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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2009 23:25:08 GMT
Just curious how other leagues view their tables playing condition. Just don't seem to ever play a decent Away table in Cambs. It spoils the fun if their is any that is.
Just a PoV but shouldn't all teams try and preserve this dieing game by at least taking pride in their tables playing condition? I most certainly would never allow our home table to be 90% or lower, but I guess it's a different mentality with teams :-/ Shame.
No picking on names or places though, but generally in your league what are the playing conditions like, just a curiosity question. :)
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Post by H on Jan 6, 2009 0:31:28 GMT
Quite honestly Jonny, a good table is a rarity these days. Most away tables are a challenge. My Mid-Sussex league average is built generally on big scores hit at home combined with my best effort away. I find it is best just to realise, when playing away, that every table can't be the same, and trying to adapt to different conditions can be beneficial when it is needed. You are not alone. I would say 75% of teams don't look after their tables and this is a fact that has to be accepted.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2009 10:01:17 GMT
Quite agree with all that has been said so far on the subject, and just to add that the better tables seem to be where there is someone who makes it their business to look after the table with tender loving care.
If you go back 10 years in the Mid Sussex league, the best looked after and consequently the highest scoring top was at the Windmill, Crawley, and the guy who was in there almost every night looking after it was Neville Edwards (sadly no longer with us).
Going back much further in time, when I used to play in the Billingshurst League, we used to pride ourselves in having a good table at the Six Bells (looked after by Arthur Cheesman) and the Railway (Charlie Francis).
Back to Mid Sussex, and the current time, well H manages the Laughing Fish and is obviously able to lavish his attention on the table, and the Hurst Club gets looked after by a selection of Halls (Papa, the Reaper, BobHall) - all of whom want it playing as well as possible, and it is without question the highest scoring top on average.
For my part, I have great admiration for any guys who dedicate themselves so much to the cause, and I try to do the same at Handcross Club and will be in there at 7pm on Wednesday with my spirit level, brush and block and wipes to make sure that it is as good and honest as circumstances permit (by which I mean that over Christmas it may have been moved and/or had disco equipment put on it !)
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Post by Chris_Sav on Jan 6, 2009 10:44:27 GMT
Hi, Agree on what has gone before. Historically players that look after their tables (in recent years) more than a bit of basic levelling are in the minority. Interestingly in my league, now that the tables are owned by the league, I believe they are looked after better and the dogs have been dealt with. The results certainly suggest it Average Player Score (Winning or losing) | 2007
| 2008
| Division 1 Division 2
| 4250 2480
| 4590 2770
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Sav
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2009 16:52:40 GMT
I would say 75% of teams don't look after their tables and this is a fact that has to be accepted. I agree with everything said however this quote I can't. If people who choose not to even attempt to brush and level their table for a league match should do better or this game will continue down the same road. I just can't accept this, maybe I'm the one with the problem and not the tables but honestly their is hardly any passion anymore in table standards from what I see. :(
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Post by H on Jan 6, 2009 17:03:23 GMT
The wording wasn't great on that quote, I did post that after a skinful last night - i agree it shouldn't be accepted. Table care should be encouraged amongst all BB teams!
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Julian Dale
Full Forum Member
Yes, my teeth really are that white ;-)
Posts: 70
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Post by Julian Dale on Jan 6, 2009 17:06:55 GMT
Johnny, I assume you're upset at the standard of the table in the Nelsons Head last night? I think you caught us on a particularly bad week. The table had been moved over Christmas and New Year and even though it was back in the same place as usual, the uneven floor and variable temperature in the room makes it a nightmare to level at the best of times, hence how bad it was rolling out. I've heard it was very poor, but at the end of the day it's the same for both players.
Unfortunately I was in Birmingham last night so couldn't make it, and neither Daz or Earle had time to prepare it properly before the match. I'm sure if you'd played us any other week the table would have been up to scratch. Having said that, we get it as level as possible before a match and with the temperature changing as the evening goes on and all the leaning on and pulling of the table, it always ends up worse by the end of the evening. It doesn't help that the Nelsons is a busy pub and people lean against the table all the time. If we had the table in a quiet corner of a large pub, it'd play very well, but it's in a popular part of a small pub, so we have to make do.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2009 18:40:51 GMT
Hi Julian,
I am not targeting your table, this is an accumilation of poor table standards over a 7 year period of playing in the league.
I understand the difficulty you had on Monday night with people ill and yourself in Birmingham. Your table was not in the "average" standard but it is certainly not the reason for this thread.
I was only curious as to other leagues around England and if they have similar issues with tables. I have certainly not gone out to point the finger or blame specific people.
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Post by davejones on Jan 6, 2009 22:09:39 GMT
What an interesting subject. These are the stats from the Worthing league regarding table standards. the table below is matches with both home and away scores added and an average per table.
Table Scores
Team Total Averages per match
Division 1
Duke of Wellington 184780 61593 Marquis B 172640 57546 Three Horseshoes A 158380 52793 Swan A 150660 50220 Swan B 143440 47813 Marquis A 135480 45160 Stadium 116150 58075 Three Horseshoes B 115870 38623 Windmill 106750 35583 Schooner C 84010 42005
Division 2
Dolphin 74070 18517 West Tarring Club 68590 17147 Marine View A 68140 13628 Schooner B 68050 22683 Henty 66810 16702 Romans 61910 20636 Olde Coach House 30600 15300 Marine View B 27110 13555
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Post by H on Jan 6, 2009 22:56:32 GMT
Most Worthing tables are far better looked after than in other leagues, because I think its safe to say that every team has caring players who look after their tops...
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Post by BB Warrior on Jan 8, 2009 10:45:58 GMT
I would agree with H that most tables in Worthing League seem to be better than either Mid-Sussex or Lewes Leagues...... although tables in Mid-Sussex have improved overall this season.
I can understand that some teams to do not the experience to set up a table properly and also that some venues have problems with tables being constantly moved and I think that you have to accept that when you play there and make the best of it.
[last sentence removed in case it might have been misconstrued]
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2009 11:01:22 GMT
I couldn't agree more.
I think we should also consider that some of the tables may have inherent faults which aren't obvious, like cracked slates.
Remember, we're using a commodity that is 60 or 70 years old - bar billiards tables are amazingly durable, considering those circumstances.
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Post by H on Jan 8, 2009 12:37:27 GMT
Indeed. For example, the slate on the fish table is very slightly bowed, so however I set up the table, a roll can't be avoided - I just try and minimise it and make sure the table is playing consistently - its not ideal, but its a still a potentially high scoring top, even for someone who has never played on it as Shaun showed last night!
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Post by Chris_Sav on Jan 10, 2009 19:47:52 GMT
Indeed. For example, the slate on the fish table is very slightly bowed, so however I set up the table, a roll can't be avoided - I just try and minimise it and make sure the table is playing consistently - its not ideal, but its a still a potentially high scoring top, even for someone who has never played on it as Shaun showed last night! Normally fixable by bracing the slate Sav
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Post by BB Warrior on Jan 11, 2009 7:32:20 GMT
I would agree with H that most tables in Worthing League seem to be better than either Mid-Sussex or Lewes Leagues...... although tables in Mid-Sussex have improved overall this season. I can understand that some teams to do not the experience to set up a table properly and also that some venues have problems with tables being constantly moved and I think that you have to accept that when you play there and make the best of it. [last sentence removed in case it might have been misconstrued]Since my last sentence was not aimed at anybody in particular, I really don't see why it was removed, especially as it was not even as "inflamatory" as some of the comments made above. ??? ::) >:( The whole point of my post was to say that most teams do try to make the best of their tables and make it fair for both teams to play on. Some are better at setting up tables than others and some have more problems to overcome to achieve a good top. I have no problem about playing any table that is "fair" to both teams and where the home team have made an effort to get it playing well. 8-) But, it is the teams who either don't bother to try to prepare the table or (in isolated cases) those that deliberately change a table to make it difficult for their opponents that make me angry. >:(
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2009 12:48:26 GMT
You have reiterated the comment in your last sentence, which was subject to the edit.
The reason for the edit was that someone did take it personally.
Now that you have qualified it with the words Since my last sentence was not aimed at anybody in particular it can be allowed to stand.
Taking the comment as a generalisation, as something prevalent in the bar billiards world, I am in agreement with it.
However, your timing was unfortunate, as it came on the back of a separate discussion on a specific table, and could have been taken as a slight on the team(s) involved.
As you should be aware, Forum Rules don't allow personal attacks or 'flamings' of its members.
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Post by H on Jan 11, 2009 14:26:23 GMT
While we are on the subject of table standards, someone needs to give Tarratt a right kick up the rear because their tournament tops are a disgrace!!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2009 18:14:21 GMT
To pick up on this comment about the tables supplied for the weekend, yes, one table with 'proud pockets' and another with a collapsing ball tray - questionable quality to say the least.
Had to laugh when someone offered the view that the best two tables in the room were the Hurst Club own table and the one loaned from the Sportsman. ;D They were probably right.
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Post by specialone on Jan 11, 2009 20:38:11 GMT
A question I recently cleaned the pockets on the Saints table, they were filthy. They are now far more whippy, which is always the result of this action. Have I done the right thing?
Unlike most players I do not despise whippy pockets, and do not believe they are the work of the Devil. Maybe they reward accurate potters who can control their pace, and penalise 'crash it about' merchants. Looking forward to Wednesday when I am bound to peg all my scores and loose, then Tommo reminds me of this post. Can not believe I have entered a debate about table standards. God I am bored. Shaun
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2009 20:56:08 GMT
Sounds like you borrowed a can of Sparky's Patent Ball Repellant for cleaning the pockets.
Agree that cleaning pockets doesn't necessarily make a table easier to play. But I've found that cleaning the balls does. ;)
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Post by ponytailguy on Jan 11, 2009 21:00:48 GMT
hi shaun
if you buy some raw linseed oil and clean the pockets and then wipe some of the oil on wait 15 mins and wipe any excess away with a dry cloth this should make the pockets grip the balls better and therfor less whippy hope this helps
bravo
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Post by H on Jan 11, 2009 21:21:26 GMT
On the subject of whippy pockets, there are extremes - especially whippy pockets on a slow table - nightmare - I have hit many perfectly accurate shots at the correct pace that have whipped out before so I don't entirely agree with you shaun, but there is something to be said about penalising the "crash it about" merchants!
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Post by Sparky on Jan 11, 2009 23:06:01 GMT
hi shaun if you buy some raw linseed oil and clean the pockets and then wipe some of the oil on wait 15 mins and wipe any excess away with a dry cloth this should make the pockets grip the balls better and therfor less whippy hope this helps bravo If you really want to use Oil then clean the pockets first, if done frequently usually only requires clean water then dried with clean dry cloth, then use the 'smallest' amount possible of Boiled Linseed Oil (not Raw as it is much slower to dry, ask any painter/builder who has used it on Oak) then wipe completely dry, as told to me by Mario many moons ago. I stopped using this method as I could not do this to the table as frequently as it needs (weekly) as it will attract the dirt even quicker. The real downside is if too much oil is used and so transfers to the balls and the inside of the table but worst of all is it ruins cue tips, which happened to me when wrongly used by another. My preferred method is the occasional use of Arramith Ball Cleaner which seems to keep the pockets clean for a long time, (only needed to do it twice on both of the tables I care for this half season) with just wiping clean needed in between, and of course is the best thing for cleaning your balls which again is infrequent.
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Post by captain nige on Jan 12, 2009 6:13:57 GMT
the standard of tables are not to bad in the lewes leauge (( brewers being the best...................only jokeing ))
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Post by Chris_Sav on Jan 12, 2009 7:08:25 GMT
Fully agree with Sparky on this one.
I never use oils or silcon on our tables. I believe the oil collects on the ball runs, above and below the table, and causes more problems with black lumps of muck etc. than it solves.
Damp cloth is all I ever use on the cups and a plastic scourer if heavily soiled, same with the balls. If it does not evaporate, do not use it!
Sav.
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Post by Chunky Monkey on Jan 12, 2009 8:13:57 GMT
the standard of tables are not to bad in the lewes leauge (( brewers being the best...................only jokeing )) ??? ??? ??? hmmmmmmm ;D ;D
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Post by H on Jan 12, 2009 11:27:22 GMT
[ ??? ??? ??? hmmmmmmm ;D ;D I agree...
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2009 13:37:14 GMT
I have noticed some tables in our league have cuts in the holes to prevent whip, this is a good idea but also means some skill in pace is taken out as you can whack them and they go clean down. Oil sounds a bit wrong on a Bar Billiard table, wouldn't the oil on the ball affect the shots on other "clean balls".
Also we do try and make sure the balls are clean ;D 8-)
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Post by specialone on Jan 12, 2009 16:32:48 GMT
I used 2 microfibre cloths, one damp and one dry. Did the same with the balls. Gave up using 'substances' many years ago, think it was when I left Crawley. Do not agree with oils or cuts, but each to their own.
Do not think big scores should be the ultimate criteria on judging a table. ' If I can leave the red where I want it for the split, I will score a lot, which makes it a good table'. Not nessecarely so in my opinion. It just makes it a table well suited to a particular style of play.
Make it as straight as you can, then it is up to everyone to play it as they find it. Shaun
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2009 16:48:43 GMT
Make it as straight as you can, then it is up to everyone to play it as they find it. Shaun Amen to that. I used T-Cut to clean the gunge off the pockets of my home table, b.t.w. :o :o :o :o :o Turned it into an 18k table. ;)
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