Who were top team when you started out ?

When you started to play seriously, was any particular team dominant in your League ?Who was a constant thorn in the side of other teams ?

I started playing in 1968 and for the first seven years one team constantly swept the board of honours: The Five Oaks A team won both the Horsham AND the Billingshurst Leagues First Divisions right up to 1976 when they finally packed up. there was just one blip in all that time when in 1974/5 they finished runners-up in Horsham to a John Thayre-inspired Three Compasses.

Well I can recall the feeling of impending doom on an away visit to the Five Oaks, and the downcast journey home following the inevitable 5-0 thrashing.

Mr Tarratt junior (Rod) himself was a vital member of this team, the others being Jim Baker, Colin Brown, Mick Foskett and Sam Vandenbergh. All played Inter-League for either Horsham or Billingshurst and they were all county players too, Mick Foskett being Sussex captain. (Note -Sadly Mick finally succombed to a long-term illness at the end of last year)

Nowadays not even the pub exists - just a big car showroom at the Five Oaks junction. But whenever I pass by I always mentally doff an imaginary hat to the old place and its not-so-fond memories.

[Colemanator]

I started in 1983, Cosworth sports and social club Northampton were good, had a phenomenal player in Derek Norville, PF could tell you how good he really was, he packed it up in his prime! PFs team at the Wagon and Horses took some beating too.

[NigelS]

Well Tommo, I started in 1996/97 and the top team of the time were the Stadium C. Playing for them at the time were Steve and Sue Mariner, Jim Millward, Grant Tully, Mark James and Bob Toye. In the 10 seasons I have completed since then the Stadium C have won 6 titles. The Dyke (Tupps, Colin Smith etc) have won 3 and the Albion D (Terry Race, Molloy etc) have surprisingly only won 1.

Next year in Brighton sees no Stadium C and the Albion D moving to the Dyke and KT coming in from the 3 horseshoes in Lancing. Seems like we are starting a new era in Brighton

Obviously the White Swan when I started.

They have been champions since 1996. I started 1999!

[davejones]

The Crabtree B were the top team when I first started out.

We formed a local A side.

I remember when the Portslade league introduced the inter league C league.
Which were originally for under 21s and players not likely to get a game with the A's or B's.

We had a virtual under 21 side (one 22 year old).

We practiced at away venues a lot the weekend before a match and can remember visiting the Five Oaks.

Sam Vandenberg asked where we played we replied the Crabtree and he explained that you could only get the break by putting the red ball just past the spot and the white ball this side. Well we tried a few games like this and got the break consistently.

You can imagine his surprise when we tunred up a couple of nights later to play inter league. He said "what are you lot doing here" we replied "playing inter league for Portslade".

You can imagine his reply.

nigels said:

Next year in Brighton sees no Stadium C and the Albion D moving to the Dyke and KT coming in from the 3 horseshoes in Lancing. Seems like we are starting a new era in Brighton

Not mentioning the Brewery Tap eh out of modesty.

Bob Toye, eh, the man who could never say no. He was a Redhill boy, you know, and then he moved to Bolney and played for the Eight Bells and later my team the Queens Head. We teamed up one year in the doubles but lost on the last ball of the last game of the semifinal. I say he could never say no, 'cos one night he was getting p!ssed in the Eight Bells and I asked why and he said he was treble-booked for two billiards matches and a darts and so decided not to even try to choose which one to attend !

He also held the most fantasic garden party (barbecue with disco) that I've ever been to - really pushed the boat out with two marquees and endless supplies of everything and introduced me to the delights of garlic bread !
I can furthermore recall the Horsham minibus collecting him at Bolney for the Sussex One-day Interleague, and delivering him back. On the reverse journey he had handed round a bottle of Baileys which he had won in the raffle and it was all gone in the ten miles between Brighton and Bolney. On getting out of the minibus he was completely disorientated and we had to show him which side of the road his house was on !
An absolute diamond, and a real loss to Sussex when he moved out to the West Country.

[Chris_Sav]

Doun 'ere int Deal it was the Hare & Hounds. In 1968. Lily Thompsett, Wilf Roberts, Perc Burton, John Something and Wally Collingwood were the all conquering team to beat.

Wally was the man and I used to watch him in awe in my first season. Got drawn against him the quarter finals of the local singles and beat him, went on to win it in my first year.

Sadly only Wilf is still with us, but they are a group of guys I will never forget.

Sav.

[fazza]

Nice to hear some of the old names again! It makes me feel quite ancient myself. Leave it!

The top team in Northants in my early years were Brian Paul, Mick Gardner, Ray Jolley, Barry Price and Tim Carr at the Horseshoe in Sywell. They were closely followed by Chequers at Rothersthorpe which comprised Doug Worth, Colin Boyson, Eric Thomas, Terry Partridge and a.n.other (memory is going aswell).

The names of Phil Green and Pete Leeming keep coming to mind but they may have been in their B team.

It took three years before our team came close to them, but then we were in the top two every year but one for ????? years.

But we were a new side from scratch and I was very proud of our achievements, unearthing the best player (in consistency terms)that I ever played with.....Steve Biggs.

It never mattered whether he was practising, playing in the league, for the county side or for England, he always played the same. His one fault: he was a one-pace player, good for 1000 per minute, rarely stepping up the gears.

[barbelman]

tommo said:

When you started to play seriously, was any particular team dominant in your League ?Who was a constant thorn in the side of other teams ?

I started in Section nine of the Oxford league in 1967 (when there were 108 teams in the league that season BTW!) and the iconic team were the Lord Napier from Oxford. They were blokes of the calibre of Pete Wells, Alan Sales, Ron and Pat Webber, Ivan Roberts, Pete Kitchen. (Pete and Alan appeared in Yorkshire TV's Indoor League programme later)
Pete Wells was a great master of the game who taught many a youngster the finer points of the game and a brilliant ambassador of the game. I ended up playing at the Napier many years later and became a friend and team mate of Pete's, who was still a very capable player well into his sixties.
The Oxford league was extremely competitive in those days, and any of the Premier teams were capable of the winning the section - a rare situation in these days of diminishing leagues. :(

barbelman said:

I started in Section nine of the Oxford league in 1967 (when there were 108 teams in the league that season BTW!)

The Oxford league was extremely competitive in those days, and any of the Premier teams were capable of the winning the section - a rare situation in these days of diminishing leagues. :(

Wow Barbelman - someone who's been playing longer than me (by one year). And a league of 9 divisions ! I bet the Secretary never got a moment to himself.....
When I was a Secretary of a league with anything up to 48 teams it was bad enough, people would ring me just as I was sitting down to me dinner - but it was a labour of love really.

With that much interest it is so much more meaningful, you can get the local press involved, and even investigate local sponsorship. Sadly, as you say, the number of teams are diminishing everywhere and it is not the fault of the game but rather on outside pressures from brewerys etc.

In Sussex we have seen three Leagues fold, and several others reduce their set-ups: twenty years ago a division of much less than ten teams was not considered viable, but nowadays the committees are quite resourceful with what they have, and make the teams in a division of six go round twice, or combine two divisions into one with Premier teams highlighted and stuff like that.

[petem]

Whe I first started in 1978 there were 2 teams who dominated the Billingshurst league sadly both now a distant memory
The Mucky Duck A and The White Horse at Bury
The Mucky Duck won the All England pub championship in 1980 and included John and Peter Thayre,Colin Peskett,Peter MacNamara and originally Brian Picking
When I first started the Billingshurst league was expanded to 3 divisions and the Mucky Duck entered a B team of which I was captain in 1979-1980 and 1980-1981
As Tommo said the Five Oaks were a great team and they still had a team in the late 70's but nowhere near as good as they had been

Hi Pete,
I actually have some very good records covering the period you mention, and confirm that your information is entirely accurate.
But did you know that the Mucky Duck era (1977-82) was a comparatively brief (albeit with meteoric success) dalliance for some ?
Throughout the early seventies, the Thayres played at the Three Compasses, during which time they were runners-up in either the Horsham or the Billingshurst league a total of eight times - usually to the Five Oaks. They did however manage to win each league just the once.
(You should not leave out Tony Franks, by the way, he was part of the National championship-winning Mucky Duck team.)
I note that in 1981 they switched their allegiance to the Alfold Social Club, and I believe that John at any rate still plays there to this day. In that season, your Mucky Duck B were promoted to Division One (no 'A' team !) and finished a creditable 11th out of sixteen.
That season marked the start of an era of Horsham pub power in the Billingshurst League:
The Coot A were champions with the White Horse(Bury) team you mentioned runners-up. The team I left (to go to join the Mid Sussex League) - the Green Dragon - finished third.

[petem]

Hi Tommo
Yes I forgot about Tony Franks.I dont remember him playing much for the Mucky Duck in the league though
I finished playing in the summer of 1981 due to moving down to Worthing, so never got to play in the 1st division
I was asked to carry on as captain but during the 80-81 season we somtimes struggled to field a reasonable side and the travelling to and from Worthing in my old Avenger was not too pleasant
I Was surprised the A team left the pub but once the table was moved from the main bar into the games room at the back the atmosphere was never the same
The Coot were just emerging as a force in the early 80's somewhat due to a certain Mr J Slee playing

petem said:

The Coot were just emerging as a force in the early 80's somewhat due to a certain Mr J Slee playing

Indeed. With a nucleus of four top players (Slee, McCarthy, Turner, Gibbs) the Coot A were very strong. Before that of course they had been the Michell Arms and before that the Horse and Groom - both times being obliged to move on when the pubs threw the table out. I would have played with them but it would have been all too serious, so I started my own team of young lads up (yes, don't mock ! ;D) - with Dewdney, Holmwood, Parsons and we played as the B team. Eventually we moved to the Green Dragon, and then rather strangely when the Coot moved to the Green Dragon, the Green Dragon team moved to the Bell.

Guess who had a couple of seasons round about that time with the White Horse and topped the League's averages ?
v
v
v
v
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Why none other than Roger Taylor - Ozzie on this Forum.

[petem]

Hi Tommo
I know the names but when I was playing in the 2nd and 3rd divisions we hardly ever went to Horsham for matches
Most of our games were in Billingshurst and the surrounding areas.I think the furthest we used to go was the Crown at Capel
I did play at the Green Dragon once(think it was a doubles match) and I remember playing at a tiny pub in East Street which I think was an inter league match.
Too many years have passed,and a lot of alcohol has been downed for me to remember the name

Hi Pete,

You are going to be gobsmacked by this.

I can not only tell you all the Mucky Duck A team's record for the season in question (1980/81 - the one when Roger the Dodger finished top), but I can also confirm that you yourself finished sixth in the second division averages !

Here goes :

6th Pete McNamara P 29 W 19 L10 Score 138,900 Average 4789.6
9th John Thayre P 28 W 19 L9 Score 128,280 Average 4617.1
11th Peter Thayre P 28 W 20 L8 Score 128,340 Average 4583.6
14th Simon Butler P 26 W 17 L9 Score 115,250 Average 4432.7
19th Colin Peskett P 25 W 18 L7 Score 99,980 Average 3999.2

Div 2
6th Pete Mansfield P 29 W 23 L6 Score 88,570 Average 3054.1


80/81 was a good season for me, the records show that C.Thompson and M.Perrotten (now Mrs T) won the Horsham Mixed Doubles title. Our home venue was the Queens Head in Queen Street which leads on from East Street. Maybe that was the setting for the Interleague game to which you refer, I know that in that season Horsham A managed a rare (4-3) victory there over Brighton A - having been turfed over by them 0-7 in the away fixture at the Gladstone Arms.

[petem]

Hi Tommo
I had completely forgotten about this.Looking at the figures maybe I should have carried on!
Thanks for the information
I have just remembered the title in that year was won by the White Horse in a play off against the Mucky Duck.Both having finished with identical records I think

When I started in the Wallingford league the top team was the Black Horse. Surprisingly they used to get great scores and wins despite having a guy called Kevin Tuinstall in the team. Apparently, he has never really amounted to anything in the game which I think is a shame, he was a nice guy. ;)

reformedcharacter said:

they used to get great scores and wins despite having a guy called Kevin Tuinstall in the team. Apparently, he has never really amounted to anything in the game which I think is a shame, he was a nice guy. ;)

Never heard of a Kevin Tuinstall but a soundalike - also a nice guy - has just won three Opens on the trot, which does amount to something ! ;)

Now to Pete,
You're giving me plenty of exercise, I have to keep running upstairs for my bar billiards 'bible'. ;D

The "dead heat" actually occured a year before, in 1979/80. My records show that the decider (a single match on a neutral venue) was held at the Onslow Arms, and the Mucky Duck ran out 3-2 winners.

Strangely, these tied situations happened quite often in the Billingshurst League (but rarely elsewhere, probably because Billingshurst clung to the 2 points for a won match system).
Cherry Tree A and Three Compasses tied for runners-up in 70/71,
and Bat and Ball and Three Compasses in 74/75. The second division were also at it in 1996/7, with Alfold SC and Cricketers Arms having to play off for the title.

Full details of the "Mucky Duck" years as follows :
77/78 Second Division champions in first season. (White Horse won first division)
78/79 First Division Champions (runners-up were Michell A)
79/80 First Division Champions following play-off with White Horse
80/81 Third place in First Division, lost out to Coot A for runners-up spot on games difference. White Horse A were champions.

I stand corrected!

tommo said:

Now to Pete,
You're giving me plenty of exercise, I have to keep running upstairs for my bar billiards 'bible'. ;D

Wouldn't it make sense to keep it downstairs then ;) Or do you need the exercise ;)

See - it's that kind of thinking that will ensure you go far in this game. excellent observation young split! ;)

Just taken the book back upstairs, as yes, I definitely need the exercise.
And don't encourage him, Mr Asbo, some of Fazza's sarcasm is beginning to rub off on young Johnny. ;D

[fazza]

Please don't wish that on anybody Elsie, but just to point out that Clive is referring to a different Pete in this case.

Too confused!!

[petem]

Thanks Tommo,the memory is going!!!Pour me another large one
This Kevin Tunstall bloke is playing in the Worthing league this year.I would have said lets see how he gets on on the Elms table but now we have had it recovered I know!!