Deliberate foul?

[NigelS]

Not sure if this has been covered by the AEBBA rules, and I think similar scenarios have been discussed before, but I am not sure what the answer is so thought I might as well ask the other forum members if they had the answer.

In my quarter final against Richard yesterday he put a white ball (unintentionally) very close to the black peg with around 2 minutes left. I was already enough up on aggregate to win the match so at this stage the only chance Richard had of winning was me taking out the black peg. I cleared the other ball on the table, leaving me this one white near the black. Although it was tight I did have room to clear it and did so without too much difficulty.

BUT what would be the ruling if the ball was touching the black and impossible to hit away without taking the black peg out. I could have just potted a ball straight down the 50 hole, but is that not a deliberate foul? I could ‘try’ to roll dead weight up to the ball to at least be making a visible attempt at playing the ball but I could easily make sure I don’t reach it but at the same time making it very difficult for any ref to call it a deliberate miss. At any rate a genuine attempt to hit the ball would probably result in me losing the match so there is no incentive to play it.

Had this actually happened yesterday, I think I would if asked for a ruling before I played my shot and stopped the time. I would have probably asked the tournament director what would happen if I deliberately missed. Also if you deliberately miss and it is called a foul, do you lose the break, the leg or the match?

I think had the situation been reversed I would not have my opponent play the shot by the black peg and concede the match. I am not saying Richard should have done this yesterday as the ball was relatively easy to clear, and I am not saying I would have made that decision in the heat of the moment either- just on reflection I wouldn’t like to win a match in such a way.

I would be interested to hear what others would do

Nige,

I had a similar situation against Doug Dawson at The 3 Horseshoes last year. The ball was just touching the black peg but to one side. To hit the ball going up the table, it looked that the peg would fall or if I tried split to the ball to the side then the object ball would follow through to the peg. The bar had dropped so I had some time to think about my options and chose to clip the ball. I pegged it (of course I did, it's me we are talking about) and had the usual grief from my team mates. On reflection I should have tried to go across the table but didn't think of it.

I think that if a ball is deemed by the scorer or ref and the two team captains, to be un-playable without playing a foul shot then it should be removed at the end of the break in play.

Like Regg3y I've had similar which I'll describe in a minute; and I agree that the ball should come away at the end of the player's go but only if the ball is actually touching. I know the playing rule says 'leaning' but under the laws of physics, if two objects are touching they are actually leaning towards each other (if only by 0.000000000%).

My 'incident' was of my own making, and happened when I was a relative youngster in the 1970s. Horsham A were playing Littlehampton at the Coot and to my own as well as everyone else's amazement I had 5000 already on the scoreboard and another 5000 going on a break. But sh!t happens (well it always used to for me, anyway) and I had a ball swing on the 50 and leave itself immediately behind the 200 hole (the other side from the black). I couldn't do a straight shot, and wanted to hold my 5k, so I decided to play off the side cush just to touch and hold. But the Coot had a bouncy cush and my cue ball made for the 200 hole without touching the ball at first, and then rimmed a couple of times before leaping back out and taking out the black. Not only break lost, but total score as well, and to add to my misery the bar went and Bill Sensier, sporting a huge grin, finished off the last few balls to win by a couple of hundred !

So my answer to Nigel is, you play at it but give it a wide berth (like I wish I had !) without making it too obvious. And as many times as you need to do it. Remember, your opponent faces the same shot each time in between, so the scorer can't really discriminate against one or the other of you by calling a professional foul.

[Richard]

Hi Nige

Got you in a right pickle there nearly.

If you had played it and it had gone down I would have conceded.

Best thing was the scorer gave me a telling off as she thought I had done it on purpose. I wish I could be that accurate !!

[bigtj]

Scorer obviously did not know you Richard as hard to be that accurate with the eyes shut.

Had a funny situation when playing at home a couple of weeks ago.

A white ball was sitting behind the 10 hole, our team player played for it and missed.

What happened next shocked us all :o

The opponent whacked the ball, resulting in a foul shot. As he walked away he said "well I thought the last shot you (My team mate) played was a deliberate foul".
:o :o

The referee just looked on in amazment, I couldn't believe he made such a stupid comment.
lol ;D

Here in Cambridgeshire their is no rule on deliberate misses. So the claim he made (even though untrue) was still a non-legitamate arguement.

Having a rule to say:

It is up to the referee's discretion to determine a deliberate miss is in my opinion not a good one. If a player roles the ball against the baulk line then fair enough, however if a player misses a ball behind the black peg, how can you say it's a deliberate miss.

If a rule does exist it should have specific definitions to a deliberate foul. As some genuine shots (like a fortnight ago) can be mistaken.