Playing Bar Billiards

Interesting question here, one that will have many answers i'm sure!
Maybe even some shocks :o

Why do you go out on a match night?

Do you enjoy the thrill of the competition?
Do you enjoy just having a knock about?

This is a survey just to see what your opinions are on the Wonderful Game Bar Billiards.

There is a difference to drinking with your mates and playing Bar Billiards on a match night. What is the true reason you drive miles every week to play a "dieing game"?

Here is mine, however please I DO want to hear yours too!

I go out on a match night, to better myself in the game. Experience and practice, so I can beat better players in higher stages of tournaments.
I enjoy the thrill of winning by a HUGE margin, scoring heavily and getting more consistant.

That is why I have voted for "To be World No.1" as that is my dream for Bar Billiards.

Please don't hesitate to respond with your answer. I would love to know what other peoples motives are when playing.

I'm going to with-hold my vote at the moment Johnny, because (rather like a Communist referendum ;D ) there are insufficient choices.

But I can honestly say that the whole team experience means a lot more to me than individual glory (and I've had some good personal successes in recent years).

The biggest thrill for me for a long time was my bruised and battered team coming through to win the Mid Sussex League by 0.5 point !
We had such a poor start to the season, struggling on our home table and losing 3 matches in a row; none of us could play the home table up to Christmas. We fought back with three good wins against top teams but then got mullered 0-5 at home by CKRBL. We got dumped out of the Team Knockout and the Charity Cup. After Christmas we played better at home but had a spate of disappointments away, where we kept losing 2-3, several times with me blowing the decider. We had people ill, and the team was never the same from one week to the next. But we had the happy knack of performing well in the real crunch games. Our last-but one game was postponed after we had turned up at the pub only to find that it was packed to the rafters for the Man U v Chelsea Champions League Final and there was simply no room to play.
We had to fit two matches into the last week, and gained a freak result (3.5-1.5) when one of my players chose the non-greedy option of a tie (last ball in the 100 rather than going for broke) - and then won the last match 5-0 when (the way the evening went) a defeat seemed more likely.
The gods were kind to us and the other results went our way to leave us shock Champs by the narrowest of margins.
Margo had joked with a week to go that we would have a team celebration round our house if we managed to carry it off, and we kept her to that. ;D
It is amazing that the nucleus of our team has stayed together for thirty years. But then none of us have any aspirations other than to keep enjoying it and to keep giving of our best. I can't really ask any more of them.

I would add that the whole experience of playing bar billiards has become more pleasurable as time has advanced, and somehow new friendships have been forged with players from other leagues who in the past have been nodding acquaintances, but now with whom somehow our paths seem to cross more often and whose company we enjoy. 8-)

[davejones]

I totally agree with you Tommo

Three years ago I had the opportunity of playing with one of my friends played with him 30 years ago wanting to form a side with a couple of experienced players, his young son and a friend of his.

The young lad is Adam Squires and it is such a pleasure seeing him progress during the last three years.

Of course he has a long way to go to reach the top but he will get there with the right people behind him.

[Q]

I think the general vote Johnny is that there are too few options to vote on...
Can we have an abstain button.

BTW Met up with a group of 4 deaf people from Lincs last night, down here with a large group of deaf kids on an 'adventure' week. They were very interested in bar billiards and had never seen a table before, and asked loads of questions, we gave them some coaching, taught them how to score and then played doubles.
They left the pub with a smile on their respective faces and we left the pub with an inner glow.

THAT is ONE of the reasons I play.

[BB Warrior]

I think that it is a great idea to find out why people enjoy playing, but would agree that there should be more choices than just 3...... :-/

For myself, I want to improve as a player and to enjoy myself...... yes, I want to win matches and trophies (both individually and for my team) but I also enjoy the "social" side of the game and to meet new people.

Playing in the Opens this year and also in 2 extra leagues has certainly done that.... and even bought love into my life! 8-) ;D :-*

So, while I could probably happily tick all 3 of the choices shown above...... I will also have to abstain for the time being! ;D

Thank you everyone so far for the feed back.

The reason I gave 3 options was to generalise the vote and then you can explain your reason for your vote, in a post.

Option 1 is "extreme"
Option 2 is "medium"
Option 3 is "light"

Just explain your answer afterwards.

So we already have some interesting points from Tommo, Davejones, Q, BB Warrior.
You don't have to vote however gives me an indication on how on a small scale you enjoy playing Bar Billiards. ;) :)

Well I think that the extent to which I enjoy my bar billiards would be 'extreme', but I couldn't vote for that line in case Sir KT thought I was after his no. 1 spot. ;D

I think the difference between us, Johnny, is that I do not enjoy stuffing the opposition by as many as possible (especially on the home table all the time) : I would get far more pleasure from being set a stiff target, which by playing out time I was just able to overhaul.

Brighton player Vince Watts sort of summed it up for me a while back.

A Bar Billiards match is an evening of having a laugh and a drink with friends, interupted by 20 minutes of playing a game.

Winning is OK but enjoying the experience is the main thing.

[bigtj]

Of course we all go onto to the table wanting to win our game and the match for our team, but it is not always the way you win but sometimes the way you loose with dignity.

I play to enjoy myself and even at this late stage in my playing career to better myself. Playing in the opens which I have no chance of winning, gives me the chance to improve, maybe take a scalp ot two as I do have thebelief in my game that on any given day I can play well enough to take top palyers out.

But I do think Reggies comments are very valid because at the end of the day I do go for the social side of things and do get great pleasue at watching the best perform at the highest level. Team bomding and friendship come top of the pile, do not get me wrong because those that know me will confirm I am very competitive in all I do.

Great to meet new people, extend friendships, and watch new players come through.

I am firmly in the BigTJ camp, with half a foot in the Regg3y camp. ;D
Only bit I didn't agree with was that the '20 minutes playing is incidental' - that's rather like the famous quote about the game of golf ruining a good walk. ;D

Best way I can sum it up for Johnny is that people of our respective counties are bound to view things slightly differently: Johnny is unquestionably already a 'big fish in a small pond'.
Whereas those who have answered you so far have played in leagues in Sussex, one of the strongest two counties. Without being unduly unkind to any of us, I would regard us as 'medium fish in a large pond'.

Aug 2, 2008 17:19:20 GMT tommo III said:

Best way I can sum it up for Johnny is that people of our respective counties are bound to view things slightly differently: Johnny is unquestionably already a 'big fish in a small pond'.
Whereas those who have answered you so far have played in leagues in Sussex, one of the strongest two counties. Without being unduly unkind to any of us, I would regard us as 'medium fish in a large pond'.

I'm like a Killer Shark in a goldfish bowl :D ;)

Honestly I would prefer to play in the Sussex/Brighton League. That is where a player improves to see the level of play you are capable at. Also I bet I would enjoy it more because I will have less moaners (which spoil the night).

I don't want to get people wrong here, I do enjoy the social side.

I do like seeing players and seeing them improve. Me and my dad have played with the Swan B captain for many years (friendly games) and we try and teach him everything we know. He has improved loads which is hugely rewarding.

Keep the answers coming, it's quite interesting to read!

[bigtj]

Always rewarding to see somebody improve, especially when you have had a hand in it.

Remember that Simon Tinto use to run coaching evenings in the Redhill area and many a player started out from that and also improved due to Simon putting something back into the game.

I would have been stuck as just another couple of grand player if it was not for the likes of Steve Mariner and Jim Millward at the Romans giving me advice on a Friday evening. Then the one and only Tupps giving advice how I could translate that coaching into confidence during a league match, in fact his advice led to me recording my first ever 10k.

Very relevant comment, especially as Simon is still approachable for the coaching master-classes now............

And the Sussex superstars that you mentioned have always been forthcoming with useful tips. And we are blessed even more now with Sir KT having moved to the county.

Aug 2, 2008 17:38:58 GMT @sithlord said:

I'm like a Killer Shark in a goldfish bowl :D ;)
Honestly I would prefer to play in the Sussex/Brighton League. That is where a player improves to see the level of play you are capable at. Also I bet I would enjoy it more because I will have less moaners (which spoil the night).

Barracuda Johnny ! ;D

You've taken my point aboard, which is that you must branch out to be able to reach the top. I know that you perform at the highest level in your league, but down here the only way to improve is to diversify. For instance, some players are content to stay in lower divisions which tend to have tables that are less playable than those at the higher level. They might enjoy being in their comfort zone, but the down side is that in doing so they are limiting their own potential.

[BB Warrior]

Aug 2, 2008 17:38:58 GMT @sithlord said:

Aug 2, 2008 17:19:20 GMT tommo III said:

Whereas those who have answered you so far have played in leagues in Sussex, one of the strongest two counties. Without being unduly unkind to any of us, I would regard us as 'medium fish in a large pond'.

Honestly I would prefer to play in the Sussex/Brighton League. That is where a player improves to see the level of play you are capable at. Also I bet I would enjoy it more because I will have less moaners (which spoil the night).

Very fair comment Tommo, although Sussex is made up of several ponds! ;D

In Mid-Sussex & Lewes Leagues, we would possibly be regarded as being among the bigger fishes..... whereas in Brighton & Worthing the standard is much higher in the top divisions and some of the really big fishes swim here. 8-)

But Johnny would still find his "moaners" even in the Brighton League where a lot of the lower division teams don't want to play against the top players....... despite getting the break against them home & away. :P ??? :-X

Personally, I think that playing against the best players and watching them play will improve me as a player, it is one of the main reasons that I am playing in the Opens this year which, in turn, has opened the door to making new friends around the country. ;D

Although I had played in one or two Opens previously, I didn't really join the circuit until three years ago - and recognise now that this had been a vital part missing from my game. (Like having a cake and leaving it un-iced ! ;D )

I've been trying to work on a few of my contemporaries from Horsham to enter - who would acquit themselves quite well - but so far it's fallen on deaf ears.

Expecting the Warrior to shoot up the rankings next season !

[JerseyLugs]

Being from a little rock like jersey I know that we don't have the same issues as regards travelling to matches although I feel at the higher level we still have the same reasons.

Personally, when I first started playing I looked up to both the good players in my team and the players I had to play against.
My main priority was to improve my own game to such a level that I would get a game every week. Once this was done I wanted to challenge my team mates and following on from this to challenge the best players in the island.
That has not changed to this day.
I still want to play the table out every time I pick up my cue because I feel that that is the whole point of the game.
It's not a matter of beating someone, although if players post a big score obviously you can only do your best, but if everytime you approach a table you endeavour to play it out, isn't that the whole reason we play!

Aug 3, 2008 20:46:09 GMT JerseyLugs said:

everytime you approach a table you endeavour to play it out, isn't that the whole reason we play!

Well, Lugs, yes that would be Plan A. And Plan B would be to finish with a five figure score. More often than not, though, I settle for Plan C or D ! ;)

[davejones]

Sorry Just got back from the Emirates Cup. What a fantastic day!
Arsenal beating Real Madrid. And Hamburg smashing Juventus. 3-0

And to cap it all, Gabriel Heinze and van Nistleroy getting booed for their ManUre connections!

*** LAST FEW POSTS WITH PUNS ABOUT FISHES HAVE BEEN TRANSFERRED TO QUIZ BOARD WHERE THEY HAVE PROMPTED A NEW QUIZ.*** Please resist the temptation to stray off topic, out of respect for the person who started a thread for a particular line of discussion. I am one of the guilty ones too, so apologies to Johnny. - tommo

[hon Vice President]

Aug 2, 2008 15:36:02 GMT @regg3y said:

Brighton player Vince Watts sort of summed it up for me a while back.

A Bar Billiards match is an evening of having a laugh and a drink with friends, interupted by 20 minutes of playing a game.

Winning is OK but enjoying the experience is the main thing.

about 80% with this view - with the rider that being part of a team, captaining a team which does well, and contributing to that success as an individual, don't half give one a buzz!!

I have played in and captained teams in West Sussex which have included some of the most gifted and dogged players out there; and loved it. It improved my game, and getting to drop Alan Shaw from the doubles every third week was fun too! (he's improved his doubles game league-wise of late you know)!

I have been a minnow captain in a team crammed with talent. I have also been a bigger fish in lower division teams and enjoyed the success of winning there too, helping with advice and support where I can. Above all though, it's the people. the friends, the rapport, the occasional scalps, the close games, the some-time frustration of being beaten by someone you tonked for years, who has had a sudden improvement; and shaking their hand afterwards then buting them a drink. I also freely admit that I have had seasons where I have good, a consistent performer as a player, but those were the ones which would get me wound up and grouchy when I lost - more so if I was trying to climb the averages and consistency tables.

Things have moved on now and personally, if I had to go out and play a team of Johnny's every week, I would give up. It isn't why I do it.

Right now, learning the 4-pin game means I am a newbie - and loving it! New people to meet, new tricks to learn. I have never hit a 20k break in the 3-pin game; not had a 20k game either. My game has peaked, on a good day I'll hit 10k, may even hit it all at once and that's that. I have trophies left in me; and am naturally competitive, but BB is a distraction, a hobby.

It alsways will be. Doesn't stop me from loving the game though.

No vote Johnny; not enough options.

[DA-DM]

my reasons for not voting.

To be World No.1 . nope,I am still (in my opinion) a learner/beginner of the game but I don't wanna be world no 1. (ladies no 1 maybe in a few years......)

Win a few trophies. again. nope. yes it would be nice ( I have a few mixed pairs runner-up and a division winners from a few years ago in Littlehampton & West Sussex), but it's not why I play.

Play a friendly knock about. again, again, nope. yes I go out to play and have a 'friendly' knock about, but playing in a team in a league (I have played in Littlehampton, West Sussex & Portsmouth), is about winning for your team, so although I go out for a friendly evening, for 20 minutes (or however long the bar) it's a battle (either against my opponent or the table itself if it's a quirky one) to see who is better on the day.

so, I go out to play a game I love, it has brought the man I love into my life, :-* ;) I have met lots of new friends (hello to all my new friends !!!) and I am learning to better my own game.

I enjoy watching the top players as well as the lower ones, and sometimes it's nice to see the underdog come through against a far superior player.

as an old mate of mine (Kieth mouncher) said "they are all beatable - except the good ones".......

my personal thought is that "even good players have bad days, and bad players have good ones".

Johnny -in reply to your "I enjoy the thrill of winning by a HUGE margin, scoring heavily and getting more consistant"
I would remind myself that it's not the winning, it's the taking part and doing the best you can, and take a small pleasure in seeing you taken down in a game purely because of your comment. - no offence meant to you personally, I would feel the same whoever said that.

Hear hear, DA-DM.

Learning how to be gracious in victory as well as in defeat is an important part of our game and that way you earn respect.

It was one of the first things I noticed when playing at county level - how totally lacking in arrogance most of the top players are.

[fazza]

"most"

Aug 4, 2008 13:36:06 GMT DA-DM said:

Johnny -in reply to your "I enjoy the thrill of winning by a HUGE margin, scoring heavily and getting more consistant"
I would remind myself that it's not the winning, it's the taking part and doing the best you can, and take a small pleasure in seeing you taken down in a game purely because of your comment. - no offence meant to you personally, I would feel the same whoever said that.

I just tend to take part and do the best I can at all times though. If someone played well against me I would shake there hand and buy them a drink. Honestly I have no problem with people beating me. I do learn more for the future thats for sure.

I got a message on the back of a picture given to me by my great uncle Mark Wildman, it said "Johnny best wishes and good luck in Bar Billiards".
It almost brings a tear to my eye that people moan when I try my hardest. So my reply is to stuff them more (more you moan the higher the break)!

Though this survey really has truely opened my eyes at what other people think. I have definatly got a better understanding now of other players mentality.

Please keep your opinions coming, they are interesting to read!

[Q]

The one thing I WILL add to this is to say "Thank you" to Johnny for bringing about this thread...
... It has at least sparked a nice, healthy, bar billiard debate. ;) ;D

Thanks Q :) ;)

I have just come to realise something tonight, like something twigged.

I make all this persona of being a "special one" and Future world No.1 to make Bar Billiards more interesting for myself. If I didn't have those jokes or hope then I am actually very bored with Bar Billiards.

Thats why it appeals at a wiser (therefore more mature) audience.

Mentality reading through these posts are shocking to me, I use to play to win thats it. Now I come to realise there is more to it then thrashing an opponent 10k or more.

I think what you lot are getting at is it's ok to win a game however don't try and thrash everybody (even those who have just started out).
Bar Billiards whether you like it or not is better suited to older people, no offence to anybody however it is more true. Being wise comes with age and unfortunatly I lack years on my age CV.

People enjoy beating me to wipe the smile off my face, fair enough I don't have a problem with that. I put myself in this position of arrogance it's down to me to get out. It may be now or it may be a few more years but I have a feeling it's coming and soon.
However I just have this vision that I will become very bored with playing if I had no fun messing about. Shame as it's a catch 22 situation. Something has to give though.

DA-DM hit the nail on the head, people will enjoy to see me knocked down a peg. hmm never looked at it like that.
I guess i'm still learning. ::)

I'm glad you've got something out of this, Johnny, that you think is beneficial.
It's worth considering that bar billiards is an amateur sport, not a cut-throat competition, and we have a very good community, with people willing to help each other out in times of need, and new friendships being forged by the week.

As regards playing someone weaker, it just isn't the done thing to rub someone's nose in it. We all have to start somewhere. Young Kev (BB Reaper) used to take some comprehensive beatings when he started out, but now the boot is on the other boot and he is dealing out thrashings of his own. Because he was willing to learn. and he does not have a big-headed bone in his body.

There is however someone I could name in our league (but won't) who thinks he knows it all already and has only been playing a year and has come from Pool. He managed to beat me on his own (difficult) top and stung me for an expensive drink. I also overheard him chatting at the bar, saying, "whatever sport I take up I just have to be the best." We shall see, but I can promise him that the next time I have to play him I shall be trying 200% ! ;)

[bigtj]

Go for it Tommo, no room for disrespect in any sport or life in general.

[BB Warrior]

Aug 5, 2008 0:26:01 GMT tommo III said:

There is however someone I could name in our league (but won't) who thinks he knows it all already and has only been playing a year and has come from Pool. He managed to beat me on his own (difficult) top and stung me for an expensive drink. I also overheard him chatting at the bar, saying, "whatever sport I take up I just have to be the best." We shall see, but I can promise him that the next time I have to play him I shall be trying 200% ! ;)

I'm pretty sure I know who you are talking about there Tommo and would agree that he is an arrogant little wotsit.....!! >:(

If it is the person I'm thinking of, I beat him 2-0 in the Mid-Sussex Singles last season. First game (his break) was close, about 7k to his 5.5k, second game I opened up with 6k and that destroyed his confidence and I ended up winning by about 8k. After the game he was almost lost for words about losing...... but to be fair to him, he didn't moan about it. 8-)

He does have ability and I think he would benefit from playing for a team with a few "older heads" in it to give him some guidance, sadly he won't get it where he is and I think he will be lost to the game as pool is his main game.... and he can get away with his attitude playing that. >:(

With regards to the subject of "winning by HUGE margins" and "stuff them even more when they moan" I do understand where Johnny is coming from....... but personally I don't subscribe to that against new players or people that I know are much weaker than I am.

In Open Tournaments and Interleague Matches, I will always try to play as well as I can and score as many points as possible, but in ordinary League Matches against someone that I would consider to be a weaker player, then I would normally try to do enough to win and then just enjoy the rest of the game.

It has proved to be a discussion point on a few occasions with my Mid-Sussex Captain at home matches where I have had a few opportunities to ram 10k plus past people but not taken them, but I remember in one game the pleasure my opponent took in hitting her highest score (about 2.5k) and first 1k+ break in a game with me still winning comfortably on about 6k.

That gave me far more enjoyment than hitting 10k+ as an "ego boost" and not giving her any chances to play.

At the end of the day, we need to give new / weaker players the chance to play and improve....... or the whole game will die. :'(

[Chunky Monkey]

Why Do I Play? Well I play for all three of the reasons above. Yes I would love to be Number 1. Who wouldn't? I feel i have the passion for it and competitiveness in me to be number 1. And i have come a very long way with huge help from Sir KT in my game, He has put him self out of his way to train and teach me, and for that i am very greatful, so yes to be number 1 is a goal not only for myself but to say thank you to him for everything he has done and to show him how far i have come in this game. I have come a long way in the game anyway because of him but there is still room for improvement, and all the time he is willing to teach i shall be listening.

I love the social side of the team games and have met some great friends playing the game and also it is where i have met Sandra, and couldn't imagine life without her.
I go out to win each game i play in but if it is not my night then so be it, as long as i have played to the best of my ability and had a good evening with a few laughs then i cant ask for more.