A Little Help Required

[The Chubbster™]

Hi everyone, I'm postponing my General Discussion retirement just a little longer :) :) :)

I need a quick pointer in the right direction. Do we have, or know of any Bar Billiards historians? I'm looking for people knowledgeable about the game overall, how it evolved into what it was today, where it's origins came from etc. I have a few bits from the Internet but not that much.

If someone knows a lot about this, or who does, please could you point me in there direction.

Many thanks in advance.

Sounds to me like you need to brush up on our Ancestry/History Board: ;D

barbilliards.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=privateh

Also, a simple Google of Bar Billiards, choose 'Wikipedia', and there's a reasonably accurate description of the game's origins.

For how it started off in Sussex, I can highly recommend the book "Knight of the Whistle" by the late Ralph Tarratt of Table Tables and father of Rod.

............and here's a thread where certain diligent individuals performed some research for Inapub Magazine:

barbilliards.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=11855&page=1

[bigjimsilverfox]

Jan 28, 2013 13:50:07 GMT tommo III said:

Sounds to me like you need to brush up on our Ancestry/History Board: ;D

barbilliards.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=privateh

Also, a simple Google of Bar Billiards, choose 'Wikipedia', and there's a reasonably accurate description of the game's origins.

For how it started off in Sussex, I can highly recommend the book "Knights of the Whistle" by the late Ralph Tarratt of Table Tables and father of Rod.

available on amazon @ £0.99 bargain ;)

[Chris_Sav]

The James Masters Site has the most comprehensive history that I know of.

Billard Russe (Russian Billiards) goes back far earlier than Bar Billiards. The Billard Russe tables are identical to the narrow Sams tables on with one less hole. Why our Jelkes tables were made to different dimensions appears lost in history.


Sav

[The Chubbster™]

I should get of my backside and look around a bit more!

Thanks guys :)

[The Chubbster™]

Sorry guys I should have clarified a little what I was looking for.

Obviously I have the stuff on wiki and the few websites that come up in goggle. The thread on this forum was also very helpful and I had not spotted that before. I'll probably get that book as well.

I was wondering if there was anyone in particular who is a Bar Billiards "historian" so to speak. Someone who's looked into this before and has a good knowledge of the origins of the game and how it became what it is today.

There are a few things I would be really interested to know. For example, what year was the AEBBA association formed and how did that come about? Who was it's first Secretary etc and what was the first national tournament ever held.

I can of course try and peice this together using the bits and peices we have, but wondered if thee was anyone in particular who had looked into this before me.

Hope that makes sense :)

[Chris_Sav]

I'm very interested in what you find Glen.

I've never seen any form of history in that line. One name that springs to mind is Charlie Gildersleeve, apart from that Tarratts or Ken Hussey if obtainable.

Sav

Jan 29, 2013 16:10:14 GMT Chris_Sav said:

I'm very interested in what you find Glen.
I've never seen any form of history in that line. One name that springs to mind is Charlie Gildersleeve.
Sav

Glenn,
I'm not sure how complete your jigsaw of the game's history would be at this stage.

Have you exhausted, for instance, everything that the AEBBA website can offer you?

We have this, for instance, on the County Championships:
www.aebba.org.uk/InterCounties/history.shtml
www.aebba.org.uk/InterCounties_ladies/history.shtml

There's also this comprehensive history on the Internationals:
www.aebba.org.uk/internationals/international.shtml

And these are just examples......

We don't purport to know the full sum total of the game's early history, founder members of the very first leagues would be centenarians - or more likely deceased - by now.

There are however many like myself, who have a deep care for the history of our own leagues and have committed everything that is known on to pages of websites: 30 years worth can be found on Mid Sussex's, and 40 or more years worth on Horsham's and on Billingshurst's. (And that's just speaking for myself, I know Brighton and Lewes can trace back a long way, too.)

Most of those such people 'in the know' would probably be members of this Forum.

Like Sav, I would be interested in any additional findings you can come up with on the 1930s/40s/50s era. And with your permission we would include same in our websites.

[The Chubbster™]

Thanks guys.

Yes I was browsing those pages this evening Tommo, very interesting stuff. It's hard to say what I'm looking for at the moment, but things will probably become clear soon.

I'll be in touch via a PM as it would be helpful to get some "local" knowledge so to speak to slowly piece together a better overall history of the game since about the 30's. Nothing I have seen so far has gone back further than that. I guess I'm just looking for an overall picture of how the game developed in this country, one that is deeper than what is avalible on wiki etc. I think it's going to be a process of taking certain peoples individual knowledge and trying to build and overall picture from that.

Jan 30, 2013 0:35:50 GMT The Chubbster™ said:

I'll be in touch via a PM

Yes, PM me with any specifics you think I can help you with.
I could also PM you some quotes from the book which throw some light on the early days.
1934 is when it all started.

tommo

[jordans]

Charlie Gildersleeve has been our Secretary in Wycombe for about 42/43 years now, and was playing for years before that (and still is in his late 80's!!).  He is always talking about really old stuff, AGM's from years ago, Inter Area games etc, so if you want his email address, PM me and I can give it to you.  Also Ray Hussey, Ken's brother, is still playing, so if you want to contact Ken, I can also get his contact details.

Dawn.

[The Chubbster™]

That would be wonderful Dawn. Yes if they don't mind me having there contact details, I will gladly contact them at some point soon in my "quest" for knowledge.

Thanks in advance :)

I can certainly endorse Charlie Guidersleeve as an important source of information: he was very forthcoming about the venues past and present in the High Wycombe League when I tackled him about them at Bucks Open a couple of years ago.

This chap here from Berks is another luminary:
www.getreading.co.uk/sport/bar_sports/s/2108355_wheeler_puts_his_bar_billiards_cue_away_for_the_last_time

He was the guy who introduced the game to South Yorkshire (Doncaster area) which in turn generated TV interest (Indoor League with Freddie Truman).

KT is the best person to ask about when there was a Hertfordshire county side competing nationally.

Sav obviously can advise on "all things Kent".

For Oxford, despite his tender age, Milko has been around for donkey's years. ;D

The two Chrisses for Hants; Keith MacDonald for Cambs; Simon Tinto for Surrey.

Fazza would have a comprehensive knowledge of Northants history - but he upped sticks....I suppose the Colemanator is the best bet now.

Which leaves Sussex........
A sort of revolution happened around 1990 when the 'old guard' were swept away. The SCBBA nearly went out of existence when a Secretary could not be found, and eventually Sheila O'Brien came to the rescue, since when it has grown in strength through the efforts of (in turn) Steve Mariner, Mark James, Alan Messer, Jean Brackenridge and Nigel Senior. Add Dave Jones, Tony Jenner and Dave Ingram to the mix and the current crop of administrators could hardly be bettered.

I suppose I must count as one of the surviving relics from pre-1990 when I was vice-Chairman under John Turner and then Peter McCallum. Many of the luminaries of that time are no longer with us (Charlie Cordery, Norman Luxford, Don Climpson) but John and Peter are still around, along with Tim Peacock of Mid Sussex - and of course Dave Hampton. These, along with Rod Tarratt, would be the guys in the know.