball smack bang in front of the black peg, with enough air between red and black to slip a fag paper in. Geoff game fully tried to play the red but got too thick and black pegged, match to noddy!!! I didn't play particularly well, and Chris should have driven home his advantage, I lost the one up on my own top twice but managed to stay in front. AFW struggled to get going against Peter and was in danger of losing the tie until Peter managed the Greyhounds second black peg of the night to which Andy promptly took advantage off and killed the game off.

A good night as I say, but could have and maybe should have gone the other way, up until the black pegs those games were very close!!! Noddy undoubtedly wins the nights worst shot prize, but a wins a win as they say. The Greyhound lads took their defeat in good grace and full credit to them.

Brewers 4 Greyhound 1

[Sir Jock o The Strap]

According to Master Bateup the Sportsman beat Los Brovo's 4-1.

come on Adam post the match break down for us!!!

[TIR]

Well done Droops you certainly deserved three of your four.

Poor Geoff our last minute stand in had no luck at all coming over from Uckfield to be beaten by the results of a foul shot.

It seems a pity that you cant put a player back in if you dont fancy the table after a foul.

The 'incident' certainly sounds unfortunate, though not challengable as the rules stand.

You have raised a valid point though, TIR, and we could have done with you on our earlier discussions on the AEBBA Rules (see separate board exclusively for this.)

[Q]

Surely Geoff would have been better playing a 'miss' but then so could Colin and we would see the same thing throughout until the bar dropped.

Needs a rule

[NigelS]

q said:

Surely Geoff would have been better playing a 'miss' but then so could Colin and we would see the same thing throughout until the bar dropped.

Needs a rule

Surely it is the person who is behind that should attempt to clear the ball in question. If continuous misses are made then the person who is infront at the time will win, so he has not motive to move the offending ball.

[TIR]

I thought the scorer could call a deliberate miss or is that only at the end of the game.

[NigelS]

tir said:

I thought the scorer could call a deliberate miss or is that only at the end of the game.

This is AEBBA rule 32
Deliberately foul shot.

If, after the bar has dropped, a player in the opinion of the scorer deliberately plays a ball directly into a hole without touching another ball, then the ball should be retrieved and the other player allowed to play it. Any additional coins required to do so should be provided by the player deemed to have played the foul.

True Nigel,

But I recall that when discussing it on the AEBBA Rules thread, it was pointed out that the wording is such that it only applies after the bar has gone. Which some of us thought odd.

As you say, the onus is on the player behind to 'do something' ie 'make the play' but then as Q says, in a situation where it is dangerous for either player it could go on like that for the rest of the game.

Definitely one that should be looked at amongst Sav's "What have we missed ?" items.

[NigelS]

I would have thought it is 'after the bar has gone' because a deliberately sunk ball without hitting another is not going to be able to be used by the opponent for scoring and therefore a bit unfair. During normal play though the ball will come back anyway.

If the score is close and the only ball on the table is touching the black peg then I can see a problem with how to proceed as neither player has an incentive to move the ball. How that is resolved by a ruling is very difficult as I am not sure forcing a player to attempt the offending ball is fair or realisitic (I am sure I could continue to miss a ball by a small margin each time if I wanted to).

I think it needs a rule something like "if both players have failed three times each to make contact, the scorer will declare the frame void and the game will be re-started."
Much like a draw by repetition (stalemate) in Chess.

I believe such a rule exists in Snooker and Pool, where a re-rack is ordered.

Before you say that this disadvantages a player way out in the lead, he only has to touch a ball marginally once in three attempts to keep the frame alive. A reasonable challenge ?

[NigelS]

tommo said:

I think it needs a rule something like "if both players have failed three times each to make contact, the scorer will declare the frame void and the game will be re-started."
Much like a draw by repetition (stalemate) in Chess.

I think that would probably be ok. If someone was 10k down they could then deliberately miss the ball in the hope of a re rack. But if i was the one 10k in front I would just play a ball up the table and not pot it down a hole, if then my opponent deliberatly pots the next ball down a hole without contact I would simply hit the ball I had just left up to avoid the 3 misses in a row. Therefore you would be forcing the player with the lower score to make the play, as it should be.

If the scores are close both players could either leave balls up on the table to score from or miss three times and a re rack could be offered. Also we would need to make it clear whether a re rack should be offered or forced, if there is not long to go a re rack may not be appropriate, if over half the game remain a re rack may be the better option.

Not an easy one this, and fortunately very unlikely to ever come up as even if there is only one ball on the table and it is touching the black one player is normally in the ascendancy. However rules should cover every possibility, and strange things do happen on a bar billiard table!

[iang]

White Horse 2 Hurst B 3
difficult night where the balls quickly gathered down the back of the table & getting the break back was almost impossible so some very low scores. It was made into an entertaining evening by the new Manageress Amy who had a day off & was very exuberant & vocal in her support of her team & even cuddled Ian Powell :o :o

Sounds pretty normal for a visit to the White Horse - apart from coming away with the win - well done, your team.

Re the previous post by Nigel, I agree 100%, but this good work could be wasted by being on an inappropriate thread: Perhaps a senior mod can transfer our little discussions on this Rule to the AEBBA Rules thread ?

[Sparky]

Tommo, I could move the entire thread to the AEBBA section but would lose it from Mid Sussex so I have started a thread in the AEBBA where I have copied/pasted the relevant posts, so a continuing debate can happen.

If this is not satisfactory I will delete the new thread, just let me know.
Sparky

Thanks, Sparky, for your response.
It does look a bit weird, but it's really for Sav's benefit, so never mind - it can always be tidied up later.

Just to add that Sav has put much effort into the AEBBA Rules with very little appreciation and co-operation from what I have seen so far: A general apathy seems to be the order of the day.

[Sparky]

I agree with you Tommo but as the saying goes 'you can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it drink' and I believe that some who show apathy now will , at some time, moan about the rules and I'm sure you can guess what I would say to them (in the nicest possible way of course ;D).

The customary three 'missing' results - and official write-up for these three, courtesy of Mr Roy Wells :

Windmill 1, Plough 4
Plough move into the top position on their own after an away win at Windmill which saw Geoff Parsons hit the highest away break this season. All things went well for the leaders, winning the first three games thanks to Keith Potter, Mark Webber and Malcolm Fuller. Steve Smith stopped the rot for the home side in a captains’ game. His opponent’s opinion of his own efforts are unprintable. In to the last and this where Geoff Parsons hit 7950 to lead the score table.

St Francis 4, Watermill A 1
Watermill A slipped badly down the table after a rejuvenated Saints side played at home. Matt Geal opened Saints account, winning the first followed by John Willis taking what was to be Watermill’s only point. Saints then took the next three with wins for Ray Fogwill, Chris Little and Shaun Morris who hit an impressive 7340.

Watermill B 1, CKRBL 4
Kleiners share third place with a win away to the Watermill newboys. Derek Taylor took the visitors first game by the narrowest of margins, just 10 points. Jenny Edwards and Shaky Coles then took the next two to sow up the match. Gavin Boyd spared the newboys blushes with his team’s only point but Kleiners skipper, Peter Edwards, mopped up with a win in the last.

...............and of course, the up-to-date table:

Team played won points
Premier Division
Plough 4 4 21
Hurst B 4 4 19
Watermill A 4 3 17
CKRBL 4 3 17
Greyhound 4 2 13
Handcross Z 4 2 13
St Francis 4 1 9

Division 1
Droops 4 4 22
Hurst Club 4 2 15.5
Sportsman 4 2 13.5
White Horse 4 0 9
Watermill B 4 1 8.5
Windmill 4 0 6
Bravos 4 0 2

The players' list has a number of people on 4 wins from 4 starts but is topped by Trevor Rees with an average score of 4980
Lorraine Hall, with 3 wins from 3 starts and an average score of 4807 leads the division 1 contingent.

[jen]

:) ::), Ok message received, will try to write up the matches for CKRBL, bit of struggle at the Watermill, decorators had been in, table in wrong place but what the heck, we got on with it!!., no big scores, Derek dragged a win with a fine margin of 10. then it was my turn, i just kept adding little scores each time at the table but tough going with rolls going every which way!!!!, Shaky well must be beginers luck, gets the break and yet again plays one of the best games of the evening, Ted well he was unlucky the swerve go the better of him, slingshotting the ball around the 10 pocket back at the Black peg, he then manages to get the break back and closes down the game but could just not get enough. Pete well can't remember much about that game, but he won so I suppose he did ok.
there 1st match report by Jen.
will try to do these each week, they can only get better i hope!!
;D

[Q]

Nice one Jenny, good to see you posting.
Bernie